View Poll Results: Does an adult own himself/herself?

Voters
13. You may not vote on this poll
  • yes

    10 76.92%
  • no

    3 23.08%
  • I need to give the question more thought

    0 0%
Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Does an adult own himself/herself?

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    new hampshire
    Posts
    212

    Does an adult own himself/herself?

    I think that the answer to this question is "yes." It is a self-evident position, and the foundation of contemporary, anti-slavery morality. Unfortunately, while most people would profess this position, a large percentage of them happen to inconsistently apply it, by advocating taxation, malum prohibitum statutes, and government (a coercive monopoly that, by its very nature, does not respect self-ownership).

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    Not if you believe in a Creator.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    new hampshire
    Posts
    212
    Even many theists profess the idea of self-ownership. Perhaps they mean it in the limited sense of no other human owning an adult, but they profess self-ownership nonetheless.

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    new hampshire
    Posts
    212
    There are plenty of faux liberty lovers right here. It's very much the right forum.

  6. #6
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    2,489
    Unfortunately the answer is no. Though I wish it weren't so we all submit to the majority that tell us what to do, what not to do because they have the will and means to violently force us to live the way they choose. Thus a cop sees you not wearing your seat belt and declares you must pay the government for violating their rule about seat belts. If you do not pay they will kidnap and cage you. If you try to resist the kidnapping they will kill you. I'd like to see it change. Staying hopeful.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    new hampshire
    Posts
    212
    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    Unfortunately the answer is no. Though I wish it weren't so we all submit to the majority that tell us what to do, what not to do because they have the will and means to violently force us to live the way they choose. Thus a cop sees you not wearing your seat belt and declares you must pay the government for violating their rule about seat belts. If you do not pay they will kidnap and cage you. If you try to resist the kidnapping they will kill you. I'd like to see it change. Staying hopeful.
    A slave may be violently held and forced to work against his or her will, but that doesn't nullify the fundamental illegitimacy of what the slave "owner" is doing.

  8. #8
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    2,489
    Quote Originally Posted by state hater View Post
    A slave may be violently held and forced to work against his or her will, but that doesn't nullify the fundamental illegitimacy of what the slave "owner" is doing.
    I agree it's wrong. And you can deny vehemently the legitimacy of owning a person. But if you're a slave then you don't own yourself.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

  9. #9
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,272
    Needed to have a "I'll ask my wife" as a choice...I'd choose that one.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    nj
    Posts
    3,277
    If you have a DL or social security number or any Government issued piece of paper then in my opinion you do not COMPLETELY OWN YOURSELF.

    My.02

    Regards

    CCJ
    " I detest hypocrites and their Hypocrisy" I support Liberty for each, for all, and forever".
    Ask yourself, Do you own Yourself?

  11. #11
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,318
    Ownership in this context simply means rightful claim. Your inability to exercise complete control over yourself doesn't negate your ownership of yourself. Nor does my belief in God negate it in this context, I've been given this physical body.
    Advocate freedom please

  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    If you have a DL or social security number or any Government issued piece of paper then in my opinion you do not COMPLETELY OWN YOURSELF.

    My.02

    Regards

    CCJ
    Finally, I can sue someone for my ugliness ! I'll be a trillionaire soon.

  13. #13
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    2,489
    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    Ownership in this context simply means rightful claim. Your inability to exercise complete control over yourself doesn't negate your ownership of yourself. Nor does my belief in God negate it in this context, I've been given this physical body.
    The ability to exercise direct and complete direction and actions of yourself is the context.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,153
    Modus ponendo ponens adult.

    Sixteen year olds voted in the 2014 Scottish Independence referendum, and the issue is raised in US legal circles (Volokh Conspiracy's Ilya Somin today).
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    58
    Complete control is only possible if one lives completely alone. Otherwise ownership of property and self is limited. Even if one is at the top of the food chain, one can only beat and abuse another to a certain point before you must worry that they will kill you in your sleep. At the point where you MUST take actions to cause or prevent the actions of others, you are not in complete control as you MUST do these things.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,153
    Quote Originally Posted by hovercat View Post
    [ ... ] you are not in complete control as you MUST do these things.
    Reality is a beewitch!
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  17. #17
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,318
    Quote Originally Posted by hovercat View Post
    Complete control is only possible if one lives completely alone. Otherwise ownership of property and self is limited. Even if one is at the top of the food chain, one can only beat and abuse another to a certain point before you must worry that they will kill you in your sleep. At the point where you MUST take actions to cause or prevent the actions of others, you are not in complete control as you MUST do these things.
    You're confusing ownership with control. <-edited

    This is simply guys... Who has a higher legitimate claim to your life or body than you? Nobody. You own yourself. <-added

    If I break into your home, conk you in the head with a bat, and walk out with your TV I have exercised extensive control over all 3, but I have no ownership in any of the 3. <-added
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 09-20-2014 at 09:52 AM.
    Advocate freedom please

  18. #18
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    2,489
    Quote Originally Posted by hovercat View Post
    Complete control is only possible if one lives completely alone. Otherwise ownership of property and self is limited. Even if one is at the top of the food chain, one can only beat and abuse another to a certain point before you must worry that they will kill you in your sleep. At the point where you MUST take actions to cause or prevent the actions of others, you are not in complete control as you MUST do these things.
    What does living alone have to do with complete control of yourself?
    I'm not talking about being outside of the influence of others. But the influence of others doesn't have to control you.
    Also I disagree with the idea you are forced to act in self preservation and therefore do not have control. It's your choice whether or not to act to prevent the actions of others.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    58
    If one chooses to associate with others, they must give up some control over their actions to maintain their choice of society. Yes, it is a choice. One can remove themselves by choice in a free society, while a slave cannot so choose.
    One can refute that a slave can choose to 'live free or die'. Therefore, ultimately, is one a slave by choice?
    You can relocate' when you see the smoke of another's campfire', or choose to allow others to have some control. We are ultimately slaves to our stomachs. Philosophy is tricky.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •