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Thread: Scotland's Independence and Texas Secession

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    Regular Member qednick's Avatar
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    Scotland's Independence and Texas Secession

    It's interesting that most American-based news outlets are keeping rather quiet about this whole Scottish Independence referendum thing that's going on (http://news.yahoo.com/fate-united-ki...5--sector.html). Most likely because they know it gives hope to other regions that they may gain independence--from Catalonia in Spain to Texas in the US. In just a few days the Scots will vote whether or not to break from the United Kingdom and become an independent and free nation after 300+ years of being tied with England.

    This raises a lot of interesting talking points about Texas and what would happen upon secession. I'm honestly on-the-fence about such issues but I must admit, the thought of being part of a newly independent nation with a more solidified constitution that protects our rights and severely limits an overbearing government does sound appealing--especially if we ended up with true constitutional carry and no more IRS!

    Some interesting tidbits and questions:

    Like Texas, Scotland is rich in oil and other mineral wealth. However, most of the "No" camp over there have said they're only voting no because they're worried about their UK-based pensions and benefits that they've been paying into all their lives. I wonder if the newly minted nation would replace those for them?

    Is it true that Texas alone would be one of the largest economies in the world (top 20?). I believe Texas could be self-sufficient with it's own power supply, mineral wealth, etc.

    What about national defense?

    If Scotland does seceed, I suspect Wales and Northern Ireland would soon follow. If, hypothetically speaking, Texas did seceed, do you think many more states would follow suit?

    With the opportunity to create a brand new "national" constitution, what would you like to see in it? How would you reword the original Bill of Rights to prevent future misinterpretations by activist judges, etc.?

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    Quote Originally Posted by qednick View Post
    This raises a lot of interesting talking points about Texas and what would happen upon secession. I'm honestly on-the-fence about such issues but I must admit, the thought of being part of a newly independent nation with a more solidified constitution that protects our rights and severely limits an overbearing government does sound appealing--especially if we ended up with true constitutional carry and no more IRS! [ ... ] If, hypothetically speaking, Texas did seceed, do you think many more states would follow suit? With the opportunity to create a brand new "national" constitution, what would you like to see in it? How would you reword the original Bill of Rights to prevent future misinterpretations by activist judges, etc.?[my emphasis]
    I see what you tried to do.

    The various Confederate States of America tried to secede. Why would you expect modern secession to end differently?

    Worse, the Constitution of the United States was closer, then in 1860, much more a confederation of sovereign states, while now the states are far from sovereign.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 09-15-2014 at 12:41 PM.
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    Regular Member qednick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    The various Confederate States of America tried to secede. Why would you expect modern secession to end differently?

    Worse, the Constitution of the United States was closer, then in 1860, much more a confederation of sovereign states, while now the states are far from sovereign.
    Had Scotland tried to seceed in 1860 I suspect there would've been a war then too. If this vote succeeds then it will be a peaceable separation. Perhaps times have changed?

    Also, being "far from soveriegn" could very well be why folks would want this now??

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    The break up of the Soviet Union could not have happened in 1960, but it did a few year later. Many countries are now sovereign that were not. If Texas does secede I suspect it will be peaceful, though not well received. And I believe other states will follow, the federal government has to take a step back or sooner or later the people will get fed up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    [ ... ] I suspect it will be peaceful, though not well received. And I believe ... [ ... ]
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The break up of the Soviet Union could not have happened in 1960, but it did a few year later. Many countries are now sovereign that were not. If Texas does secede I suspect it will be peaceful, though not well received. And I believe other states will follow, the federal government has to take a step back or sooner or later the people will get fed up.
    As long as TX leaves a little corridor for the illegals to come to the US, I'm sure that all the democrats would be happy.

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    If, and this is a huge IF, we again have a secession of the southern states, it will end quite differently. For the simple reason that the South is far more industrialized than it was in 1861. Not to mention that there are several large armaments factories in the area that were nonexistent in 1861.

    There is also the high probability of many of the present-day military following the example that was set by many back in 1861. There were many West Point graduates filling out the ranks of the Confederate army. Had the South the logistics base that the North had, there might have been a very different outcome.

    The question in my mind is this, "What will be the trigger that sets the states to seceding this time around?"
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    [ ... ] The question in my mind is this, "What will be the trigger that sets the states to seceding this time around?"
    The same as last time, the relative worth of men, citizens, non-citizens, legal aliens, illegal aliens, productive, non-productive.

    The principle is that all men are created equal, we all start dependent and stupid. Some change at a greater rate than others.
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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    The same as last time, the relative worth of men, citizens, non-citizens, legal aliens, illegal aliens, productive, non-productive.

    The principle is that all men are created equal, we all start dependent and stupid. Some change at a greater rate than others.
    While you have very good points and are right on the money, I had in mind a specific event or events when I posed my question. Are we going to have a false-flag event that sees nation-wide martial law declared or some other, similar event?

    My own prediction is that the present occupant of the White House is going to do something to try to retain the power he has. Power is probably the only drug more addictive than heroin.

    Please understand that I am most devoutly praying that I am completely, utterly wrong in my assessment.
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    Please understand that I am most devoutly praying that I am completely, utterly wrong in my assessment.
    Don't worry, you are.

    Obama doesn't hold an iota of power. Those who do are not giving it up each election cycle – regardless of whether an (R) or a (D) wins. The status quo persists, and those made wealthy by state privilege will continue to get wealthier.

    In fact, the fantastical fear of Obama The Tyrant (as though he is somehow distinct from the US government as a whole) is precisely one of the tools by which this process occurs. Abandon it, or persist as a puppet.

    Obama will "abdicate", and yet you will continue to get less free. Mark my words.
    Last edited by marshaul; 09-15-2014 at 06:29 PM.

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    Regular Member qednick's Avatar
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    Well, the point of my original post isn't to advocate secession or things one way or another. I'm sure there's other places for that. It was mainly that should Scotland go independent, they have the opportunity to start with a clean slate, for better or for worse. Hypothetically, if Texas did the same, what would you like to see in a new "clean slate" constitution? How can the original constitution be improved, solidified, etc., to protect the citizens rights against an overbearing government?

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    The sign that secession leads to liberty, or the restoration of liberties lost, will be recognition that each human has the unfettered right to carry a firearm in defense of themselves, their loved ones, and their property. That property (land) is sacrosanct and shall never be violated by the state...not even one red cent from a tax.

    Scotts should vote yes because they are not English. Texas, well, I know where it is on a map. I prefer to drive through it, when I have to, when I take I-44/I-40 and head out to the left coast.
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    Quote Originally Posted by qednick View Post
    [ ... ] Scotland go independent, they have the opportunity to start with a clean slate, [ ... ]
    That is not so. There are 300 years of baggage to be sorted through.

    Quote Originally Posted by qednick View Post
    [ ... ] what would you like to see in a new "clean slate" constitution? [ ... ]
    If you, Nick QED, will read Karl Popper's The Open Society and Its Enemies you will read a sufficient argument for COTUS being the most perfect constitution ever written.

    All other constitutions are merely the tyrant's edicts recorded for the supression of the people. COTUS bound the tyrant government. That it has been corrupted is our fault and our doom.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 09-16-2014 at 09:14 AM.
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    Regular Member qednick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    That it has been corrupted is our fault and our doom.
    I agree with that statement but I think you're missing the point... if it had been worded differently, it may have made it harder for activist judges, etc. to "reinterpret" aspects of it. Additionally, I'm primarily talking about the Texas constitution here. A prime example would be (IMO) to take off the bit about regulating the wearing of arms to prevent crime.

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    Regular Member qednick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    The sign that secession leads to liberty, or the restoration of liberties lost, will be recognition that each human has the unfettered right to carry a firearm in defense of themselves, their loved ones, and their property. That property (land) is sacrosanct and shall never be violated by the state...not even one red cent from a tax.
    I like that. How about:

    The sign that secession leads to liberty, or the restoration of liberties lost, will be recognition that each person has the unfettered right to carry arms and ammunition in defense of themselves, their property, and fellow citizens. That such shall never be hindered, taxed, licensed nor registered by the State.

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Don't worry, you are.

    Obama doesn't hold an iota of power. Those who do are not giving it up each election cycle regardless of whether an (R) or a (D) wins. The status quo persists, and those made wealthy by state privilege will continue to get wealthier.

    In fact, the fantastical fear of Obama The Tyrant (as though he is somehow distinct from the US government as a whole) is precisely one of the tools by which this process occurs. Abandon it, or persist as a puppet.

    Obama will "abdicate", and yet you will continue to get less free. Mark my words.
    It is not so much that person (I don't even like using his name) with whom I am concerned as I am with those behind him and controlling him. You don't really think that he is acting without instructions, do you? He is not that smart.

    The object of his ineffectual Presidency is to further divide the populace along racial and economic lines.

    @qednick: Please do not misunderstand me; I do not advocate secession as that would most likely lead to an even bloodier war than the first War of Northern Aggression. I do believe, from the rumblings I hear from many different sources (not all of them in the South), that it is inevitable. It may not happen in my lifetime, but it will happen during my grandchildren's lives.
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    It is not so much that person (I don't even like using his name) with whom I am concerned as I am with those behind him and controlling him. You don't really think that he is acting without instructions, do you? He is not that smart.
    No, but that's just it. The "puppet masters" (it may be slightly less overtly conspiratorial than that, but you get the drift...) don't need Obama. They don't even need a Democrat. They merely need someone who will play ball, and it's a safe bet that any candidate who receives an (R) or (D) nomination is willing to play ball.

    Part of the illusion is the regular replacement of the POTUS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    [ ... ] Part of the illusion is the regular replacement of the POTUS.
    Not a spit of difference among'em.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member qednick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Not a spit of difference among'em.
    Like the song goes...meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

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    Texas secede? Refloat the Texas and refit and recommission the Lexington! Maybe the "northern counties" (Oklahoma) would join in seceding. We have a submarine! Texas Republic Navy!
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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post

    All other constitutions are merely the tyrant's edicts recorded for the supression of the people. COTUS bound the tyrant government. That it has been corrupted is our fault and our doom.
    Very true. But how can we get it back? It will take decades or centuries longer than it took for things to devolve into their current state.


    Quote Originally Posted by qednick View Post
    I like that. How about:

    The sign that secession leads to liberty, or the restoration of liberties lost, will be recognition that each person has the unfettered right to carry arms and ammunition in defense of themselves, their property, and fellow citizens. That such shall never be hindered, taxed, licensed nor registered by the State.
    Love it!
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    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
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    The Ayes of Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Elm Creek Smith View Post
    Texas secede? Refloat the Texas and refit and recommission the Lexington! Maybe the "northern counties" (Oklahoma) would join in seceding. We have a submarine! Texas Republic Navy!
    Looks like I might have moved to Texas at just the right time :-)

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    If texas left, the democratic party would be in big trouble because texas would put a quick stop to all the illegals pouring through the border.

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    Regular Member McLintock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    If texas left, the democratic party would be in big trouble because texas would put a quick stop to all the illegals pouring through the border.
    True, but if they did leave the U.S. the democratic party would be in control of the US guberment because the GOP needs that red state to win the White House. But Texas would become the largest country in the world.


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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McLintock View Post
    True, but if they did leave the U.S. the democratic party would be in control of the US guberment because the GOP needs that red state to win the White House. But Texas would become the largest country in the world.


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    With Billary being our next president, and the current lack of voter ID, I doubt we will ever see anything but a democrat president.

    But Texas will not be alone, Alaska would follow. And probably other states as the US becomes more left coast orientated.

    Secession is the only way we will keep our RKBA, as soon as a conservative justice dies so will the 2nd amendment. I suspect all red states will follow Texas as the progressives tighten their grip.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 09-18-2014 at 01:54 PM.
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