our seniors

I have been raised to respect/listen to older people.
You know .. the once that complain about their retirement pay, Medicare and costs of living for senior citizens.
Yup, those people that blow their Monthly checks at Blackhawk while complaining that they can't affot a new walker.

Anyhow I find that actually these people know squat about arms, even the ww2 vets.
So me and my 2 year old are heading to king soopers at northglenn location.
As we pass a older gentlemen I took note of his veteran hat. I greeted him and went on.
Something about the way he ignored me made me look back. And this man was yelling into his phone .. I pretty sure I heard the word gun and for sure that " he has a baby". He had to repeat him self because he had trouble hanging on to his walker and yelling into his phone. Now being a vet myself I have the utmost respect for these people but this guy.
But God knows what else he said, this very well could have ended up with me being executed by the police.

This isn't the first time a senior citizen made a reaction, bout a week ago a senior couple was standing next to me at Wendy's
and the lady made remarks about my boy being cute .. till she seen my pistol then she hung in to her husband arm so tight you'd think the great flood was coming.
Going back to veterans ... I know some are idiots, my work partner a navy veterans is a standup anti gunner.
He is absolutely against "anyone going to the gun store and buying a fully automatic weapon".
On a happier note, I did have a young man also at kings thank me for carrying and wished me a safe day.

It used to be said that people could be expected to "Get Older and Wiser" as they age. Nowadays, it's become just "Getting Older but None the Wiser." Similar to the "Common Sense isn't common anymore" we also hear -- and so true as well.

Those old guys (I'm one, too, so I'm not "name-calling" if you will) are so CLUELESS to the fact that ANYONE (even a kid, let alone criminals) could knock them over in their "stroller" and take everything they have -- including their cell phone (!) AND stroller (!!) -- because they CAN"T defend themselves whatsoever...except maybe hurl harsh words at an attacker (before being being stomped into unconsciousness), or, yell into their cell phone calling the police, i.e., desperately seeking SOMEONE ELSE to help them (pathetic), since THEY personally can't.

Lots of veterans, even combat vets, don't like guns and won't carry them. These guys (or gals nowadays) didn't learn jack in combat, as violence really DOES solve problems (like it or not). Not sure how many are like that vs. those who DO know better and DO carry, but it would be an interesting statistic. Whatever, at least THIS combat vet (Yours Truly) carries...always.

I was in a Walmart some time back, and in the checkout line a grandpa (I guess) was with his 2 grandkids (I guess). He seemed to be giving me some disapproving looks, but I wasn't sure. Then he asked me, "Why do you need a gun inside a Walmart?" I could see this was one of the clueless/naïve people who (apparently) don't even realize THEY are USDA Choice Crime Victims. I was thinking that were *I* a criminal, I EASILY could beat "grandpa" senseless, and/or kidnap his grandkids (or worse) -- either right there in the store or out in the parking lot -- and he could do NOTHING about it. Doesn't he know he can't be duking-it-out anymore @ his age? Even if he could still do so vs. ONE attacker, how about 2 or 3? What if they were armed (bat/knife/gun)? How does grandpa respond then?

Well, grandpa "responds" by becoming a victim and will be on the local TV news @ 6. And at the very least, his traumatized grandkids will witness it all. Sad...

But that's the reality and those are the facts. Even if grandpa didn't (or want to) know that...

IMO, it's just FINE if a person (ESPECIALLY vets) is anti-gun and refuses to carry -- it's HIS or HER life (so let them receive the consequences of their choice: Life or death) -- but what about those OTHERS he/she is responsible for, like their family's safety? Why should kids or grandkids be UNprotected victims-waiting-to-happen (kids can't legally carry at their age, even SMART kids who KNOW they should be protecting themselves) because of a clueless/naïve mother/father, who are SUPPOSED to protect them, but can't/won't because they hold anti-gun opinions? How is "holding the moral high ground" (as they think is true) REALLY going to help them or their family when a criminal attack occurs?

It ain't.

And how are the parents going to feel AFTER the tragic event (if they survive)...too late to be sorry then, yes?

Or in this particular incident, a disapproving yet completely helpless grandpa out with his grandkids one afternoon: HE is their protector, but he can't -- or won't (which is far worse). We all know it's likely that clueless grandpa SURE WOULD die for his grandkids trying to protect them, but how is THAT going to help...really? Why is it necessary to die? Or even be injured/wounded? Do the grandkids REALLY have to lose their grandpa? Why not be a bit smarter and be armed so you can defend yourself AND your grandkids without the likely tragic results from being UNarmed? Who wants to be at the "mercy" of some criminal(s), where THEY say what goes?

So what can I say about grown people -- adults, and especially Senior Citizens -- who SHOULD know better but are so naïve and clueless at such an advanced age. HTH did they ever make it as far in life as they have?

By mere luck I guess...but they can only HOPE their lucky streak continues, as HOPE is all they have going for them.

I prefer something more concrete -- something in cold steel, like a firearm (a knife second)...

Still, it DOES bother me seeing so many families out there HOPING (I guess) nothing will happen to them (or maybe not giving it ANY thought at all) when anything CAN happen at ANY time, yet most likely (given carrying statistics) MOST of the adults of those families are unarmed and have no real way to defend themselves, let alone their "charges" -- their families.

...and I think THAT should be criminal negligence at the very least!

Of course, legally it isn't a crime -- parents/grandparents aren't REQUIRED to "Protect & Serve" their own -- but morally they sure are EXPECTED to.

And nowadays, the best tool we have for self-defense technology-wise is a firearm. Like it or not, that's just a simple fact of life...despite any disapproving looks or comments to the contrary from "spectators" while OC-ing out in public.

forgot..

I did about an hour shopping no police made contact ,but when leaving I noticed 1 cruiser parked next KS.

lukaszu said:

I have been raised to respect/listen to older people.
You know .. the once that complain about their retirement pay, Medicare and costs of living for senior citizens.
Yup, those people that blow their Monthly checks at Blackhawk while complaining that they can't affot a new walker.

Click to expand...

Been to a gun store or range lately? Gray or no hair is the dominate hair color you will see. You too will be old one day, if you're lucky.

Nor will you hear me complaining about not being able to afford stuff, I want it, I buy it.

I have noticed that the elderly are the most opposed to anything. Guns, martial arts, asians, music, motorcycles, black people, cars, football, boxing...you name it.



When you get old, you start to **** your pants again and it happens real suddenly or sometimes kind of slow so you don't know its happening. They blame the mess in their pants on the gun because its better than acknowledging you need a more absorbent diaper. This is why they're cranky.

I resemble most (all?) of the remarks here.

Too close to "elderly bashing" to let stand.

Locked it.

Grapeshot said:

I resemble most (all?) of the remarks here.

Too close to "elderly bashing" to let stand.

Locked it.

Click to expand...

Change of heart...........for now.

lukaszu said:

I have been raised to respect/listen to older people.

Anyhow I find that actually these people know squat about arms, even the ww2 vets.

Now being a vet myself I have the utmost respect for these people but this guy.

Going back to veterans ... I know some are idiots, my work partner a navy veterans is a standup anti gunner. He is absolutely against "anyone going to the gun store and buying a fully automatic weapon".

On a happier note, I did have a young man also at kings thank me for carrying and wished me a safe day.

Click to expand...

One Veteran to another: I may only have arrived at the tender age of 51, but I'm sporting a full head of gray hair!

Meanwhile, throughout the rest of the U.S. Population:

Median age: total: 37.6 years

I'm but a youngster in my family. My older Brother CCs My youngest Uncle (a Veteran) is 71, and he's carried firearms all his life. My Dad (a Veteran) is 80, and he and my Uncle taught me how to shoot when I was nine, hence my username. Another Uncle (a Veteran) would have been 78, but he passed away on his Harley. My oldest Uncle is 84, and he still owns firearms. My grandfather passed away when he was 96, and didn't give up his firearms until he was 92, when he entered an assisted living facility.

lukaszu, it doesn't appear you've been meeting the right kind of old people! Or Veterans.

Rest assured, many adults on the high side of 37.6 years committed to our Constitutional right to keep and bear arms, including veterans. Not all older people or veterans support our right to keep and bear arms. However, a number of polls have have shown that most adults of all ages support our right to keep and bear arms.

In closing, I'd like to say of the dozen Meet and Greets I've attended here in Colorado, the attendees come from all ages, and we have more Veterans attending on a percentage basis than exist in the general population.

Grapeshot said:

I resemble most (all?) of the remarks here.

Too close to "elderly bashing" to let stand.

Locked it.

Click to expand...

Howdy Pard!
Yeah, thanks for re-opening the thread, and I agree that it really is close to being discriminatory.
Can't tar the whole generation with the same brush, and I agree.

I just qualified for Medicare the first of August. I don't use a walker, and have an extremely active life as a fugitive recovery agent.
I also had my first colonoscopy, welcome to Medicare physical, and blood work. Turns out I am outrageously healthy, and note there are plenty of folks
younger than myself who don't know squat about firearms.
My only complaint is having enough money to buy more firearms, but that's another discussion, and isn't because I spend any time or money in Blackhawk.

So, given that preamble, I carry open, even in Denver. I have had support from cops over there, but also had one or two that berated me until I covered the gun.

Funny thing is, I have had cops ask if I have a permit in areas where OC is perfvectly legal.
My response is, "What kind of permit are you referring to?"

Problem is, many cops think the conceal carry permit is a weapons permit.
It isn't. It is a concealed handgun permit. Simple as that. Take yours out (assuming you have one) and check.
When I explain that you don't need a permit to open carry, they are sometimes taken aback.

The point is, we need to educate everybody (sometimes cops too) we interface with folks about open carry, because the fact of the matter is...

Most of our fellow Coloradans have no freaking idea tht OC is legal.
And age doesn't matter in the level of ignorance involved.

and the one I like best comes when I carry my 1911.
"Do you know the hammer on that thing is cocked?"
And that, too, gives me an opportunity to educate somebody.

Point being, if we want to have the freedom to open carry, we also must accept some responsibility to educate those that find the practice objectionable
because they don't understand our freedom yet. It don't matter how young they are. I've had far more kids make an issue of my firearm than greys.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

At the gun show here, I notice folks of all ages.

Sorry you had that incident, glad nothing came of it.

I'm old. Get used to it.

The word "curmudgeon" has my picture next to it in the dictionary. It's one of those jobs that few folks are willing to take - just be glad someone stepped up to the plate.

One of the biggest reason old folks who don't know squat about __ stand out in a crowd is because knowing about __ is all too often necessary in order to get to be old.

Being old makes me entitled to whine and complain about just about everything - just like being a hoplophobic soccer mom or a member of the 99% entitles a person to whine and complain. What most folks forget is that usually the only group you need to pay attention to when they are whining and complaining is babies because they are the only ones without the capacity to help themselves. (And yes, babies do sometimes whine and complain just because they want attention. I'm told that they are cute and that is what saves them from being dropped off in a convenient clearing for the wolves to snack on. The rest of the whiners and complainers are not so cute.)

But getting back on track - since us oulde phartes so often slip the tracks - did you have a voice recorder going while the old geezer was having his apoplectic fit? Some of us who have managed to live to be this old have learned that having an operating voice recorder when you leave the house is as important as having your handgun in its holster when you leave the house. And we pass that "wisdom" down to the folks who are not yet this old in the hopes that it will help them to become this old.

Now pull your pants up over your hips and get off my lawn!

stay safe.

....

skidmark said:

I'm old. Get used to it.

The word "curmudgeon" has my picture next to it in the dictionary. It's one of those jobs that few folks are willing to take - just be glad someone stepped up to the plate.

One of the biggest reason old folks who don't know squat about __ stand out in a crowd is because knowing about __ is all too often necessary in order to get to be old.

Being old makes me entitled to whine and complain about just about everything - just like being a hoplophobic soccer mom or a member of the 99% entitles a person to whine and complain. What most folks forget is that usually the only group you need to pay attention to when they are whining and complaining is babies because they are the only ones without the capacity to help themselves. (And yes, babies do sometimes whine and complain just because they want attention. I'm told that they are cute and that is what saves them from being dropped off in a convenient clearing for the wolves to snack on. The rest of the whiners and complainers are not so cute.)

But getting back on track - since us oulde phartes so often slip the tracks - did you have a voice recorder going while the old geezer was having his apoplectic fit? Some of us who have managed to live to be this old have learned that having an operating voice recorder when you leave the house is as important as having your handgun in its holster when you leave the house. And we pass that "wisdom" down to the folks who are not yet this old in the hopes that it will help them to become this old.

Now pull your pants up over your hips and get off my lawn!

stay safe.

Click to expand...

No, no VR and I dint think it would have made a difference.
My original rant wasn't just about old people it was more about how I'm disappointed about the lack of knowledge... I mean this fella must have been around 90. My parents always told me that when a older person speaks you listen because they are wise and have life experience. I'm sure that some are awesome unfortunately the few iv met are anything but.
O and I'm 39

lukaszu said:

SNIP...
Anyhow I find that actually these people know squat about arms, even the ww2 vets.
SNIP...

This isn't the first time a senior citizen made a reaction, bout a week ago a senior couple was standing next to me at Wendy's
and the lady made remarks about my boy being cute .. till she seen my pistol then she hung in to her husband arm so tight you'd think the great flood was coming.
Going back to veterans ... I know some are idiots, my work partner a navy veterans is a standup anti gunner.
He is absolutely against "anyone going to the gun store and buying a fully automatic weapon".
On a happier note, I did have a young man also at kings thank me for carrying and wished me a safe day.

Click to expand...

I think I know what you meant to convey, even if your post initially seemed of the "wide brush" variety. Just as with all groups, there are those that are just a bit nutty; I'd say it is always the extremists in each group which define the group to the uninformed (think "stereotypes").

In my experience, the older folks generally don't say anything to me other than "Thank you young man"; whether they are appreciative of me holding the door (which I do regardless of age) and don't feel threatened by my sidearm or simply do not see my sidearm (seems most people are oblivious to their surroundings), I do not know for sure.

As to the "fully automatic weapon" remark: you can't fix stupid, and it seems it was a preexisting condition.:lol:

cloudcroft said:

It used to be said that people could be expected to "Get Older and Wiser" as they age. Nowadays, it's become just "Getting Older but None the Wiser." Similar to the "Common Sense isn't common anymore" we also hear -- and so true as well.

SNIP...
Why should kids or grandkids be UNprotected victims-waiting-to-happen (kids can't legally carry at their age, even SMART kids who KNOW they should be protecting themselves) because of a clueless/naïve mother/father, who are SUPPOSED to protect them, but can't/won't because they hold anti-gun opinions? How is "holding the moral high ground" (as they think is true) REALLY going to help them or their family when a criminal attack occurs?

Click to expand...

The way I've heard it is "With age comes wisdom, but sometimes age comes alone" - Oscar Wilde

In regards to taking care of the little ones, I have to say the strongest criticism I've heard yet came from my mother:
She said something to the effect of "A true mother will do everything she can to protect her children at all costs; some women call themselves mothers giving us (real mothers) a bad name. Do what you want to the mother, but don't even put a finger on her kids."
It stung me, and she said it in a soft voice.:shocker:

cloudcroft said:

And how are the parents going to feel AFTER the tragic event (if they survive)...too late to be sorry then, yes?

Click to expand...

The "mainstream" media only likes to show those who've somehow managed to put their heads further into the ground by blaming an inanimate object for the actions of a murderer, further perpetuating the "victim" image. THAT, other than the death of innocents who couldn't/didn't know better (children), is the greatest tragedy.

M-Taliesin said:

Howdy Pard!
Yeah, thanks for re-opening the thread, and I agree that it really is close to being discriminatory.
Can't tar the whole generation with the same brush, and I agree.

I just qualified for Medicare the first of August. I don't use a walker, and have an extremely active life as a fugitive recovery agent.
I also had my first colonoscopy, welcome to Medicare physical, and blood work. Turns out I am outrageously healthy, and note there are plenty of folks
younger than myself who don't know squat about firearms.
My only complaint is having enough money to buy more firearms, but that's another discussion, and isn't because I spend any time or money in Blackhawk.

So, given that preamble, I carry open, even in Denver. I have had support from cops over there, but also had one or two that berated me until I covered the gun.

Funny thing is, I have had cops ask if I have a permit in areas where OC is perfvectly legal.
My response is, "What kind of permit are you referring to?"

Problem is, many cops think the conceal carry permit is a weapons permit.
It isn't. It is a concealed handgun permit. Simple as that. Take yours out (assuming you have one) and check.
When I explain that you don't need a permit to open carry, they are sometimes taken aback.

The point is, we need to educate everybody (sometimes cops too) we interface with folks about open carry, because the fact of the matter is...

Most of our fellow Coloradans have no freaking idea tht OC is legal.
And age doesn't matter in the level of ignorance involved.

and the one I like best comes when I carry my 1911.
"Do you know the hammer on that thing is cocked?"
And that, too, gives me an opportunity to educate somebody.

Point being, if we want to have the freedom to open carry, we also must accept some responsibility to educate those that find the practice objectionable
because they don't understand our freedom yet. It don't matter how young they are. I've had far more kids make an issue of my firearm than greys.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

Click to expand...

Outstanding post, Mel. I sent the part about "many cops think the conceal carry permit is a weapons permit" to my contacts in the Colorado Springs Police Department for their review. While I'm quite sure you meant "other than the Colorado Springs Police Department," perhaps they just need reminding.

I think they're up to speed, though. When I went through the Citizens Academy, I was pleasantly surprised by just how up to speed they really are.

From what I gather, though, the majority of these issues arise from both backwater and urban departments, those who don't think the law applies to them, and those who don't think the law applies to them. When they realize they're charged with the responsibility of upholding the law, and that their citizens will hit the eject button in a heartbeat if they're not, they either come around or self-destruct.

In the mere five years since I touched down here in Colorado, I've seen both.

M-Taliesin said:

Howdy Pard!
snip...

So, given that preamble, I carry open, even in Denver. I have had support from cops over there, but also had one or two that berated me until I covered the gun.

snip...

M-Taliesin

Click to expand...

a query, M, since you are a professed bounty hunter, as you identified in a forum post on 08-08-12 at 09:46 pm; you further professed to this forum's membership on 10-03-2013, 08:6 am: quote " Oh, and lest I forget.... I OC in Denver frequently, often in the company of cops. unquote.

to assure a viable sense of propriety, you did caveat the last referenced quote with: quote Would I recommend anybody OC in City and County of Denver? NO! I do it, and take my own chances. You do it at your own risk, bearing in mind: IANAL! unquote

i believe you have the 'support' to violate the law as you have bounty hunter credentials to present to the good LEs who might run into you and your law breaking OC ways in those areas of Colorado which flat out state no OC'g allowed..

it just befuddles me why you consistently and steadfastly insist on making statements that appear you are walking just over on the legal OC edge yet under scrutiny you, due to your affiliation through your occupation are considered by LEs as one of the ancillary 'boys in blue' and what you are presenting out here is nothing but bravado!!

JQP could not get away with the OC antics you have pulled and continue to profess to do with impunity because of your credentials.

BTW, welcome back from your self imposed exile, (guess your new forum association you bragged about didn't work out so well , huh?) but do everyone a favor, could you at least cease advocating those OC activities you do under the guise of your credentials which are misleading to the average forum reader who believes they should try it 'cuz you did and yet might fall short during their encounter with LEs?

Allāhu Akbar

ipse

solus said:

Allāhu Akbar

ipse

Click to expand...

Howdy Chum!
Your close tells me everything I need to know about you, so I won't bother with a rebuttal.
I've noticed you present yourself as you do, and likely alienate more people against our 2nd Amendment rights than anybody else on this forum.

Have fun with that.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

M-Taliesin said:

snip...

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

Click to expand...

quote from wiki: A blessing (also used to refer to bestowing of such) is the infusion of something with holiness, spiritual redemption, divine will, or one's hope or approval.unquote

as i am sure your closing reflects the same sentiment as mine...

truly not even a good deflection attempt mel...and to be honest i expected a response with a little less stereotypical rhetoric as well as something which doesn't present your closed mindedness to others beliefs.

btw my 2a efforts along with my critical thinking skills are splendid thanks for asking...how's your portrayal of walking the OC'g edge w/the boys in blue and your credentials going mel?

Allāhu Akbar

ipse

addenum to since 9 sure you wish to advertise mel walks the OC edge after learning he does so apparently with his occupations credentials in hand and in the company of LEs as an ancillary 'boy in blue

lukaszu said:

I have been raised to respect/listen to older people.
...
Anyhow I find that actually these people know squat about arms, even the ww2 vets.
.....
This isn't the first time a senior citizen made a reaction, bout a week ago a senior couple was standing next to me at Wendy's
and the lady made remarks about my boy being cute .. till she seen my pistol then she hung in to her husband arm so tight you'd think the great flood was coming.

Click to expand...

I wonder if they are that aware the world has changed - more lawlessness, less non-islamic religion in US, certain cultural rot devalues sensitivity of human life, etc.
Reminds me of 'Being There' movie w Peter Sellers when he's kicked out of the house and when confronted by thugs he clicks the TV changer at them....
Also, just because you get old, your basic personality doesn't change, and while you might learn from a long life, to paraphrase HAL 'your mind is going....Dave'....

solus said:

addenum to since 9 sure you wish to advertise mel walks the OC edge after learning he does so apparently with his occupations credentials in hand and in the company of LEs as an ancillary 'boy in blue

Click to expand...

I've zero wish to advertise such a thing, solus. My query to the locals was complete stripped of identity. I was merely curious with respect to whether or not the Denver PD had changed their tune. I don't know anyone in the Denver PD. I do know folks in the local PD, so I asked them, knowing quite well they would know what Denver is doing or not. Still haven't heard back from them, other than a "Curious - I'll ask."

I said that was an outstanding post by Mel, and I meant it.

M-Taliesin said:

(to solus) I've noticed you present yourself as you do, and likely alienate more people against our 2nd Amendment rights than anybody else on this forum.

Have fun with that.

Click to expand...

I concur with your sentiments on both counts.

shame individuals will pursue their perception of right through espousing and articulating a viable opinion, whether it be concerning religion, or liberty, or (fill in your own pursuit) as long as they believe the perception applies to similar like minded folk, then all is right in their world.

i find it fascinating as well as surprising how quickly that articulated opinion is diminished to null by the ability of someone to push the right button(s) through words or actions as well as to push self professing individuals out of their comfort zone by some who espouses the same principle, yet utilizing a different set of words. watching the individual(s) retreat into their learned closed minded prejudice, thus showing these individuals in their true light, of only supporting whatever right they are espousing is apparently to only an elite group of people the individual believes they need to obtain recognition.

It wasn't argued into you and can't be argued out of you.

ipse