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Thread: USAF requires enlistment to an oath containing the word "god" -TSGT refuses

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    USAF requires enlistment to an oath containing the word "god" -TSGT refuses

    http://news.yahoo.com/atheist-must-s...9UkzAA5rLQtDMD

    The US Air Force has told a sergeant he will have to leave the military unless he agrees to take an oath with the phrase "so help me God," officials said Tuesday.



    I don't see the Sgt winning his case.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Eay-peasy. Someone in the AF is being a Richard Cranium because they think they can.

    When I am called to court, or need a document notarized, or anyhing else that requires a response "under oath" I remind the person that I am allowed to make an affirmation and it is just as legall binding.

    Here's the current text of the oath on enlistment: http://www.history.army.mil/html/faq/oaths.html . Note that parenthetical "or affirm" - making affirmation negates needing to utter the "So help me God" statement at the end and a short discussion with someone in JAG should clear it up.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    http://www.militaryspot.com/air-forc...of-enlistment/
    term 'so help me God' is at the end of the oath

    ipse
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Amish won't swear or affirm. All they will say is they will tell the truth. I've been in court a number of times with Amish and they just won't swear or affirm.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Amish won't swear or affirm. All they will say is they will tell the truth. I've been in court a number of times with Amish and they just won't swear or affirm.
    +1 The history behind the 5th amendment is very intriguing I am reading a book now recommended by Citizen "The Origin of the Fifth Amendment" and much of it was a fight against forced oaths. ( ex officio for instance)
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    +1 The history behind the 5th amendment is very intriguing I am reading a book now recommended by Citizen "The Origin of the Fifth Amendment" and much of it was a fight against forced oaths. ( ex officio for instance)
    I think in Israel ... anything you say cannot be used against you in their court system ...

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I think in Israel ... anything you say cannot be used against you in their court system ...
    Thats what I hear. It should be like that here.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    It was made very clear to us when I took my military oaths, that "affirm" was acceptable as a substitute for "swear," and "so help me God" was completely optional. After all, all it means is a request to your God to help you with the oath you just took; Grammatically, it wouldn't be part of the oath, anyway.

    People that refuse oaths (like the Pledge) are usually the people that actually paid attention to the words and while they object (usually technically correctly) to the words, they have every intention of being a model person in the performance of their duties. Many of those who take them didn't, yet no one cares.
    Last edited by MAC702; 09-09-2014 at 11:46 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Thats what I hear. It should be like that here.
    Hooray ! Someone who takes notice of common facts. (no demand for a cite)

    תודה !!

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Hooray ! Someone who takes notice of common facts. (no demand for a cite)

    תודה !!
    Cite.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Cite.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    Your killing me...

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    *You're

    just for fun.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Your killing me...
    Quote Originally Posted by hafnhaf View Post
    *You're

    just for fun.
    Ha!

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    It was made very clear to us when I took my military oaths, that "affirm" was acceptable as a substitute for "swear," and "so help me God" was completely optional. After all, all it means is a request to your God to help you with the oath you just took; Grammatically, it wouldn't be part of the oath, anyway.

    People that refuse oaths (like the Pledge) are usually the people that actually paid attention to the words and while they object (usually technically correctly) to the words, they have every intention of being a model person in the performance of their duties. Many of those who take them didn't, yet no one cares.
    I was sworn in four times (DEP, Ship-out date, First Enlistment at AG, and at 2nd Enlistment). Each time, it was clear to me that I did NOT have to utter the last phrase, nor was it expected of me.

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