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Thread: City Park Signage Question

  1. #1
    Regular Member Blueslant's Avatar
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    City Park Signage Question

    I ran across a "rules" sign at a city park on Saturday with the wife and kid. The sign said, "Leave alcoholic beverages and firearms at home." Had a picture of a pistol with the standard red circle with a slash. My understanding is that the city can't post that.

    The park itself is next to a school, with no visible border between school property and the city park. Does this create an exception to the rule that allows the city to regulate firearms on the park grounds?

    I took a picture and would post it, but for some reason I'm just not able to get it to upload.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxV...it?usp=sharing

    Okay, link to the picture. Also, I'm pretty sure I just gave away the rights to the picture as well.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Invalid, Article 1 Section 24. That is all.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
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  3. #3
    Regular Member Blueslant's Avatar
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    Don't get me wrong, the sign in no way impeded my ability to carry while at the park. Unless I absolutely know I am in the wrong, school building, church building, etc, I'm going to carry. I will conceal if I know I will be asked to leave by a duly authorized individual. My question is more if the city has the lawful authority to post the sign at all. The city can most definitely and lawfully post no gun signage in specific locations, I am just not sure if this is one of them.

    I do appreciate the link to the state constitution though. I've wandered around the RCW's for some time, but it was nice to read up on the foundations
    Last edited by Blueslant; 09-01-2014 at 05:49 PM.

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    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueslant View Post
    Unless I absolutely know I am in the wrong, school building, church building, etc, I'm going to carry.
    What does a church have to do with anything?

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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ()pen(arry View Post
    What does a church have to do with anything?
    +1
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  6. #6
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueslant View Post
    Don't get me wrong, the sign in no way impeded my ability to carry while at the park. Unless I absolutely know I am in the wrong, school building, church building, etc, I'm going to carry. I will conceal if I know I will be asked to leave by a duly authorized individual. My question is more if the city has the lawful authority to post the sign at all. The city can most definitely and lawfully post no gun signage in specific locations, I am just not sure if this is one of them.

    I do appreciate the link to the state constitution though. I've wandered around the RCW's for some time, but it was nice to read up on the foundations
    School=Drop off,pick up, CPL allowed.
    Church=OC/CC allowed in WA
    City, County, Municipality, or whatever they want to call themselves has no authority to prohibit guns in a park. The parks in Lacey (where I live) has signs like this. I brought it up to the parks director, and they fixed it by the time I went to the city meeting. We cleared this issue up in a bunch of cities in WA over the last few years. They may not be enforcing the rule because they are waiting for the sign to need replacing due to waiting for its lifespan. Which can cause confusion with people that a unaware of the law.

    Who is a "duly authorized" person?

    It hasn't happened, but I will not do business with a place that prohibits guns. If you CC, and "sneak" it in then you are supporting their no gun agenda.

    Just to save time, you can carry in banks too (WA).
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
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    The Title 13 Yakima Municipal Code referenced on the sign doesn't actually prohibit guns. 13.16.120 is titled "Firearms prohibited - Throwing prohibited" but the code doesn't actually prohibit guns.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Blueslant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ()pen(arry View Post
    What does a church have to do with anything?
    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    School=Drop off,pick up, CPL allowed.
    Church=OC/CC allowed in WA
    I was only talking about inside the building on the school. The church portion, I was unaware of. All of my previous states of residence have had a ban on that. After a decade, I just haven't looked back into it. Thank you for that information.

    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    Who is a "duly authorized" person?

    It hasn't happened, but I will not do business with a place that prohibits guns. If you CC, and "sneak" it in then you are supporting their no gun agenda.

    Just to save time, you can carry in banks too (WA).
    Management, owner or private property, etc. There are, fortunately, very few places I have to go that are not firearm friendly. As much as I don't like to support them based on specific policies, I really don't have a choice. Given that, I would rather carry than not. If bad things happen, I would rather explain after the fact why I was the only armed person who could shoot back, instead of being another unarmed victim.

    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post

    That ordinance states that it was amended in 2009 and then again, partially, in 2013. I'd bet the partial amendment was to remove any reference to firearms. Titles are not part of an ordinance. The body of an ordinance is often changed and the title left as it was, beforehand. The sign could have be painted and put in place before the ordinance was changed, then left as it was due to an oversight or just because they didn't want to change it. Who knows? A little paint or just some tape could fix the sign.
    Thanks. I'll stick my head in tomorrow when I have to be downtown and ask about it then. It may just have been overlooked and easily rectified.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    School=Drop off,pick up, CPL allowed.
    Church=OC/CC allowed in WA
    .


    It might be "allowed" in the church but it really is up to the church to allow it is it not?

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    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovenox View Post
    It might be "allowed" in the church but it really is up to the church to allow it is it not?
    The point is that there is absolutely nothing noteworthy about churches, specifically, with regard to Washington firearms laws. It is exactly as meaningful to talk about the rules for shoe repair stores.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ()pen(arry View Post
    The point is that there is absolutely nothing noteworthy about churches, specifically, with regard to Washington firearms laws. It is exactly as meaningful to talk about the rules for shoe repair stores.
    Sure, but the verbiage used lead me to believe that there was something I (we) didn't know about that. Besides the law doesn't "allow" per sey it just tells you where it is not allowed is what I gather. Nuance I know but important nonetheless.

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    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovenox View Post
    Sure, but the verbiage used lead me to believe that there was something I (we) didn't know about that. Besides the law doesn't "allow" per sey it just tells you where it is not allowed is what I gather. Nuance I know but important nonetheless.
    Agreed. "Not disallowed" would have been correct.

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovenox View Post
    Besides the law doesn't "allow" per sey it just tells you where it is not allowed is what I gather.
    Laws do not tell us what is legal, laws tell us what is not allowed. Per Washington state laws, that which is not illegal is thereby legal, period.
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    Laws do not tell us what is legal, laws tell us what is not allowed. Per Washington state laws, that which is not illegal is thereby legal, period.

    My point all along.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post

    A little paint or just some tape could fix the sign.
    Altho it is great to report and dispose of signs like this we should not get our collective panties in too big a wad. after all the situation can be easily rectified with that wondrous material......duct tape.
    Last edited by MSG Laigaie; 09-03-2014 at 09:51 AM.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    Altho it is great to report and dispose of signs like this we should not get our collective panties in to big a wad. after all the situation can be easily rectified with that wondrous material......duct tape.
    I always took duct tape to the field.

  17. #17
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Chan v Seattle will settle ALL of the issues carrying in a park.

    The Washington State Supreme Court handed the City of Seattle its final loss after declining to review the city’s appeal in its attempt to skirt the state preemption law and enact a gun ban in city parks facilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    Invalid, Article 1 Section 24. That is all.


    Nope. Invalid under RCW 9.41.290. It's more of a preemption question than a constitutional one.

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    On a related note - I visited an off leash dog park in Edmonds, WA the other day. The one near train tracks and right on the Sound. Noticed a sign that said "No Firearms". I didn't think to snap a picture, but I believe that sign too is illegal given it is a public city park managed by the City of Edmonds Public Works.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrayy View Post
    I believe that sign too is illegal given it is a public city park managed by the City of Edmonds Public Works.
    Welcome to OCDO jrayy. You are correct, the city is not.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  21. #21
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Workman View Post
    Nope. Invalid under RCW 9.41.290. It's more of a preemption question than a constitutional one.
    Well, since a city can't lawfully violate the constitution any more than the state can, it's both.

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