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Thread: Dekalb: Confiscated weapon lost

  1. #1
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    Angry Dekalb: Confiscated weapon lost

    To whom it may concern;

    I was arrested 12.06.2006 for a supposed felony. Reproduction of recorded material("entrapment" by homeland security & the MPAA). On 04.02.2009 upon awaiting trial i receive notification from the Dekalb D.A. of Pre-Trail Disposition, dismissed without prosecution. I immediately ask where my property is and when I can retrieve it.

    Property Being:
    1 Cobra Arms .45
    1 Magazine
    6 Rounds of ammo
    1 Second Chance - Ballistic Vest
    1 Leather Coat
    1 Louis Vuitton Bag

    He states I would be able to retrieve it after paperwork for the trial is processed. Delkab property room states the property was signed out by and investigator from the DA's office and notes all. But upon contacting the Dekalb D.A. chief investigator he says his office never picked it up, so the police have it. End result my items and weapon are lost. No one will give any course of action and there is no public chain of command that I know of. Can anyone help?

    I have a copy of the property sheet showing the check in and out of the property but where to go from here.
    Please advise,
    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 'Morgan Monroe' View Post
    To whom it may concern;

    I was arrested 12.06.2006 for a supposed felony. Reproduction of recorded material("entrapment" by homeland security & the MPAA). On 04.02.2009 upon awaiting trial i receive notification from the Dekalb D.A. of Pre-Trail Disposition, dismissed without prosecution. I immediately ask where my property is and when I can retrieve it.

    Property Being:
    1 Cobra Arms .45
    1 Magazine
    6 Rounds of ammo
    1 Second Chance - Ballistic Vest
    1 Leather Coat
    1 Louis Vuitton Bag

    He states I would be able to retrieve it after paperwork for the trial is processed. Delkab property room states the property was signed out by and investigator from the DA's office and notes all. But upon contacting the Dekalb D.A. chief investigator he says his office never picked it up, so the police have it. End result my items and weapon are lost. No one will give any course of action and there is no public chain of command that I know of. Can anyone help?

    I have a copy of the property sheet showing the check in and out of the property but where to go from here.
    Please advise,
    Thanks in advance.
    You wait 8 years from the arrest and 5 years from the disposition before asking for help/answers.....Really?

    At this point I would have more questions than answers.

    Suggest you contact an attorney - initial consultations are generally free.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Well, the statue of limitations (SOL) might be an issue. Of course, it maybe that the statue of limitations(if reached) is an affirmative defense that must be plead in an answer to a complaint and is waive-able (some states, like mine, its waive-able; others it is not waive-able and can be raised at any time).

    This could be a small claims case, maybe. I have seen cases that were filed beyond the SOL and the defendant raised it at trial - but they did not raise it in their answer, so it was deemed waived by the court.

    So just because its a late post does not necessarily mean it matters in the end.

    Who to sue? Sue both...let them hash it out in court.


    SOL is always interesting ... found this case that would lead me to lean to the waive-able nature in GA:
    http://scholar.google.com/scholar_ca...en&as_sdt=4,11
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 09-04-2014 at 03:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    You wait 8 years from the arrest and 5 years from the disposition before asking for help/answers.....Really?

    At this point I would have more questions than answers.

    Suggest you contact an attorney - initial consultations are generally free.
    No i have been actively calling and being told its being looked into, I have showed up at the office only to be distracted by a beautiful lady investigator with soft voice and a pretty smile, assuring me all is well and they're looking into it. I get my contact card and nothing at all. Honestly I figured they would have contacted me, as many times as I left contact info. Although the DA's office did call me four times to tell me they couldn't find it and to check back with PD. Then PD says contact DA. Its been back and forth so long I honestly gave up on more than one occasion due to my frustration with LEO / elected officials and my lack of ability to do anything about it. Leaving with a "WHERES MY STUFF!" sort of an attitude...they say they cant find it I say I ok....

    I find it strange that length of time negates responsibility for possession of another's property. I mean property logged in as evidence can remain in evidence for like ever... Its not like those items would spoil, so in conclusion the real question is not why I am still looking after so long? As much as it is why have they not found it after so long???

    Seeing as to how there's a missing firearm involved I would think someone would be at least as mildly concerned, as the owner missing it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Well, the statue of limitations (SOL) might be an issue. Of course, it maybe that the statue of limitations(if reached) is an affirmative defense that must be plead in an answer to a complaint and is waive-able (some states, like mine, its waive-able; others it is not waive-able and can be raised at any time).

    This could be a small claims case, maybe. I have seen cases that were filed beyond the SOL and the defendant raised it at trial - but they did not raise it in their answer, so it was deemed waived by the court.

    So just because its a late post does not necessarily mean it matters in the end.

    Who to sue? Sue both...let them hash it out in court.


    SOL is always interesting ... found this case that would lead me to lean to the waive-able nature in GA:
    http://scholar.google.com/scholar_ca...en&as_sdt=4,11
    Thanks that helps... now i just have to figure out how to sue the PD and the DA and still reside in the state... without provocation...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 'Morgan Monroe' View Post
    Thanks that helps... now i just have to figure out how to sue the PD and the DA and still reside in the state... without provocation...
    I would also check and see if you have to file anything with the court that dismissed your case. You may need to do this first. Its usually a simple form to complete and file with the clerk but this varies with the jurisdiction.

    You don't want to lose a good case because of a technicality. (I like winning them that way though!)

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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    Call your local FBI district office and report that a uniformed police officer stole your pistol and you feel uncomfortable calling your local law enforcement agencies regarding the matter.

    They will find your pistol.

    You may still have lots of paperwork hoops to jump through, but at least you will know where your property is located.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I would also check and see if you have to file anything with the court that dismissed your case. You may need to do this first. Its usually a simple form to complete and file with the clerk but this varies with the jurisdiction.

    You don't want to lose a good case because of a technicality. (I like winning them that way though!)
    Oh yes, charged many times never convicted... thread through the loophole

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlite27 View Post
    Call your local FBI district office and report that a uniformed police officer stole your pistol and you feel uncomfortable calling your local law enforcement agencies regarding the matter.

    They will find your pistol.

    You may still have lots of paperwork hoops to jump through, but at least you will know where your property is located.
    In Georgia that would be GBI. Good idea i know there has to be some central authority... but the loss is between the state court and the County police... oh so confused...

  10. #10
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 'Morgan Monroe' View Post
    In Georgia that would be GBI. Good idea i know there has to be some central authority... but the loss is between the state court and the County police... oh so confused...
    No. The FBI remains the FBI regardless of what state the office is located in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlite27 View Post
    No. The FBI remains the FBI regardless of what state the office is located in.
    Correct. The state Bureaus are not part of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The actual role of the State Bureaus can vary from state to state. For example, here's Colorado's listed info on the topic:

    • Suppress crime, promote safety and security, and manage statewide criminal justice information.


    • Deliver excellence in criminal and background investigations, forensic/laboratory services, and comprehensive criminal justice data management.


    • Build trusting relationships and partnerships within the state and in local communities to improve the quality of life in Colorado.


    It seems (to me; only an observation) that background investigations and forensics appear to be the bulk of their activities in Colorado. Georgia's Bureau may, and probably does, differ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlite27 View Post
    Call your local FBI district office and report that a uniformed police officer stole your pistol and you feel uncomfortable calling your local law enforcement agencies regarding the matter.

    They will find your pistol.

    You may still have lots of paperwork hoops to jump through, but at least you will know where your property is located.
    Or more likely you get arrested for filing a false report

  13. #13
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    Any charges relating to filing a false police report would have to provide evidence the person charged knew the testimony provided in the report was fabricated and fraudulent when submitted.

    Can the prosecutor provide evidence the OP knows for a fact his firearm is not stolen?

    As the person filing a report, the OP has evidence that his property, having documented chain of custody paperwork, was signed out by a detective and its wherabouts is undetermined. The chain of custody ends before the link can be closed back to the rightful owner.

    In my opinion, this means "stolen property".

    Now, if a police report is filed.....what evidence is there that the OP is knowingly fabricating a willfully false account?

    If charges are warranted for filing a false police report, tell me how to prove that the OP actually knows where his firearm is and knows for a fact that it is not stolen.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    I think there might be precedent for calling confiscation and "losing it', could be called 'stealing'. There was a case where a LEO was charged with kidnapping for falsely picking someone up and threatening arrest and it stuck.

    We're just speculating here and nobody is suggesting filing a false report.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlite27 View Post
    Any charges relating to filing a false police report would have to provide evidence the person charged knew the testimony provided in the report was fabricated and fraudulent when submitted.

    Can the prosecutor provide evidence the OP knows for a fact his firearm is not stolen?

    As the person filing a report, the OP has evidence that his property, having documented chain of custody paperwork, was signed out by a detective and its wherabouts is undetermined. The chain of custody ends before the link can be closed back to the rightful owner.

    In my opinion, this means "stolen property".

    Now, if a police report is filed.....what evidence is there that the OP is knowingly fabricating a willfully false account?

    If charges are warranted for filing a false police report, tell me how to prove that the OP actually knows where his firearm is and knows for a fact that it is not stolen.
    Stolen and lost are not the same thing.

    Would a reasonable person believe that the DA or ADA willingly stole the firearm? No.

    Would a reasonable person believe that a detective with a clear chain of custody stole the firearm? No.

    No replace stole with lost.

    Would a reasonable person belive the ada or detective lost (meaning the gun is in some drawer or shelf somewhere with the wrong report attached to it) said firearm? Sure.

    Hence the reason why catch words like "stolen" don't work....

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    Is there a law with a time period that must pass that directs LE to destroy a unclaimed firearm?

    If you have documentation that the property was checked out, what is the name on the check out document?

    Do you have documentation that displays your efforts these past six years and the responses by the respective agencies?

    It may be that the property was disposed of as required by law. However, if the property was checked out where did it go after that?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Is there a law with a time period that must pass that directs LE to destroy a unclaimed firearm?

    If you have documentation that the property was checked out, what is the name on the check out document?

    Do you have documentation that displays your efforts these past six years and the responses by the respective agencies?

    It may be that the property was disposed of as required by law. However, if the property was checked out where did it go after that?
    Good point. If the firearm was no longer needed as evidence then it could have started the time limit for pick up before destruction. That is if that locality even has one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Good point. If the firearm was no longer needed as evidence then it could have started the time limit for pick up before destruction. That is if that locality even has one.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    Exactly. It may be, unfortunately, nothing more that a bureaucratic drone not following policy and following the law. Bureaucrats make mistakes all the time. Sucks that it happens to anyone.

    Confiscation of firearms and ammunition, when--exceptions.-571.095.

    Upon conviction for or attempting to commit a felony in violation of any law perpetrated in whole or in part by the use of a firearm, the court may, in addition to the penalty provided by law for such offense, order the confiscation and disposal or sale or trade to a licensed firearms dealer of firearms and ammunition used in the commission of the crime or found in the possession or under the immediate control of the defendant at the time of his or her arrest. The proceeds of any sale or gains from trade shall be the property of the police department or sheriff's department responsible for the defendant's arrest or the confiscation of the firearms and ammunition. If such firearms or ammunition are not the property of the convicted felon, they shall be returned to their rightful owner if he or she is known and was not a participant in the crime. Any proceeds collected under this section shall be deposited with the municipality or by the county treasurer into the county sheriff's revolving fund established in section 50.535.
    Not saying that the law in the OP's state is the same as this law in MO.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Stolen and lost are not the same thing.

    Would a reasonable person believe that the DA or ADA willingly stole the firearm? No.

    Would a reasonable person believe that a detective with a clear chain of custody stole the firearm? YES

    No replace stole with lost.

    Would a reasonable person belive the ada or detective lost (meaning the gun is in some drawer or shelf somewhere with the wrong report attached to it) said firearm? Sure.

    Hence the reason why catch words like "stolen" don't work....

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    I personally know of an Indiana state cop that lost his job because he "lost" a gun in evedence. I also know of a city cop who went to jail for casually walking out of a bank with a bag of money.

    http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/2460047...n-theft-charge

    http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/C...274016051.html

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...ba3_story.html

    http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/tag...cers-arrested/

    http://www.necn.com/news/new-england...270124241.html

    http://wtnh.com/2014/08/06/police-ha...-from-walmart/

  20. #20
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    Cool story.

    Doesn't make it more of a reasonable idea then the one oc4me put forth or the one I put forth.



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    Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.
    If malice is evident it will be manifest. But, I wouldn't burn up too many brain cells on this after six years. New, pistol and etc.

    Lesson learned? Be more proactive and document, document, document.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    I don't know that 'intent' is relevant here, but IANAL.

    The idea put forth is if something is confiscated without cause, it is by definition 'theft'. If something is confiscated without cause, kept then with no documentation is not able to be found then that is evidence of stealing.

    If a LEO puts you in his car and drives off without RAS, no crime committed, and you do not give consent or against your will, it's kidnapping. Angry (perhaps off-duty?) cop has done this recently and was charged, IIRC.

    If the equipment was destroyed there should be reproducible records of such. We just can't have things being taken and then disappear without consequences.

    But, true, six years, it's more a lessons learned than actionable in this specific situation.

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    Intent, mens rea is an element of crime in general. Conversion is usually an element of theft. Nor am I an attorney, but that's no excuse.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Cool story.

    Doesn't make it more of a reasonable idea then the one oc4me put forth or the one I put forth.



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    You put forth the idea a LEO would never steal, I merely put forth proof they do.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    You put forth the idea a LEO would never steal, I merely put forth proof they do.
    Please quote and bold the part where I said "Leo would never steal".

    Pretty positive I said it was more LIKELY that the gun was lost then stolen. As in a probability. Never even said it had anything to do with LEOs.... In fact my logic applies to the DA also.


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