View Poll Results: Does the state promote patriotism to benefit itself?

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Thread: Does the state promote patriotism to benefit itself?

  1. #1
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    Does the state promote patriotism to benefit itself?

    I think that the answer to this question is clearly "yes." The state shoves patriotism down the throats of public school children. Public schools (and highly regulated private schools) teach young children to obey authority without question, and that they live in the best country in the world. The mainstream media (aka presstitutes) gives the government's perspective on all sorts of issues, and refuses to cover issues that make the state look bad (they were cheerleaders for the invasion of Iraq, they demean those who question the government's version of events in any given incident, etc.).

  2. #2
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    This seems like such an obvious question... But unfortunately I guess I wouldn't be surprised to see people answer other than yes.
    Advocate freedom please

  3. #3
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Who's "the state"? Never met him/her.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  4. #4
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Patriotism is not love of country, if by “country” you mean scenery—amber waves of grain, purple mountain majesty, and the like. Almost every country has pretty collections of rocks, water, and stuff that people grow and eat. If that’s what patriotism is all about, then Americans have precious little for which we can claim any special or unique love. And surely, patriotism cannot mean giving one’s life for a river or a mountain range.

    Patriotism is not blind trust in anything our leaders tell us or do. That just replaces some lofty concepts with mindless goose-stepping.

    Patriotism is not simply showing up to vote. You need to know a lot more about what motivates a voter before you judge his patriotism. He might be casting a ballot because he just wants something at someone else’s expense. Maybe he doesn’t much care where the politician he’s hiring gets it. Remember Dr. Johnson’s wisdom: “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.”

    Waving the flag can be an outward sign of patriotism, but let’s not cheapen the term by ever suggesting that it’s anything more than a sign. And while it’s always fitting to mourn those who lost their lives simply because they resided on American soil, that too does not define patriotism


    http://www.fee.org/the_freeman/detai...-of-patriotism

    Fascism

    1."Everything in the state". The Government is supreme and the country is all-encompasing, and all within it must conform to the ruling body, often a dictator.
    2."Nothing outside the state". The country must grow and the implied goal of any fascist nation is to rule the world, and have every human submit to the government.
    3."Nothing against the state". Any type of questioning the government is not to be tolerated. If you do not see things our way, you are wrong. If you do not agree with the government, you cannot be allowed to live and taint the minds of the rest of the good citizens.
    The use of militarism was implied only as a means to accomplish one of the three above principles, mainly to keep the people and rest of the world in line. Fascist countries are known for their harmony and lack of internal strife. There are no conflicting parties or elections in fascist countries.


    Benito Mussolini

    Please learn the difference...
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  5. #5
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Who's "the state"? Never met him/her.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    You've gotta be kidding me..... The answer to the poll is obvious. Take your mud to someone else's water.
    Advocate freedom please

  6. #6
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    You've gotta be kidding me..... The answer to the poll is obvious. Take your mud to someone else's water.
    Good non answer....

    Figures.

    I guess my point went right over your head.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  7. #7
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    One man's expression of his patriotism.....and it wasn't forced on him.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0fQd858cRc

    This country is not perfect, but I will stand beside this man before I will with those that sling sarcasm and negativity around their shoulders like a cloak of superiority. That is indicative of their baggage - speaks volumes.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  8. #8
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    i just wish state hater you would give this subjective BS a rest...

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 09-13-2014 at 06:43 AM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

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  9. #9
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    One man's expression of his patriotism.....and it wasn't forced on him.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0fQd858cRc

    This country is not perfect, but I will stand beside this man before I will with those that sling sarcasm and negativity around their shoulders like a cloak of superiority. That is indicative of their baggage - speaks volumes.
    OP's baggage is irrelevant and off topic. A very simply question was asked and it has a simple, obvious answer. You may not like the negativity, I may not either, but the answer to the question is incredibly easy.
    Advocate freedom please

  10. #10
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    OP's baggage is irrelevant and off topic. A very simply question was asked and it has a simple, obvious answer. You may not like the negativity, I may not either, but the answer to the question is incredibly easy.
    The OP's baggage IS the point - so far it has been his sole contribution to this forum.

    Poles with only one answer correct answer have no redeeming purpose IMO - I'll not be led by my nose. Look beyond the question.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    The OP's baggage IS the point - so far it has been his sole contribution to this forum. Poles with only one answer correct answer have no redeeming purpose IMO - I'll not be led by my nose. Look beyond the question.
    The observation on "baggage" is of huge significance to this forum.

    We brag as we hoist our baggage, but fail to credit our giant forefathers on whose shoulders we rest our feet of clay.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  12. #12
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    The OP's baggage IS the point - so far it has been his sole contribution to this forum.

    Poles with only one answer correct answer have no redeeming purpose IMO - I'll not be led by my nose. Look beyond the question.
    Meh. Just re-read the OP, appears to be factually correct on all points. I agree with it. Led by your nose? Give me a break. A simple, "yes that's all true, but let's not be negative about it" would probably do a lot more good than trying to put the OP down, purporting that he's just slinging baggage around the forum.
    Advocate freedom please

  13. #13
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    Meh. Just re-read the OP, appears to be factually correct on all points. I agree with it. Led by your nose? Give me a break. A simple, "yes that's all true, but let's not be negative about it" would probably do a lot more good than trying to put the OP down, purporting that he's just slinging baggage around the forum.
    The thread followed OP's remarks in an attempt to insult other members. It backfired, this thread was a clear continuation of those remarks. But the OP is incorrect, patriotism is not what he described, he clearly is describing fascism. A patriot is about freedom and liberty, and IMO about acceptance of others and their opinions which it appears he is completely devoid.

    Grape is on the money, this thread is about trolling. There is nothing wrong with respecting or even loving the flag but hating fascism, IMO the flag represents the people of this nation. Just like refugee Cubans display the Cuban flag. If anybody thinks that they risked their life to be free of communism, yet they love the country they left makes them a communist subject to the Cuban government they are idiots.

    The jury is still out though on the OP, we have to see if he continues to be a provocateur.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  14. #14
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    You might look to the roots of and the meaning of the word patriot.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  15. #15
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    The State wants people to believe patriotism is something it isn't. Statism, jingoism, nationalism, social contract etc.......nothing to do with being a patriot.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  16. #16
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Voted no because I think statism and nationalism are shoved down kids' throats by the state for their benefit and to make it appear that being a statist = being a patriot.
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

    μολὼν λαβέ

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Still trying to figure out this "state" being. Since that matters.... A lot.


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    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  18. #18
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Don't think too hard, I wouldn't want you to keel over and croak!
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  19. #19
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    Safe!
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  20. #20
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    Don't think too hard, I wouldn't want you to keel over and croak!
    Or trip and fall chewing gum...
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  21. #21
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    You've gotta be kidding me..... The answer to the poll is obvious. Take your mud to someone else's water.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    Don't think too hard, I wouldn't want you to keel over and croak!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Safe!
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Or trip and fall chewing gum...
    So one legit question..... And 4 non answers.

    A common tactic is when someone doesn't know the answer is to simply attack the person asking the question.

    Let me break it down a bit more since it may have been a bit too complicated....

    Who is the OP referring to? The term "state" can mean many things.

    Is it referencing the United States government? Ok... Just federal? State level (see the different states yet?) Local?

    To use the term "state" as some abstract term that has a life of its own is false. Its akin to using the term "boogey man" or "bad guy". Incredibly vague that could many things. So to ask a very pointed question without defining the terms is well.... Dumb.

    As already pointed out the question wasn't posed to illicit any intelligent discussion, response, or even a debate.

    It was merely more regurgitation of same rhetoric designed to incite like minded fellows to slap him on the back. "Yea man" "your so right brother" " I hate them too good post!!"

    And sadly.... Some fell for it...

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  22. #22
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Still trying to figure out this "state" being. Since that matters.... A lot.


    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    Was there a question here? YOU cannot even comprehend your own posts.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  23. #23
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Primus, you always play dumb. That's your game, and that's why you don't get a real answer. Learn to use Google, ya blithering smart guy!

    "adjective
    modifier noun: state

    1.
    of, provided by, or concerned with the civil government of a country.
    "the future of state education"

    It's really not that hard to understand, man. You really need the term, "state," defined for you?
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

    μολὼν λαβέ

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    Primus, you always play dumb. That's your game, and that's why you don't get a real answer. Learn to use Google, ya blithering smart guy!

    "adjective
    modifier noun: state

    1.
    of, provided by, or concerned with the civil government of a country.
    "the future of state education"

    It's really not that hard to understand, man. You really need the term, "state," defined for you?
    Cool story bro....


    Still haven't answered my simple broken down question.

    I'm aware of what "state" means. Hence me asking.... Federal, state, or local.... Which no one has answered. "Civil government" can be any one of those.

    Put more effort into making sense and less on attacking. It does wonders for the cause.

    If you feel I'm "playing dumb" and won't give me a "real answer" based on that then that makes you just as "bad" as me. Ever hear the two wrongs don't make a right saying?

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  25. #25
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    "Civil government" can be any one of those.
    Ding ding ding ding ding!
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

    μολὼν λαβέ

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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