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Does an adult own himself/herself?

Does an adult own himself/herself?

  • Total voters
    13
state hater

state hater

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new hampshire
I think that the answer to this question is "yes." It is a self-evident position, and the foundation of contemporary, anti-slavery morality. Unfortunately, while most people would profess this position, a large percentage of them happen to inconsistently apply it, by advocating taxation, malum prohibitum statutes, and government (a coercive monopoly that, by its very nature, does not respect self-ownership).
 
state hater

state hater

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Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
199
Location
new hampshire
Even many theists profess the idea of self-ownership. Perhaps they mean it in the limited sense of no other human owning an adult, but they profess self-ownership nonetheless.
 
twoskinsonemanns

twoskinsonemanns

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Apr 12, 2012
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WV
Unfortunately the answer is no. Though I wish it weren't so we all submit to the majority that tell us what to do, what not to do because they have the will and means to violently force us to live the way they choose. Thus a cop sees you not wearing your seat belt and declares you must pay the government for violating their rule about seat belts. If you do not pay they will kidnap and cage you. If you try to resist the kidnapping they will kill you. I'd like to see it change. Staying hopeful.
radicalnotion.jpeg
 
state hater

state hater

Banned
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
199
Location
new hampshire
twoskinsonemanns said:
Unfortunately the answer is no. Though I wish it weren't so we all submit to the majority that tell us what to do, what not to do because they have the will and means to violently force us to live the way they choose. Thus a cop sees you not wearing your seat belt and declares you must pay the government for violating their rule about seat belts. If you do not pay they will kidnap and cage you. If you try to resist the kidnapping they will kill you. I'd like to see it change. Staying hopeful.
radicalnotion.jpeg
Click to expand...

A slave may be violently held and forced to work against his or her will, but that doesn't nullify the fundamental illegitimacy of what the slave "owner" is doing.
 
twoskinsonemanns

twoskinsonemanns

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Apr 12, 2012
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Location
WV
state hater said:
A slave may be violently held and forced to work against his or her will, but that doesn't nullify the fundamental illegitimacy of what the slave "owner" is doing.
Click to expand...

I agree it's wrong. And you can deny vehemently the legitimacy of owning a person. But if you're a slave then you don't own yourself.
 
C

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
If you have a DL or social security number or any Government issued piece of paper then in my opinion you do not COMPLETELY OWN YOURSELF.

My.02

Regards

CCJ
 
stealthyeliminator

stealthyeliminator

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Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
Ownership in this context simply means rightful claim. Your inability to exercise complete control over yourself doesn't negate your ownership of yourself. Nor does my belief in God negate it in this context, I've been given this physical body.
 
twoskinsonemanns

twoskinsonemanns

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WV
stealthyeliminator said:
Ownership in this context simply means rightful claim. Your inability to exercise complete control over yourself doesn't negate your ownership of yourself. Nor does my belief in God negate it in this context, I've been given this physical body.
Click to expand...

The ability to exercise direct and complete direction and actions of yourself is the context.
 
H

hovercat

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Feb 15, 2014
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Texas
Complete control is only possible if one lives completely alone. Otherwise ownership of property and self is limited. Even if one is at the top of the food chain, one can only beat and abuse another to a certain point before you must worry that they will kill you in your sleep. At the point where you MUST take actions to cause or prevent the actions of others, you are not in complete control as you MUST do these things.
 
stealthyeliminator

stealthyeliminator

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hovercat said:
Complete control is only possible if one lives completely alone. Otherwise ownership of property and self is limited. Even if one is at the top of the food chain, one can only beat and abuse another to a certain point before you must worry that they will kill you in your sleep. At the point where you MUST take actions to cause or prevent the actions of others, you are not in complete control as you MUST do these things.
Click to expand...

You're confusing ownership with control. <-edited

This is simply guys... Who has a higher legitimate claim to your life or body than you? Nobody. You own yourself. <-added

If I break into your home, conk you in the head with a bat, and walk out with your TV I have exercised extensive control over all 3, but I have no ownership in any of the 3. <-added
 
Last edited:
twoskinsonemanns

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
hovercat said:
Complete control is only possible if one lives completely alone. Otherwise ownership of property and self is limited. Even if one is at the top of the food chain, one can only beat and abuse another to a certain point before you must worry that they will kill you in your sleep. At the point where you MUST take actions to cause or prevent the actions of others, you are not in complete control as you MUST do these things.
Click to expand...

What does living alone have to do with complete control of yourself?
I'm not talking about being outside of the influence of others. But the influence of others doesn't have to control you.
Also I disagree with the idea you are forced to act in self preservation and therefore do not have control. It's your choice whether or not to act to prevent the actions of others.
 
H

hovercat

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
57
Location
Texas
If one chooses to associate with others, they must give up some control over their actions to maintain their choice of society. Yes, it is a choice. One can remove themselves by choice in a free society, while a slave cannot so choose.
One can refute that a slave can choose to 'live free or die'. Therefore, ultimately, is one a slave by choice?
You can relocate' when you see the smoke of another's campfire', or choose to allow others to have some control. We are ultimately slaves to our stomachs. Philosophy is tricky.
 
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