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solus

Regular Member
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Aug 22, 2013
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9,315
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here nc
So if a dealer does not have the 4473 completed then a purchase has not occurred?

Oh pray tell us, one who has admitted several times in his postings to forum membership he has not followed BATF regulations during your 20+ years as an FFL...when,in your humble opinion and based on your broad based experience, is the firearm purchase consummated with an FFL?

can you provide a legal example of when JQP consumer can receive a firearm from a FFL w/o completing said 4473?

i for one await, with bated breath, your enlightened response, i am sure it will be coupled with, as standards established and dictated by forum rules, an appropriate cite.

ipse
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
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Jan 14, 2012
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Oh pray tell us, one who has admitted several times in his postings to forum membership he has not followed BATF regulations during your 20+ years as an FFL...when,in your humble opinion and based on your broad based experience, is the firearm purchase consummated with an FFL?

can you provide a legal example of when JQP consumer can receive a firearm from a FFL w/o completing said 4473?

i for one await, with bated breath, your enlightened response, i am sure it will be coupled with, as standards established and dictated by forum rules, an appropriate cite.

ipse


Well, instead .. I will ask you .. if a 4473 is not completed, would that be something to hang on the buyer or the ffl?

A sale can still occur w/o a 4473 being completed is the basis of my last post. And you must admit, it is possible.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
Well, instead .. I will ask you .. if a 4473 is not completed, would that be something to hang on the buyer or the ffl?

A sale can still occur w/o a 4473 being completed is the basis of my last post. And you must admit, it is possible.

sorry it can't occur since the purchaser is required to complete and sign their portions of the AFT form 4473 which is what i stated in my post! but let me check to assure i am not mispeaking...

yepper......quote: "..."purchase" doesn't actually occur until such time as you fill out the ATF Form 4473 ..."

Once the purchaser signs i could care less what the FFL does w/their portion...that is between themselves and the good agents at BATF when they come in for an inspection.

ipse
 

davidmcbeth

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sorry it can't occur since the purchaser is required to complete and sign their portions of the AFT form 4473 which is what i stated in my post! but let me check to assure i am not mispeaking...

yepper......quote: "..."purchase" doesn't actually occur until such time as you fill out the ATF Form 4473 ..."

Once the purchaser signs i could care less what the FFL does w/their portion...that is between themselves and the good agents at BATF when they come in for an inspection.

ipse

4473 is not a bill of sale, it's simply a firearms transfer record...

a ffl can give a person a gun w/o a 4473 being completed (not talking legality of it but actually give it to them) ... if the buyer paid for it, the buyer is the legal owner of the gun...it may not be documented as it should, but the ffl would not be able to sue the buyer for return of the gun.

4473 form states its reasons right on the form..it is not a record of sale, it is used as a BR CHK.

Other state laws also may apply .. I assure you that as a ffl and responsible citizen, I never sent the state any forms that they required to be sent to them as part of what I considered to be a registration scheme of the state. This lack of completing forms did not change the owner of the gun. I got paid and I gave them their guns.

Libertarians, true die hard Libertarians, do not just talk the talk - they walk the walk. I've walked my walk and will continue to do so.

And in many states, guns can be bought and sold through private purchases w/o any BR chk or 4473 form -- the ownership does transfer however...
 
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solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
and how does buyer's signature block (block 16) play into you, as an FFL selling a firearm to JQP work for you while you are doing your walk?

ipse
 
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