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Flying with Firearms, first timer

mobiushky

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
830
Location
Alaska (ex-Colorado)
I read a bunch of posts on Google after posting that said you could send to yourself for under $50, using UPS or FedEx. Just adding a possible option to flying with your gear and the danger of having it stolen by TSA.

Both UPS and FedEx have a new policy that you can only send firearms overnight and if you are shipping them yourself they must be sent to an FFL. Now I recently asked an FFL about this and his response was interesting. You can technically send a firearm to yourself without an FFL per the ATF, but the new policies of the carriers means an FFL will be involved. Good luck getting them to not involve one. The FFL I talked to said that unless you have a very good relationship with your FFL, they are NOT going to be very happy about receiving a package that is not addressed to them. And they will not be real interested in leaving said package unopened. According to this FFL, if the package is addressed to the FFL, it's a transfer. Even if you are the intended recipient. So if it's a transfer, it goes in his book. Which, depending on the state you are sending too (Colorado for instance) means 4473 form and background check to get your already owned firearm back from the FFL. None of which is required by the ATF.
 
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since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
According to this FFL, if the package is addressed to the FFL, it's a transfer.

Try the following approach:

mobiushky
c/o FFL Holder
101 Main Street
Anytown, US 12345​

c/o means "care of" and its use in this manner represents the FFL Holder as the addressee and interim recipient while differentiating "mobiushky" as the final recipient.

Thus, no transfer.
 
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mobiushky

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
830
Location
Alaska (ex-Colorado)
Try the following approach:

mobiushky
c/o FFL Holder
101 Main Street
Anytown, US 12345​

c/o means "care of" and its use in this manner represents the FFL Holder as the addressee and interim recipient while differentiating "mobiushky" as the final recipient.

Thus, no transfer.

The FFL I spoke with said there is no way he would accept a package like that without knowing the sender/recipient well. He essentially said that he would not feel comfortable with allowing a package to be delivered to his place of business without first checking that it wasn't stolen. His license was more important to him than risking any funny business. Unless he knew the person and trusted them with his business.

Granted, that's not in any laws, but it's how he does his business. So I guess it depends on the FFL.

Here's the direct quote from the message he sent me:

"Law says it needs to be shipped "adult signature required" and UPS is requiring that it be shipped to an FFL. You could legally ship it to yourself "in care of" an FFL and the FFL could hand you your unopened box with a gun in it. But as an FFL this would dumb as I have no way to prove that package I signed for acutely contained a gun you already owned and are not prohibited from having. So, no FFL that you don't know extremely well will do this . . . they will want a 4473 and you can't do a handgun 4473 in a state you don't live in. "

And considering I just stepped off a plane about 2 hours ago and picked up a case with multiple toys inside from the counter, I'd say fly with them if you can...
 
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since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
"Law says it needs to be shipped "adult signature required" and UPS is requiring that it be shipped to an FFL. You could legally ship it to yourself "in care of" an FFL and the FFL could hand you your unopened box with a gun in it. But as an FFL this would dumb as I have no way to prove that package I signed for acutely contained a gun you already owned and are not prohibited from having. So, no FFL that you don't know extremely well will do this . . . they will want a 4473 and you can't do a handgun 4473 in a state you don't live in. "

So? Let him open the package and verify the contents.

As far as the 4473, let the sending FFL verify what's being sent.

And considering I just stepped off a plane about 2 hours ago and picked up a case with multiple toys inside from the counter, I'd say fly with them if you can...

Agreed. That's optimal.
 

lockman

State Researcher
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Messages
1,193
Location
Elgin, Illinois, USA
The FFL I spoke with said there is no way he would accept a package like that without knowing the sender/recipient well. He essentially said that he would not feel comfortable with allowing a package to be delivered to his place of business without first checking that it wasn't stolen. His license was more important to him than risking any funny business. Unless he knew the person and trusted them with his business.

Granted, that's not in any laws, but it's how he does his business. So I guess it depends on the FFL.

Here's the direct quote from the message he sent me:

"Law says it needs to be shipped "adult signature required" and UPS is requiring that it be shipped to an FFL. You could legally ship it to yourself "in care of" an FFL and the FFL could hand you your unopened box with a gun in it. But as an FFL this would dumb as I have no way to prove that package I signed for acutely contained a gun you already owned and are not prohibited from having. So, no FFL that you don't know extremely well will do this . . . they will want a 4473 and you can't do a handgun 4473 in a state you don't live in. "

And considering I just stepped off a plane about 2 hours ago and picked up a case with multiple toys inside from the counter, I'd say fly with them if you can...

How often does the FFL inspect the contents of packages before signing for them? My experience in shipping and receiving is that you except all packages unless you know of a specific one that's coming that presents a problem and have flagged it for special treatment or refusal (not FFL related though).
 

Superlite27

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
1,277
Location
God's Country, Missouri
Let me get this straight....

It is being suggested that someone package their firearm, address it to themselves, take it to a FFL, have them send it to a receiving FFL ahead of one's arrival so that they can take a trip to that FFL and take posession of their own firearm at their destination.

Then, upon return home, repackaging their firearm, taking it back to the FFL in order for it to be returned to the hometown FFL so that the traveler can get his firearm back home.....

....in order to avoid the complicated hassle of putting their unloaded firearm in a locked, hardsided case inside their checked bag?

Is that accurate?
 

Maverick9

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
1,404
Location
Mid-atlantic
^^ That's to avoid having it stolen by the TSA.

From atf.gov:
6. May I lawfully ship a firearm to myself in a different State?
Any person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in the care of another person in the State where
he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity.

The package should be addressed to the owner “in the care of” the out-of-State resident.
Upon reaching its destination, persons other than the owner must not open the package or take possession of the firearm.

http://www.atf.gov/files/firearms/industry/0501-firearms-top-10-qas.pdf
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
^^ That's to avoid having it stolen by the TSA.

Which probably carries a similar likelihood to your gun being lost or stolen by UPS. Plus you're probably talking about an expense of something like 15% of the value of the gun – each leg (for overnight shipping).

I've flown dozens of times, never had a gun stolen. Plus I've brought many pounds of long guns and ammo. Glad I saved myself hundreds of dollars instead of being irrationally paranoid.
 

since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
When you declare a firearm at check-in, you begin a series of events which leads to the establishment of a trail of receipts. While this won't eliminate the possibility of it being stolen, it minimizes the likelihood, and places the financial burden of any loss on the airline, up to a certain point set by the airline. That point various, so check with the airlines well before your flight. Also, make sure your insurance covers loss due to theft during shipment, and ensure your deductible picks up at or below where the airline's coverage leaves off.
 

bomber

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2009
Messages
499
Location
, ,
Which probably carries a similar likelihood to your gun being lost or stolen by UPS. Plus you're probably talking about an expense of something like 15% of the value of the gun – each leg (for overnight shipping).

I've flown dozens of times, never had a gun stolen. Plus I've brought many pounds of long guns and ammo. Glad I saved myself hundreds of dollars instead of being irrationally paranoid.

Im not saying your wrong, I would just like to point out what I said earlier, the first time I flew with my gun when I went to pick it up at the counter, the guy tried to give me an additional gun case that didnt belong to me.
 
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