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Thread: Montana - A Good State to go Off Grid

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    Montana - A Good State to go Off Grid

    Is Montana a Good State to go Off the Grid?

    "Montana is a stunningly beautiful state. It seems like Montana is usually on the short list of people who are considering an off-grid lifestyle. I'm not sure why, maybe it's because of the Marlboro Man image or maybe it's because of the low density levels. For whatever reason Montana is usually at the top of the list. But, is it really a good place to start your self-sustaining homestead off the grid? Let's take a look and see."

    For full article and excellent videos:

    http://brie-hoffman.hubpages.com/hub...o-Off-the-Grid

    Watch the 3 minute video called "90% Have Guns in Montana" for a good overview of Montana's gun culture.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    10. Gun Laws:

    Montana is an open carry and conceal carry state. Montana has some of the most liberal gun laws in the country.



    11. Garden and Food Laws:
    Raw milk is illegal in Montana, in fact Montana has one of the most restrictive raw milk laws in the country; it is absolutely forbidden to even drink your own raw milk in Montana; the state has even harassed cow-herd share participants.
    http://brie-hoffman.hubpages.com/hub...o-Off-the-Grid
    Mother's milk (breast feeding) is illegal?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member MontanaResident's Avatar
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    There was lots of people here living off the grid before there was a grid. Lots and lots of resources, berries, fruit, game, water, firewood, etc.

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    Thumbs up

    Just come up to canada

    Ever notice in the movies that the apocalypses' and wars never go to canada?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Mother's milk (breast feeding) is illegal?
    I hope you are not being serious. Don't you know what raw milk is? It is milk that hasn't been pasteurized. High quality raw milk enhances health while pasteurized milk contributes to illness. Raw, whole milk has been consumed for centuries and has long been acknowledged for its health benefits. Numerous research studies show superior growth and health for those children drinking raw milk compared to pasteurized milk.

    The fact that some states have actually sent in SWAT teams to nab the dangerous perpertrators who drink raw milk shows us how far Amerika has fallen into tyranny. When a state allows raw milk consumption, it is considered to be a sign of freedom.

    http://www.naturalnews.com/023083_mi..._benefits.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Augustin View Post
    I hope you are not being serious. Don't you know what raw milk is? It is milk that hasn't been pasteurized. High quality raw milk enhances health while pasteurized milk contributes to illness. Raw, whole milk has been consumed for centuries and has long been acknowledged for its health benefits. Numerous research studies show superior growth and health for those children drinking raw milk compared to pasteurized milk.

    The fact that some states have actually sent in SWAT teams to nab the dangerous perpertrators who drink raw milk shows us how far Amerika has fallen into tyranny. When a state allows raw milk consumption, it is considered to be a sign of freedom.

    http://www.naturalnews.com/023083_mi..._benefits.html
    Pasteurization is a process that kills harmful bacteria by heating milk to a specific temperature for a set period of time. First developed by Louis Pasteur in 1864, pasteurization kills harmful organisms responsible for such diseases as listeriosis, typhoid fever, tuberculosis, diphtheria, and brucellosis.


    Research shows no meaningful difference in the nutritional values of pasteurized and unpasteurized milk. Pasteurized milk contains low levels of the type of nonpathogenic bacteria that can cause food spoilage, so storing your pasteurized milk in the refrigerator is still important.
    http://www.fda.gov/Food/ResourcesFor.../ucm079516.htm
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bchunter View Post
    Just come up to canada

    Ever notice in the movies that the apocalypses' and wars never go to canada?


    When Canada allows an individual to open carry a pistol just like Idaho does, that is the only way I will go back to Canada.
    If I cannot carry a firearm with me I don't go there.

    Back In the 90's, I did step across the border wearing my Colt peacemaker and holding my 1873 Winchester, then I had my picture taken next to the welcome to Canada sign.

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    Yeah, hopefully soon. Only bush carry right now.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Pasteurization is a process that kills harmful bacteria by heating milk to a specific temperature for a set period of time. First developed by Louis Pasteur in 1864, pasteurization kills harmful organisms responsible for such diseases as listeriosis, typhoid fever, tuberculosis, diphtheria, and brucellosis.


    Research shows no meaningful difference in the nutritional values of pasteurized and unpasteurized milk. Pasteurized milk contains low levels of the type of nonpathogenic bacteria that can cause food spoilage, so storing your pasteurized milk in the refrigerator is still important.
    http://www.fda.gov/Food/ResourcesFor.../ucm079516.htm
    I have been drinking raw milk when I can get through my whole life and never had a problem. It taste better than the processed milk in my opinion. Risk? sure, but it's worth it to me.

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    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bchunter View Post
    Yeah, hopefully soon. Only bush carry right now.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yeah, it would be nice to carry there, I would like to go back for a visit.

    Governments always getting in the way of personal freedom and responsibility.

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    I am fairly certain it is written by someone who has not actually LIVED in Montana. She just read some articles and then made up some comments. Her comments such as "Seems to me that a green house would be a priority." are a clue.

    We live off-grid with a bunch of others around here. I am on the Continental Divide just South of Glacier. I have lived and worked all over Montana, so I know a lot of the terrain and climates (yes, that is plural) fairly well. There is a reason that the winters drive a lot of people out of here. We get our share of "tourists" that think it will be wonderful to come and live off-grid in Montana, full time, when they came here from California or Texas.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Freedom View Post
    I have been drinking raw milk when I can get through my whole life and never had a problem. It taste better than the processed milk in my opinion. Risk? sure, but it's worth it to me.
    My mother survived typhoid fever. The source was milk.

    I tend to heed warnings: Danger High Voltage, Product will be very hot, Slippery when wet, and I do not play Russian roulette. When there is a recall on a food item, I avoid the product.

    I love Rhubarb, but take the word of the experts that ingesting the leaves can be fatal.

    I am reminded of an old nursery rhyme:

    Mares eat oats,
    Does eat oats,
    And little lambs eat ivy.
    A kid'll eat ivy too.
    Wouldn't you?

    Enjoy your raw milk - hope you never have a problem.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaCZ View Post
    I am fairly certain it is written by someone who has not actually LIVED in Montana. She just read some articles and then made up some comments. Her comments such as "Seems to me that a green house would be a priority." are a clue.

    We live off-grid with a bunch of others around here. I am on the Continental Divide just South of Glacier. I have lived and worked all over Montana, so I know a lot of the terrain and climates (yes, that is plural) fairly well. There is a reason that the winters drive a lot of people out of here. We get our share of "tourists" that think it will be wonderful to come and live off-grid in Montana, full time, when they came here from California or Texas.
    They don't know what Winter is if they come from way down there! I lived in the UK for many years and last winter we got literally half a day of snow. I'm now living in Wisconsin and ummm..... yea, 'nuff said :P
    Last edited by rightwinglibertarian; 09-04-2014 at 08:17 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaResident View Post
    There was lots of people here living off the grid before there was a grid. Lots and lots of resources, berries, fruit, game, water, firewood, etc.
    EXACTLY TRUE! And I was one of them.

    I was born into a poor hunting and fishing family in Montana in the late 50s. My parents started taking me on hunting and fishing trips before I was even 1 year of age. My mother was raised by her grandmother in a one room cellar in eastern Montana (obviously off-grid), heating the place by collecting coal that had fallen off the coal trains. She had a tough life back then. And my father was raised on a farm near Laurel, Montana (also off-grid); an equally difficult life for a kid.

    My Uncle Herman was an eccentric old geezer who was the original survivalist prototype. He buried guns on his remote off-grid property near Roundup, Montana as far back as 1960. He’d flip off the satellites when he buried his guns. Back then Roundup was extraordinarily isolated and remote. Wildlife was abundant. He mostly lived off the land, but traded wild game for beef, vegetables, and eggs from local farmers. Fruit was scarce, only to be found in far-away Billings.

    He was an extraordinary gun trader - mostly selling 20 gauge Winchester shotguns by mail order. He traveled the country (mostly western states like MT, WY, CO, ID, and TX) in his Chevy pick-up truck buying guns at gun stores, pawn shops, and through newspaper ads, and, once the entire back of his pickup truck was full of guns, he’d return to his backcountry hideout and sell them by mail order. He had very impressive gun buying, trading, and selling skills, as well as his gunsmithing, and marksmanship skills.

    He lived without electricity, running water, and sewer for decades. He had numerous secret hiding bins throughout his hand-built cabin. And he even used a post office box 60 miles away in Billings, Montana for his business mailings for retreat location privacy.

    As a kid in High School I spent several week-long trips visiting ole’ Herm. We reloaded 45/70s and shot his antique guns on his remote property. We trapped rabbits, and hunted deer, antelope, grouse, and pheasants. He taught me many backwoods skills such as shooting, reloading, hunting, fishing, trapping, navigating by the stars at night and the sun and trees in the daytime, home butchering, fire building, primitive shelter building, and much other bushcraft that he learned from the Crow Indians when he was a young adult.

    In 1966, when I was just 8 years old, Herm gave me a 20 gauge Winchester shotgun on my birthday and told me that there was a secret letter hidden in the stock which I wasn’t to read until after his death. So I got my first gun at age 8. I never told anyone about our special secret, nor did I ever take a peek inside the stock. After the years passed and my memory became faded, I often wondered if I remembered it right or if it was just a childhood fantasy.

    On his passing in 1991, I finally removed the butt plate and found a hollowed out chamber. The letter read, in part,

    “This Winchester Model 12, Serial No. (XXXXX), was purchased new wholesale from Gamble’s in August 1950 at a cost to me of $63.00 at Billings, Montana. It is completely factory original and has never been repaired or any alteration made whatsoever and has never has a single malfunction. I have hunted with it every year with the exception of 1965, it was not fired that year. It killed many ducks, partridges, Chinese pheasants, grouse. Has made three triples for me - - one in 1951 on three Mallards at Rapelje, Montana, the other two on sage grouse, one north of Laurel, Montana in 1956 and the other Northeast of Roundup, Montana in 1960. The exact number of birds killed and shots fired, I do not know, but it is many and has never been fired by another person other than myself. In my opinion, there isn’t a finer one built and it with a great deal of regret that on this day, November 8, 1966, that I will retire it not to ever fire a single shot again as long as it is in my possession and in my Winchester collection. The last shot was fired on November 6 at approximately 5 p.m., killing a Hungarian partridge. May you spend as many fine days afield with this fine shotgun as I have. Treat it well and it will do the same for you. I do this with great pride and great pleasure. Good luck and good hunting. When the time comes, I know you will know who will possess it after you.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Pasteurization is a process that kills harmful bacteria by heating milk to a specific temperature for a set period of time. First developed by Louis Pasteur in 1864, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH...
    So first you didn't even know what raw milk was, and now you are some kind of expert in pasteurization. I'd say you simply looked it up on the internet and are now posing as some kind of know-it-all. Whatever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaCZ View Post
    We live off-grid with a bunch of others around here. I am on the Continental Divide just South of Glacier.
    We live not that far apart. But I'm definitely on-grid. I bet we have a lot in common, and I'd like to meet you some day. Perhaps we could shoot together at the North Valley Sportsmans Club. Are you a member?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Augustin View Post
    EXACTLY TRUE! And I was one of them.

    I was born into a poor hunting and fishing family in Montana in the late 50s. My parents started taking me on hunting and fishing trips before I was even 1 year of age. My mother was raised by her grandmother in a one room cellar in eastern Montana (obviously off-grid), heating the place by collecting coal that had fallen off the coal trains. She had a tough life back then. And my father was raised on a farm near Laurel, Montana (also off-grid); an equally difficult life for a kid.

    My Uncle Herman was an eccentric old geezer who was the original survivalist prototype. He buried guns on his remote off-grid property near Roundup, Montana as far back as 1960. He’d flip off the satellites when he buried his guns. Back then Roundup was extraordinarily isolated and remote. Wildlife was abundant. He mostly lived off the land, but traded wild game for beef, vegetables, and eggs from local farmers. Fruit was scarce, only to be found in far-away Billings.

    He was an extraordinary gun trader - mostly selling 20 gauge Winchester shotguns by mail order. He traveled the country (mostly western states like MT, WY, CO, ID, and TX) in his Chevy pick-up truck buying guns at gun stores, pawn shops, and through newspaper ads, and, once the entire back of his pickup truck was full of guns, he’d return to his backcountry hideout and sell them by mail order. He had very impressive gun buying, trading, and selling skills, as well as his gunsmithing, and marksmanship skills.

    He lived without electricity, running water, and sewer for decades. He had numerous secret hiding bins throughout his hand-built cabin. And he even used a post office box 60 miles away in Billings, Montana for his business mailings for retreat location privacy.

    As a kid in High School I spent several week-long trips visiting ole’ Herm. We reloaded 45/70s and shot his antique guns on his remote property. We trapped rabbits, and hunted deer, antelope, grouse, and pheasants. He taught me many backwoods skills such as shooting, reloading, hunting, fishing, trapping, navigating by the stars at night and the sun and trees in the daytime, home butchering, fire building, primitive shelter building, and much other bushcraft that he learned from the Crow Indians when he was a young adult.

    In 1966, when I was just 8 years old, Herm gave me a 20 gauge Winchester shotgun on my birthday and told me that there was a secret letter hidden in the stock which I wasn’t to read until after his death. So I got my first gun at age 8. I never told anyone about our special secret, nor did I ever take a peek inside the stock. After the years passed and my memory became faded, I often wondered if I remembered it right or if it was just a childhood fantasy.

    On his passing in 1991, I finally removed the butt plate and found a hollowed out chamber. The letter read, in part,

    “This Winchester Model 12, Serial No. (XXXXX), was purchased new wholesale from Gamble’s in August 1950 at a cost to me of $63.00 at Billings, Montana. It is completely factory original and has never been repaired or any alteration made whatsoever and has never has a single malfunction. I have hunted with it every year with the exception of 1965, it was not fired that year. It killed many ducks, partridges, Chinese pheasants, grouse. Has made three triples for me - - one in 1951 on three Mallards at Rapelje, Montana, the other two on sage grouse, one north of Laurel, Montana in 1956 and the other Northeast of Roundup, Montana in 1960. The exact number of birds killed and shots fired, I do not know, but it is many and has never been fired by another person other than myself. In my opinion, there isn’t a finer one built and it with a great deal of regret that on this day, November 8, 1966, that I will retire it not to ever fire a single shot again as long as it is in my possession and in my Winchester collection. The last shot was fired on November 6 at approximately 5 p.m., killing a Hungarian partridge. May you spend as many fine days afield with this fine shotgun as I have. Treat it well and it will do the same for you. I do this with great pride and great pleasure. Good luck and good hunting. When the time comes, I know you will know who will possess it after you.”
    I really enjoyed reading this post. Thanks for taking the time!
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    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
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    can you still be off the grid and drive a car ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Augustin View Post
    So first you didn't even know what raw milk was, and now you are some kind of expert in pasteurization. I'd say you simply looked it up on the internet and are now posing as some kind of know-it-all. Whatever.
    Do not be insulting - there are consequences for that here.

    I was born and raised in Nebraska, have relatives with dairy cattle - none of them drink raw milk nor have for decades.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I went to Jr HS and graduated HS with Mike Russell - operator of http://www.cowboysranch.com/ Helena, Mt. Its funny Montana just went over the 1,000,000 mark of population. Our HS was the second largest in the LA district (including San Fernando Valley), Granada Hills was first. We had over 1100 grads. I guess Mike tasted the fresh air and stayed. I haven't communicated with him for about 6-8 years now but he was very popular and still active with our Class reunions from 1966. I'll have to watch for the announcement of the 50th.

    I was born in Great Falls, Mt but have never made it back.
    Last edited by wittmeba; 09-04-2014 at 07:53 AM.

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    Post Off-grid in Montana

    PBS did a 'Frontier House' series a few years ago...relocated a group (four families as I recall) to Montana and they were required to live as if it were 1883.

    http://www.pbs.org/wnet/frontierhouse/

    Not terribly successful, but the show did point out some of the unexpected difficulties.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Do not be insulting - there are consequences for that here.
    I didn't mean to insult you. If I did I appologize. I was only being contemptuous.

    Expressing ones aversion over someone doing a copy and paste job, without using quotation marks or proper credit (as you did), isn't being insultive. My words were an appropriate assertion of my disdain. I'm only interested in communicating with people who are intellectually honest. I have no patience with plagiarizers.

    We all have unique knowledge and ideas which we can share with one another. If you have an intelligent opinion, or specific knowledge about a topic, or a question, then by all means put in in print. But if you don't, then pretty please, Sir, with sugar on top, keep your damn trap shut. PLEASE don't copy and paste others ideas attempting to pass them off as your own.

    Was that nice enough?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    I really enjoyed reading this post. Thanks for taking the time!
    You are welcome.

    What I really like about my Montana heritage story is how ole' Uncle Herm sold guns via mail order. Herm would state the condition of the guns he sold in his magazine ads, and very seldom would a customer be unhappy. And if they were he'd simply refund their money. It was the good old days for sure.

    Unfortunately, after Oswald assassinated Kennedy using a rifle he bought through the mail, a national discussion about gun control ensued. Some gun control legislation was introduced in 1963, but none was passed. Then, after the back-to-back assassinations of Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy, Congress passed the Gun Control Act of 1968 into law, banning mail order sales of firearms, etc.

    Then it got even more ugly after Hinckley attempted to assassinate Reagan. Reagan fully recovered but James Brady was not so lucky. He took a bullet to the head that left him permanently paralyzed. Following the attack, Brady became an advocate for handgun control, founding the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. In 1993 President Clinton signed the Brady Bill that required prospective gun owners to pass a federal background check before buying a gun. This was gun registration in disguise. Hitler would have been pleased.

    One can only wonder what will happen if Obummer gets wacked.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Augustin View Post
    I didn't mean to insult you. If I did I appologize. I was only being contemptuous.

    Expressing ones aversion over someone doing a copy and paste job, without using quotation marks or proper credit (as you did), isn't being insultive. My words were an appropriate assertion of my disdain. I'm only interested in communicating with people who are intellectually honest. I have no patience with plagiarizers.

    We all have unique knowledge and ideas which we can share with one another. If you have an intelligent opinion, or specific knowledge about a topic, or a question, then by all means put in in print. But if you don't, then pretty please, Sir, with sugar on top, keep your damn trap shut. PLEASE don't copy and paste others ideas attempting to pass them off as your own.

    Was that nice enough?
    No, not really. You continue down the same path as evidenced by the above - no more free pass, sir.

    I provided a link/cite as the source of the material (in accordance with forum rules) - that is not plagiarism.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    No, not really. (snip) I provided a link/cite as the source of the material (in accordance with forum rules) - that is not plagiarism.
    And that isn't good enough for me.

    True you threw up a link, but you didn't specify your writing was from that site. How hard would it have been to use quotation marks? Or to say something like "According to:", or "From:", or "Per:", or change the font to italics, or anything to indicate that it was a copy and past job??? Did you expect me and others to go to your link and scroll down however far necessary to see if your writing was from that site? Or to see if the link was to provide further information?

    I hold you to professional writing standards as the moderator of this forum - considering its mission of high importance. Literacy is more than just the ability to read and write. Clarity is one of the most important aspects of the art of communicating well. Obscurity - as in failing to show proper credit - is a form of illiteracy.

    Ignoring proper use of quotation marks and/or failing to clearly state that your writings are from a particular website lacks professional quality. Your post that I complained about contained not a minor flaw, but a major one. Standards of professional quality include meeting the expectations of the audience in terms of content and appearance. You failed to meet my expectations.

    You are what I consider a computer geek. You must spend an inordinate amount of time with your ass glued to a chair. Which means I doubt you spend much if any time in the great outdoors doing stuff like shooting, hunting, fishing, hiking, camping, scuba diving, mountain climbing, hang gliding, etc. - things that real men do as opposed to armchair stay-at-home wannabes. You are even scared of drinking raw milk. What a wuss. My advice to you is that you get off your duff and head down to a local dojo and man up.

    And take a college course in professional/business writing etiquette.

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