Caves

I recently visited and toured the caves near Cave Junction. The gift shop/visitor center was posted but was told that I could not carry in the cave. Had to lock up in the car. Is a cave considered a federal building?

JohnM15A said:

I recently visited and toured the caves near Cave Junction. The gift shop/visitor center was posted but was told that I could not carry in the cave. Had to lock up in the car. Is a cave considered a federal building?

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Is this a state or national park ??
if it is a public place and you have a chl, you are exempt, you should be ok to carry your firearm and they cant stop you by law if I`m correct.
I looked it up and it says it is a national monument, so I believe you have the right to carry .
Did you see any signs stating the laws and any no guns/firearms signs ??

"Touring Oregon Caves has been a tradition for more than a century. Today, tours are conducted by The National Park Service. Guides ."

Dave H. said:

Is this a state or national park ??
if it is a public place and you have a chl, you are exempt, you should be ok to carry your firearm and they cant stop you by law if I`m correct.
I looked it up and it says it is a national monument, so I believe you have the right to carry .
Did you see any signs stating the laws and any no guns/firearms signs ??

"Touring Oregon Caves has been a tradition for more than a century. Today, tours are conducted by The National Park Service. Guides ."

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The only sign was on thew visitor center door which is correct because it is a federal building. My question is for the cave. The guide said that not guns were allowed in the cave.

JohnM15A said:

...Is a cave considered a federal building?

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This is a good question. If it has locked doors and has federal employees doing guided tours, I can see them applying the "facility" term.

That said, we need test cases for the "lawful purposes" exception, as defense is a lawful purpose.

The cave entrances are all locked and no one goes into or out of the cave without a ranger guiding them. The ranger actually unlocks the gate to lead the group in and then locks the gate behind him. When we got to the end of the tour he would unlock the gate to let us out and then re-lock the gate.

The ranger did not state the reason for not allowing firearms and I didn't ask. There was lot of restriction because they didn't want to contaminate the cave with outside fungus and whatnot. I would guess that the bang of a 45 might weaken or collapse a wall or ceiling...

Yet, the march of many feet adorned with shoes will not harm the cave ecosystem. If the cave can only be accessed through a manned building, then no guns. Ya gotta go down the trail a ways, across the parking lot, it ain't no building.

I suspect that the claim of building is a intentional and unlawful act, though the on-site peon may only be following policy.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-111hr627enr/pdf/BILLS-111hr627enr.pdf

OC for ME said:

Yet, the march of many feet adorned with shoes will not harm the cave ecosystem. If the cave can only be accessed through a manned building, then no guns. Ya gotta go down the trail a ways, across the parking lot, it ain't no building.

I suspect that the claim of building is a intentional and unlawful act, though the on-site peon may only be following policy.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-111hr627enr/pdf/BILLS-111hr627enr.pdf

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There is a need to look further.

"For national security reasons, guns cannot be carried into federal facilities within national parks. Notice of this rule will be clearly displayed outside all federal facilities."
http://www.nps.gov/grca/parkmgmt/upload/Firearms-in-IMRparks2-2010.pdf

'Facility' has been defined elsewhere as any building or part of a building where federal employees regularly work.

The included phrase 'part thereof ' is what is being interpreted incorrectly IMO. Believe the intent was to restrict in that section of a multiple use building, rather that disallow guns in a structure that is not a complete building in and of itself.

(g) As used in this section: (1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/930