Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Oakland Police Say Officer Acted Within Policy Detaining Firefighter And His Kids

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,787

    Oakland Police Say Officer Acted Within Policy Detaining Firefighter And His Kids

    "Oakland Police Say Officer Acted Within Policy Detaining Firefighter And His Kids"

    I wasn't aware it was policy to draw firearms upon initial contact with ANY civilian and his two children who are exhibiting zero signs of hostility.

    The Oakland Police Department say's they're "transparent," but refuses to disclose their General Orders. I called them this morning and they responded, "General Orders are for internal use only. They are not for public dissemination."

    Meanwhile, MOST police departments disclose their General Orders, like Davis California, about an hour away from Oakland:

    C. Use of Lethal force is justified in the following circumstances:

    1) An officer may use lethal force to protect themselves or
    others from what they reasonably believe would be an
    immediate threat of death or great bodily injury.

    2) An officer may use lethal force to affect the arrest or
    prevent the escape of a suspected felon where the officer
    has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses an
    imminent threat of death or great bodily injury to the
    officer or others. Under such circumstances, a verbal
    warning should precede the use of lethal force, where
    feasible.

    My police department, for example, posts them online, in two sections: Operations Manual and Field Manual.

    While drawing a firearm is not itself considered lethal force, it is nevertheless totally unwarranted when encountering a calm adult male accompanied by his two children, even if they are entering an open side door to a fire department. Heaven help the poor old grandmother who encounters a "transparent" Oakland police officer while returning through the side door of her house after taking out the garbage.

    My question is this: What's REALLY going on here? Is it poor training? Is it aspirations of being a hero? Is it paralyzing fear?

    If the latter, I would argue while it may have played a role in the cops drawing their firearms on an innocent man and his two children, it would only have resulted in what actually happened if it had been accompanied by poor training.

    I suspect it may very well be that this is how they actually train their officers to respond, that this really is the policy of the Oakland Police Department. If so, they have some very serious system-wide issues.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,161
    Great video of a Sean Hannity Outstanding American!
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Mid-atlantic
    Posts
    1,506
    Not saying it's accurate, but if you listen closely the officer did not draw his firearm, he just had his hand on it. IF there was a call in (which I kind of doubt) of a burglary in progress, then he handled it OK.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216
    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    "Oakland Police Say Officer Acted Within Policy Detaining Firefighter And His Kids"

    I wasn't aware it was policy to draw firearms upon initial contact with ANY civilian and his two children who are exhibiting zero signs of hostility.

    The Oakland Police Department say's they're "transparent," but refuses to disclose their General Orders. I called them this morning and they responded, "General Orders are for internal use only. They are not for public dissemination."

    Meanwhile, MOST police departments disclose their General Orders, like Davis California, about an hour away from Oakland:

    C. Use of Lethal force is justified in the following circumstances:

    1) An officer may use lethal force to protect themselves or
    others from what they reasonably believe would be an
    immediate threat of death or great bodily injury.

    2) An officer may use lethal force to affect the arrest or
    prevent the escape of a suspected felon where the officer
    has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses an
    imminent threat of death or great bodily injury to the
    officer or others. Under such circumstances, a verbal
    warning should precede the use of lethal force, where
    feasible.

    My police department, for example, posts them online, in two sections: Operations Manual and Field Manual.

    While drawing a firearm is not itself considered lethal force, it is nevertheless totally unwarranted when encountering a calm adult male accompanied by his two children, even if they are entering an open side door to a fire department. Heaven help the poor old grandmother who encounters a "transparent" Oakland police officer while returning through the side door of her house after taking out the garbage.

    My question is this: What's REALLY going on here? Is it poor training? Is it aspirations of being a hero? Is it paralyzing fear?

    If the latter, I would argue while it may have played a role in the cops drawing their firearms on an innocent man and his two children, it would only have resulted in what actually happened if it had been accompanied by poor training.

    I suspect it may very well be that this is how they actually train their officers to respond, that this really is the policy of the Oakland Police Department. If so, they have some very serious system-wide issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Not saying it's accurate, but if you listen closely the officer did not draw his firearm, he just had his hand on it. IF there was a call in (which I kind of doubt) of a burglary in progress, then he handled it OK.
    Good catch.

    So the above op hub bub about lethal force is a bit over the top....

    Also the video is titled the detainment was good.... Nothing about pointing guns at kids...

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    "Oakland Police Say Officer Acted Within Policy Detaining Firefighter And His Kids"

    I wasn't aware it was policy to draw firearms upon initial contact with ANY civilian and his two children who are exhibiting zero signs of hostility.

    <snip>.
    I've had cops draw their guns during a routine traffic stop (like 10 MPH speeding) on several occasions.
    (even had a cop say I stole his badge that was on a lanyard..he found it on the ground).

    So why not kids too? And cops are civilians too. I think its goofy.

    I chastise them and told them that their behavior likely increases their chances of getting shot in the head...which I think is true.

    Odd, I never get off with just a warning. But almost always win in court.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 09-04-2014 at 04:14 PM.

  6. #6
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Henrico
    Posts
    2,139
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post

    Odd, I never get off with just a warning. But almost always win in court.
    Same!
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

    μολὼν λαβέ

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  7. #7
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    That video shows nothing. Thinking you will be shot is not the same as the cop pointing a gun at you. The FF thought wrong and has issues with cops in my view.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    That video shows nothing. Thinking you will be shot is not the same as the cop pointing a gun at you. <snip>.
    Which is not the same as being shot either ...

    Of course, a gun pointed at you is worse than you thinking something.

    Brandishing = pointing in my book

  9. #9
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Which is not the same as being shot either ...

    Of course, a gun pointed at you is worse than you thinking something.

    Brandishing = pointing in my book
    Did you see a gun pointed at the FF? I did not, hell, I didn't see much of anything other than darkness and vague shadowy humanoid forms. Cop didn't even curse. Much ado about nothing.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •