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Thread: our seniors

  1. #1
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    our seniors

    I have been raised to respect/listen to older people.
    You know .. the once that complain about their retirement pay, Medicare and costs of living for senior citizens.
    Yup, those people that blow their Monthly checks at Blackhawk while complaining that they can't affot a new walker.

    Anyhow I find that actually these people know squat about arms, even the ww2 vets.
    So me and my 2 year old are heading to king soopers at northglenn location.
    As we pass a older gentlemen I took note of his veteran hat. I greeted him and went on.
    Something about the way he ignored me made me look back. And this man was yelling into his phone .. I pretty sure I heard the word gun and for sure that " he has a baby". He had to repeat him self because he had trouble hanging on to his walker and yelling into his phone. Now being a vet myself I have the utmost respect for these people but this guy.
    But God knows what else he said, this very well could have ended up with me being executed by the police.

    This isn't the first time a senior citizen made a reaction, bout a week ago a senior couple was standing next to me at Wendy's
    and the lady made remarks about my boy being cute .. till she seen my pistol then she hung in to her husband arm so tight you'd think the great flood was coming.
    Going back to veterans ... I know some are idiots, my work partner a navy veterans is a standup anti gunner.
    He is absolutely against "anyone going to the gun store and buying a fully automatic weapon".
    On a happier note, I did have a young man also at kings thank me for carrying and wished me a safe day.

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    It used to be said that people could be expected to "Get Older and Wiser" as they age. Nowadays, it's become just "Getting Older but None the Wiser." Similar to the "Common Sense isn't common anymore" we also hear -- and so true as well.

    Those old guys (I'm one, too, so I'm not "name-calling" if you will) are so CLUELESS to the fact that ANYONE (even a kid, let alone criminals) could knock them over in their "stroller" and take everything they have -- including their cell phone (!) AND stroller (!!) -- because they CAN"T defend themselves whatsoever...except maybe hurl harsh words at an attacker (before being being stomped into unconsciousness), or, yell into their cell phone calling the police, i.e., desperately seeking SOMEONE ELSE to help them (pathetic), since THEY personally can't.

    Lots of veterans, even combat vets, don't like guns and won't carry them. These guys (or gals nowadays) didn't learn jack in combat, as violence really DOES solve problems (like it or not). Not sure how many are like that vs. those who DO know better and DO carry, but it would be an interesting statistic. Whatever, at least THIS combat vet (Yours Truly) carries...always.

    I was in a Walmart some time back, and in the checkout line a grandpa (I guess) was with his 2 grandkids (I guess). He seemed to be giving me some disapproving looks, but I wasn't sure. Then he asked me, "Why do you need a gun inside a Walmart?" I could see this was one of the clueless/na´ve people who (apparently) don't even realize THEY are USDA Choice Crime Victims. I was thinking that were *I* a criminal, I EASILY could beat "grandpa" senseless, and/or kidnap his grandkids (or worse) -- either right there in the store or out in the parking lot -- and he could do NOTHING about it. Doesn't he know he can't be duking-it-out anymore @ his age? Even if he could still do so vs. ONE attacker, how about 2 or 3? What if they were armed (bat/knife/gun)? How does grandpa respond then?

    Well, grandpa "responds" by becoming a victim and will be on the local TV news @ 6. And at the very least, his traumatized grandkids will witness it all. Sad...

    But that's the reality and those are the facts. Even if grandpa didn't (or want to) know that...

    IMO, it's just FINE if a person (ESPECIALLY vets) is anti-gun and refuses to carry -- it's HIS or HER life (so let them receive the consequences of their choice: Life or death) -- but what about those OTHERS he/she is responsible for, like their family's safety? Why should kids or grandkids be UNprotected victims-waiting-to-happen (kids can't legally carry at their age, even SMART kids who KNOW they should be protecting themselves) because of a clueless/na´ve mother/father, who are SUPPOSED to protect them, but can't/won't because they hold anti-gun opinions? How is "holding the moral high ground" (as they think is true) REALLY going to help them or their family when a criminal attack occurs?

    It ain't.

    And how are the parents going to feel AFTER the tragic event (if they survive)...too late to be sorry then, yes?

    Or in this particular incident, a disapproving yet completely helpless grandpa out with his grandkids one afternoon: HE is their protector, but he can't -- or won't (which is far worse). We all know it's likely that clueless grandpa SURE WOULD die for his grandkids trying to protect them, but how is THAT going to help...really? Why is it necessary to die? Or even be injured/wounded? Do the grandkids REALLY have to lose their grandpa? Why not be a bit smarter and be armed so you can defend yourself AND your grandkids without the likely tragic results from being UNarmed? Who wants to be at the "mercy" of some criminal(s), where THEY say what goes?

    So what can I say about grown people -- adults, and especially Senior Citizens -- who SHOULD know better but are so na´ve and clueless at such an advanced age. HTH did they ever make it as far in life as they have?

    By mere luck I guess...but they can only HOPE their lucky streak continues, as HOPE is all they have going for them.

    I prefer something more concrete -- something in cold steel, like a firearm (a knife second)...

    Still, it DOES bother me seeing so many families out there HOPING (I guess) nothing will happen to them (or maybe not giving it ANY thought at all) when anything CAN happen at ANY time, yet most likely (given carrying statistics) MOST of the adults of those families are unarmed and have no real way to defend themselves, let alone their "charges" -- their families.

    ...and I think THAT should be criminal negligence at the very least!

    Of course, legally it isn't a crime -- parents/grandparents aren't REQUIRED to "Protect & Serve" their own -- but morally they sure are EXPECTED to.

    And nowadays, the best tool we have for self-defense technology-wise is a firearm. Like it or not, that's just a simple fact of life...despite any disapproving looks or comments to the contrary from "spectators" while OC-ing out in public.
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 08-29-2014 at 02:46 AM.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    forgot..

    I did about an hour shopping no police made contact ,but when leaving I noticed 1 cruiser parked next KS.

  4. #4
    Regular Member XD40sc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukaszu View Post
    I have been raised to respect/listen to older people.
    You know .. the once that complain about their retirement pay, Medicare and costs of living for senior citizens.
    Yup, those people that blow their Monthly checks at Blackhawk while complaining that they can't affot a new walker.
    Been to a gun store or range lately? Gray or no hair is the dominate hair color you will see. You too will be old one day, if you're lucky.

    Nor will you hear me complaining about not being able to afford stuff, I want it, I buy it.

  5. #5
    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
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    I have noticed that the elderly are the most opposed to anything. Guns, martial arts, asians, music, motorcycles, black people, cars, football, boxing...you name it.



    When you get old, you start to **** your pants again and it happens real suddenly or sometimes kind of slow so you don't know its happening. They blame the mess in their pants on the gun because its better than acknowledging you need a more absorbent diaper. This is why they're cranky.
    Last edited by wimwag; 08-30-2014 at 04:05 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    I resemble most (all?) of the remarks here.

    Too close to "elderly bashing" to let stand.

    Locked it.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.ö Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  7. #7
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I resemble most (all?) of the remarks here.

    Too close to "elderly bashing" to let stand.

    Locked it.
    Change of heart...........for now.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.ö Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukaszu View Post
    I have been raised to respect/listen to older people.

    Anyhow I find that actually these people know squat about arms, even the ww2 vets.

    Now being a vet myself I have the utmost respect for these people but this guy.

    Going back to veterans ... I know some are idiots, my work partner a navy veterans is a standup anti gunner. He is absolutely against "anyone going to the gun store and buying a fully automatic weapon".

    On a happier note, I did have a young man also at kings thank me for carrying and wished me a safe day.
    One Veteran to another: I may only have arrived at the tender age of 51, but I'm sporting a full head of gray hair!

    Meanwhile, throughout the rest of the U.S. Population:

    Median age: total: 37.6 years
    male: 36.3 years
    female: 39 years (2014 est.)

    I'm but a youngster in my family. My older Brother CCs My youngest Uncle (a Veteran) is 71, and he's carried firearms all his life. My Dad (a Veteran) is 80, and he and my Uncle taught me how to shoot when I was nine, hence my username. Another Uncle (a Veteran) would have been 78, but he passed away on his Harley. My oldest Uncle is 84, and he still owns firearms. My grandfather passed away when he was 96, and didn't give up his firearms until he was 92, when he entered an assisted living facility.

    lukaszu, it doesn't appear you've been meeting the right kind of old people! Or Veterans.

    Rest assured, many adults on the high side of 37.6 years committed to our Constitutional right to keep and bear arms, including veterans. Not all older people or veterans support our right to keep and bear arms. However, a number of polls have have shown that most adults of all ages support our right to keep and bear arms.

    In closing, I'd like to say of the dozen Meet and Greets I've attended here in Colorado, the attendees come from all ages, and we have more Veterans attending on a percentage basis than exist in the general population.
    Last edited by since9; 09-04-2014 at 12:29 PM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  9. #9
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I resemble most (all?) of the remarks here.

    Too close to "elderly bashing" to let stand.

    Locked it.
    Howdy Pard!
    Yeah, thanks for re-opening the thread, and I agree that it really is close to being discriminatory.
    Can't tar the whole generation with the same brush, and I agree.

    I just qualified for Medicare the first of August. I don't use a walker, and have an extremely active life as a fugitive recovery agent.
    I also had my first colonoscopy, welcome to Medicare physical, and blood work. Turns out I am outrageously healthy, and note there are plenty of folks
    younger than myself who don't know squat about firearms.
    My only complaint is having enough money to buy more firearms, but that's another discussion, and isn't because I spend any time or money in Blackhawk.

    So, given that preamble, I carry open, even in Denver. I have had support from cops over there, but also had one or two that berated me until I covered the gun.

    Funny thing is, I have had cops ask if I have a permit in areas where OC is perfvectly legal.
    My response is, "What kind of permit are you referring to?"

    Problem is, many cops think the conceal carry permit is a weapons permit.
    It isn't. It is a concealed handgun permit. Simple as that. Take yours out (assuming you have one) and check.
    When I explain that you don't need a permit to open carry, they are sometimes taken aback.

    The point is, we need to educate everybody (sometimes cops too) we interface with folks about open carry, because the fact of the matter is...

    Most of our fellow Coloradans have no freaking idea tht OC is legal.
    And age doesn't matter in the level of ignorance involved.

    and the one I like best comes when I carry my 1911.
    "Do you know the hammer on that thing is cocked?"
    And that, too, gives me an opportunity to educate somebody.

    Point being, if we want to have the freedom to open carry, we also must accept some responsibility to educate those that find the practice objectionable
    because they don't understand our freedom yet. It don't matter how young they are. I've had far more kids make an issue of my firearm than greys.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Last edited by M-Taliesin; 09-24-2014 at 08:07 AM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    At the gun show here, I notice folks of all ages.

    Sorry you had that incident, glad nothing came of it.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    I'm old. Get used to it.

    The word "curmudgeon" has my picture next to it in the dictionary. It's one of those jobs that few folks are willing to take - just be glad someone stepped up to the plate.

    One of the biggest reason old folks who don't know squat about __ stand out in a crowd is because knowing about __ is all too often necessary in order to get to be old.

    Being old makes me entitled to whine and complain about just about everything - just like being a hoplophobic soccer mom or a member of the 99% entitles a person to whine and complain. What most folks forget is that usually the only group you need to pay attention to when they are whining and complaining is babies because they are the only ones without the capacity to help themselves. (And yes, babies do sometimes whine and complain just because they want attention. I'm told that they are cute and that is what saves them from being dropped off in a convenient clearing for the wolves to snack on. The rest of the whiners and complainers are not so cute.)

    But getting back on track - since us oulde phartes so often slip the tracks - did you have a voice recorder going while the old geezer was having his apoplectic fit? Some of us who have managed to live to be this old have learned that having an operating voice recorder when you leave the house is as important as having your handgun in its holster when you leave the house. And we pass that "wisdom" down to the folks who are not yet this old in the hopes that it will help them to become this old.

    Now pull your pants up over your hips and get off my lawn!

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    ....

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    I'm old. Get used to it.

    The word "curmudgeon" has my picture next to it in the dictionary. It's one of those jobs that few folks are willing to take - just be glad someone stepped up to the plate.

    One of the biggest reason old folks who don't know squat about __ stand out in a crowd is because knowing about __ is all too often necessary in order to get to be old.

    Being old makes me entitled to whine and complain about just about everything - just like being a hoplophobic soccer mom or a member of the 99% entitles a person to whine and complain. What most folks forget is that usually the only group you need to pay attention to when they are whining and complaining is babies because they are the only ones without the capacity to help themselves. (And yes, babies do sometimes whine and complain just because they want attention. I'm told that they are cute and that is what saves them from being dropped off in a convenient clearing for the wolves to snack on. The rest of the whiners and complainers are not so cute.)

    But getting back on track - since us oulde phartes so often slip the tracks - did you have a voice recorder going while the old geezer was having his apoplectic fit? Some of us who have managed to live to be this old have learned that having an operating voice recorder when you leave the house is as important as having your handgun in its holster when you leave the house. And we pass that "wisdom" down to the folks who are not yet this old in the hopes that it will help them to become this old.

    Now pull your pants up over your hips and get off my lawn!

    stay safe.
    No, no VR and I dint think it would have made a difference.
    My original rant wasn't just about old people it was more about how I'm disappointed about the lack of knowledge... I mean this fella must have been around 90. My parents always told me that when a older person speaks you listen because they are wise and have life experience. I'm sure that some are awesome unfortunately the few iv met are anything but.
    O and I'm 39

  13. #13
    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukaszu View Post
    SNIP...
    Anyhow I find that actually these people know squat about arms, even the ww2 vets.
    SNIP...

    This isn't the first time a senior citizen made a reaction, bout a week ago a senior couple was standing next to me at Wendy's
    and the lady made remarks about my boy being cute .. till she seen my pistol then she hung in to her husband arm so tight you'd think the great flood was coming.
    Going back to veterans ... I know some are idiots, my work partner a navy veterans is a standup anti gunner.
    He is absolutely against "anyone going to the gun store and buying a fully automatic weapon".
    On a happier note, I did have a young man also at kings thank me for carrying and wished me a safe day.
    I think I know what you meant to convey, even if your post initially seemed of the "wide brush" variety. Just as with all groups, there are those that are just a bit nutty; I'd say it is always the extremists in each group which define the group to the uninformed (think "stereotypes").

    In my experience, the older folks generally don't say anything to me other than "Thank you young man"; whether they are appreciative of me holding the door (which I do regardless of age) and don't feel threatened by my sidearm or simply do not see my sidearm (seems most people are oblivious to their surroundings), I do not know for sure.

    As to the "fully automatic weapon" remark: you can't fix stupid, and it seems it was a preexisting condition.

    Quote Originally Posted by cloudcroft View Post
    It used to be said that people could be expected to "Get Older and Wiser" as they age. Nowadays, it's become just "Getting Older but None the Wiser." Similar to the "Common Sense isn't common anymore" we also hear -- and so true as well.

    SNIP...
    Why should kids or grandkids be UNprotected victims-waiting-to-happen (kids can't legally carry at their age, even SMART kids who KNOW they should be protecting themselves) because of a clueless/na´ve mother/father, who are SUPPOSED to protect them, but can't/won't because they hold anti-gun opinions? How is "holding the moral high ground" (as they think is true) REALLY going to help them or their family when a criminal attack occurs?
    The way I've heard it is "With age comes wisdom, but sometimes age comes alone" - Oscar Wilde

    In regards to taking care of the little ones, I have to say the strongest criticism I've heard yet came from my mother:
    She said something to the effect of "A true mother will do everything she can to protect her children at all costs; some women call themselves mothers giving us (real mothers) a bad name. Do what you want to the mother, but don't even put a finger on her kids."
    It stung me, and she said it in a soft voice.

    Quote Originally Posted by cloudcroft View Post
    And how are the parents going to feel AFTER the tragic event (if they survive)...too late to be sorry then, yes?
    The "mainstream" media only likes to show those who've somehow managed to put their heads further into the ground by blaming an inanimate object for the actions of a murderer, further perpetuating the "victim" image. THAT, other than the death of innocents who couldn't/didn't know better (children), is the greatest tragedy.
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 09-25-2014 at 03:22 AM.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    ôLife, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.ö - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy Pard!
    Yeah, thanks for re-opening the thread, and I agree that it really is close to being discriminatory.
    Can't tar the whole generation with the same brush, and I agree.

    I just qualified for Medicare the first of August. I don't use a walker, and have an extremely active life as a fugitive recovery agent.
    I also had my first colonoscopy, welcome to Medicare physical, and blood work. Turns out I am outrageously healthy, and note there are plenty of folks
    younger than myself who don't know squat about firearms.
    My only complaint is having enough money to buy more firearms, but that's another discussion, and isn't because I spend any time or money in Blackhawk.

    So, given that preamble, I carry open, even in Denver. I have had support from cops over there, but also had one or two that berated me until I covered the gun.

    Funny thing is, I have had cops ask if I have a permit in areas where OC is perfvectly legal.
    My response is, "What kind of permit are you referring to?"

    Problem is, many cops think the conceal carry permit is a weapons permit.
    It isn't. It is a concealed handgun permit. Simple as that. Take yours out (assuming you have one) and check.
    When I explain that you don't need a permit to open carry, they are sometimes taken aback.

    The point is, we need to educate everybody (sometimes cops too) we interface with folks about open carry, because the fact of the matter is...

    Most of our fellow Coloradans have no freaking idea tht OC is legal.
    And age doesn't matter in the level of ignorance involved.

    and the one I like best comes when I carry my 1911.
    "Do you know the hammer on that thing is cocked?"
    And that, too, gives me an opportunity to educate somebody.

    Point being, if we want to have the freedom to open carry, we also must accept some responsibility to educate those that find the practice objectionable
    because they don't understand our freedom yet. It don't matter how young they are. I've had far more kids make an issue of my firearm than greys.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Outstanding post, Mel. I sent the part about "many cops think the conceal carry permit is a weapons permit" to my contacts in the Colorado Springs Police Department for their review. While I'm quite sure you meant "other than the Colorado Springs Police Department," perhaps they just need reminding.

    I think they're up to speed, though. When I went through the Citizens Academy, I was pleasantly surprised by just how up to speed they really are.

    From what I gather, though, the majority of these issues arise from both backwater and urban departments, those who don't think the law applies to them, and those who don't think the law applies to them. When they realize they're charged with the responsibility of upholding the law, and that their citizens will hit the eject button in a heartbeat if they're not, they either come around or self-destruct.

    In the mere five years since I touched down here in Colorado, I've seen both.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  15. #15
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy Pard!
    snip...

    So, given that preamble, I carry open, even in Denver. I have had support from cops over there, but also had one or two that berated me until I covered the gun.

    snip...

    M-Taliesin
    a query, M, since you are a professed bounty hunter, as you identified in a forum post on 08-08-12 at 09:46 pm; you further professed to this forum's membership on 10-03-2013, 08:6 am: quote " Oh, and lest I forget.... I OC in Denver frequently, often in the company of cops. unquote.

    to assure a viable sense of propriety, you did caveat the last referenced quote with: quote Would I recommend anybody OC in City and County of Denver? NO! I do it, and take my own chances. You do it at your own risk, bearing in mind: IANAL! unquote

    i believe you have the 'support' to violate the law as you have bounty hunter credentials to present to the good LEs who might run into you and your law breaking OC ways in those areas of Colorado which flat out state no OC'g allowed..

    it just befuddles me why you consistently and steadfastly insist on making statements that appear you are walking just over on the legal OC edge yet under scrutiny you, due to your affiliation through your occupation are considered by LEs as one of the ancillary 'boys in blue' and what you are presenting out here is nothing but bravado!!

    JQP could not get away with the OC antics you have pulled and continue to profess to do with impunity because of your credentials.

    BTW, welcome back from your self imposed exile, (guess your new forum association you bragged about didn't work out so well , huh?) but do everyone a favor, could you at least cease advocating those OC activities you do under the guise of your credentials which are misleading to the average forum reader who believes they should try it 'cuz you did and yet might fall short during their encounter with LEs?

    Allāhu Akbar

    ipse
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  16. #16
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    Allāhu Akbar

    ipse
    Howdy Chum!
    Your close tells me everything I need to know about you, so I won't bother with a rebuttal.
    I've noticed you present yourself as you do, and likely alienate more people against our 2nd Amendment rights than anybody else on this forum.

    Have fun with that.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  17. #17
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    snip...

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    quote from wiki: A blessing (also used to refer to bestowing of such) is the infusion of something with holiness, spiritual redemption, divine will, or one's hope or approval.unquote

    as i am sure your closing reflects the same sentiment as mine...

    truly not even a good deflection attempt mel...and to be honest i expected a response with a little less stereotypical rhetoric as well as something which doesn't present your closed mindedness to others beliefs.

    btw my 2a efforts along with my critical thinking skills are splendid thanks for asking...how's your portrayal of walking the OC'g edge w/the boys in blue and your credentials going mel?

    Allāhu Akbar

    ipse

    addenum to since 9 sure you wish to advertise mel walks the OC edge after learning he does so apparently with his occupations credentials in hand and in the company of LEs as an ancillary 'boy in blue
    Last edited by solus; 09-30-2014 at 10:56 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukaszu View Post
    I have been raised to respect/listen to older people.
    ...
    Anyhow I find that actually these people know squat about arms, even the ww2 vets.
    .....
    This isn't the first time a senior citizen made a reaction, bout a week ago a senior couple was standing next to me at Wendy's
    and the lady made remarks about my boy being cute .. till she seen my pistol then she hung in to her husband arm so tight you'd think the great flood was coming.
    I wonder if they are that aware the world has changed - more lawlessness, less non-islamic religion in US, certain cultural rot devalues sensitivity of human life, etc.
    Reminds me of 'Being There' movie w Peter Sellers when he's kicked out of the house and when confronted by thugs he clicks the TV changer at them....
    Also, just because you get old, your basic personality doesn't change, and while you might learn from a long life, to paraphrase HAL 'your mind is going....Dave'....
    ôMen live without other security than what their own strength and their own invention shall furnish them"
    -Thomas Hobbes 1651

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    addenum to since 9 sure you wish to advertise mel walks the OC edge after learning he does so apparently with his occupations credentials in hand and in the company of LEs as an ancillary 'boy in blue
    I've zero wish to advertise such a thing, solus. My query to the locals was complete stripped of identity. I was merely curious with respect to whether or not the Denver PD had changed their tune. I don't know anyone in the Denver PD. I do know folks in the local PD, so I asked them, knowing quite well they would know what Denver is doing or not. Still haven't heard back from them, other than a "Curious - I'll ask."

    I said that was an outstanding post by Mel, and I meant it.

    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    (to solus) I've noticed you present yourself as you do, and likely alienate more people against our 2nd Amendment rights than anybody else on this forum.

    Have fun with that.
    I concur with your sentiments on both counts.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  20. #20
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    shame individuals will pursue their perception of right through espousing and articulating a viable opinion, whether it be concerning religion, or liberty, or (fill in your own pursuit) as long as they believe the perception applies to similar like minded folk, then all is right in their world.

    i find it fascinating as well as surprising how quickly that articulated opinion is diminished to null by the ability of someone to push the right button(s) through words or actions as well as to push self professing individuals out of their comfort zone by some who espouses the same principle, yet utilizing a different set of words. watching the individual(s) retreat into their learned closed minded prejudice, thus showing these individuals in their true light, of only supporting whatever right they are espousing is apparently to only an elite group of people the individual believes they need to obtain recognition.

    It wasn't argued into you and can't be argued out of you.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  21. #21
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    Many old folks think that only the gov't should have guns ... 'cause they re scared. But what's to be scared of? You are already close to death's door, why worry?

    The ancient Egyptians median life was 40 .. anything over that is just gravy IMO.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Many old folks...
    What's your definition of "old?"

    You are already close to death's door...
    That varies greatly from person to person. I ran an outdoor adventure group for the first three years into my retirement. My oldest hiker, who made it up the 13-mile, 7,000+ vertical from 6,500 to 14,15 feet top of Pikes Peak, was 78. Hardly "close to death's door," wouldn't you say?

    The ancient Egyptians median life was 40 .. anything over that is just gravy IMO.
    All "median age" figures include infant mortality, which greatly skews the results. The correct approach is to find the median age. That age more accurately reflects how old people can expect to life if they survive childhood. That age has actually been nearly constant throughout the last 2,000 years, as this article clearly explains. It even uses your Egyptian example as evidence of the myth:

    An article on Egyptian pyramid builders in the November 2001 issue of "National Geographic" noted, "Despite the availability of medical care the workers' lives were short. On average a man lived 40 to 45 years, a woman 30 to 35."

    It continues:

    Again, the high infant mortality rate skews the "life expectancy" dramatically downward. If a couple has two children and one of them dies in childbirth while the other lives to be 90, stating that on average the couple's children lived to be 45 is statistically accurate but meaningless.

    And finally, it reveals the average age we've enjoyed for the last 2,000 years:

    When Socrates died at the age of 70 around 399 B.C., he did not die of old age but instead by execution. It is ironic that ancient Greeks lived into their 70s and older, while more than 2,000 years later modern Americans aren't living much longer.

    When using statistics, it is supremely important to know the difference between terms like "mean" and "median," as well as how one is appropriate to use in some circumstances, but not others, and vice-versa. Without such knowledge, comments like, "The ancient Egyptians median life was 40" are worse than meaningless. They're very misleading.

    Here's an outstanding graph which shows life expectancy based on having reached certain milestone ages (birth, 5, 20, 40, and 60). As you can clearly see, once you reach age 60, there's been very little change in the ultimate age since 1850, rising only a few years from about 73 to about 79. Furthermore, as the note says, "The greatest change in the overall life expectancy of American man since 1850 resulted from an increasing liklihood that they would reach the age of 5."

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Never use the arithmetic mean when median is a more appropriate measure of central tendency.

    Finally, here's a good article contrasting the difference between Lifespan (independent of whatever age you might be) and Life Expectancy (dependent on your age).
    Last edited by since9; 10-08-2014 at 06:03 AM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  23. #23
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    do not confuse chronical time span with an ability to accomplish feats of physical agility or endurance as there are thousands to millions of young adults within our country who could not acheive at trip to the top of a 14'r. that individual is a rare exception i'm afraid!

    additionally, cognitive capability should be a factor in your equation.

    as a youth ~ middle age, i was always under the misconception the early settler's life span was diminished due to the harsh environment they lived. that is until i researched my lineage and discovered longevity, doumented proof --gaggles of relatives initially in coming from British Is. as young adults o/a 1690 living into their 70s, thru the ggf who died at 93 in 1922. after that point, age expectancy fell to early 80s to now around mid 70s. it is a startling discovery which has caused me to ponder, what in our environment and society has caused this shift, at least in my lineage!

    finally, we all know numerous individuals in their middle age group who are "olde" through and by their actions, in their physical health, and finally by their cognitive behaviour(s).
    remember soylent green
    careful david...some could consider you olde!

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    do not confuse chronical time span with an ability to accomplish feats of physical agility or endurance as there are thousands to millions of young adults within our country who could not acheive at trip to the top of a 14'r. that individual is a rare exception i'm afraid!

    additionally, cognitive capability should be a factor in your equation.

    as a youth ~ middle age, i was always under the misconception the early settler's life span was diminished due to the harsh environment they lived. that is until i researched my lineage and discovered longevity, doumented proof --gaggles of relatives initially in coming from British Is. as young adults o/a 1690 living into their 70s, thru the ggf who died at 93 in 1922. after that point, age expectancy fell to early 80s to now around mid 70s. it is a startling discovery which has caused me to ponder, what in our environment and society has caused this shift, at least in my lineage!

    finally, we all know numerous individuals in their middle age group who are "olde" through and by their actions, in their physical health, and finally by their cognitive behaviour(s).
    remember soylent green
    careful david...some could consider you olde!

    ipse
    solus, you've read my mind, if not my lineage. My eldest lineage died after 100; my paternal line at 97. LONG way to go until these ***** take over...
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I resemble most (all?) of the remarks here.

    Too close to "elderly bashing" to let stand.

    Locked it.
    getoffmylawn.jpg

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