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St. Louis - Open Carry/Firearm Education Walk - Oct 25, 2014

color of law

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People seem to forget that in Texas it's illegal to open carry hand guns. You can only open carry long guns.

The Texas Legislature meets in regular session on the second Tuesday in January of each odd-numbered year. The Texas Constitution limits the regular session to 140 calendar days.

Maybe 2015 open carry of handguns will become a non-issue.
 

Redbaron007

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People seem to forget that in Texas it's illegal to open carry hand guns. You can only open carry long guns.

The Texas Legislature meets in regular session on the second Tuesday in January of each odd-numbered year. The Texas Constitution limits the regular session to 140 calendar days.

Maybe 2015 open carry of handguns will become a non-issue.

I hope the Texans will get this option...soon.
 

BB62

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WEEKS after I gave them and the TV stations a heads-up about the walk, the Post-Dispatch (which I understand some call the Post-Disgrace) posted an article, seemingly sourced from Danny Wicentowski's article, the Facebook event page, and one call to the city: http://www.stltoday.com/news/open-c...cle_0f8e198f-8271-536d-b74d-a2652c16b972.html

"A St. Louis Open Carry/Firearm Education Walk is scheduled to take place in downtown St. Louis on Saturday afternoon.

Participants are asked to openly carry slung long guns and holstered pistols in an effort to 'raise awareness of the right to keep and bear arms under the Federal and Missouri State Constitutions.'

In August, Missouri voters passed Amendment 5, which strengthened the state's gun laws, making it an “unalienable” right for citizens to bear arms..."
 
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OC for ME

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ST. LOUIS • A St. Louis open carry/firearm education walk is scheduled to take place in downtown St. Louis on Saturday afternoon.


Participants are asked to openly carry slung long guns and holstered pistols in an effort to “raise awareness of the right to keep and bear arms under the Federal and Missouri State Constitutions.”


In August, Missouri voters passed Amendment 5, which strengthened the state's gun laws, making it an “unalienable” right for citizens to bear arms.


The walk starts at 1 p.m., starting at downtown's Citygarden and Gateway Mall and heading to the Arch grounds, before returning to Citygarden and the Gateway Mall area.


Organizer Jeffry Smith, a gun activist from Ohio, encourages and welcomes children to the event but discourages “Don't Tread On Me” flags and clothing, camouflage wear, and “grungy clothes.”


“This is an educational walk,” he writes in a Facebook event page, “not a militia gathering.”


About 100 people had responded by Monday night that they were attending.


Maggie Crane, a spokeswoman for the mayor's office, said she did not know details on whether organizers had applied for permits for the walk.


For more information about the event, visit its Facebook event page.
So ya don't have to join to read the entire bit.
 

OC for ME

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So ya don't have to join to read the entire bit.
I like how we, in the city's eye, need a permit to walk. As long as ya don't stop and block the sidewalk you cannot be charged with loitering, nor can you be charged with unlawful assembly. But, if any of you get caught with a Starbucks cup in your hand...;)
 

kcgunfan

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I don't think the city said a permit is required, did they?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 

BB62

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St. Louis Police

As posted to the event page: https://www.facebook.com/events/690379891057306

** UPDATE - St. Louis Police **

I just spoke to Chief Sam Dotson of the St. Louis Metro PD. The conversation was businesslike and productive.

The Chief asked a number of questions, including what I expected of his department relative to the walk. I told him that it was my expectation that his officers would deal with any people who tried to impede the walk participants, or who engaged in actual or threatened physical harm. He assured me his officers would do so.

He also assured me that his officers would not interfere with participants.

He said he assumed that most people attending had a concealed carry permit, and I told him I had no idea of whether or not that was the case, but that that was not what this walk was about. He referred to his attempt to "clarify" Amendment 5, and I said I was well aware of it, but that I felt that we would come down on different sides of the matter. ;)

I told him we could accelerate that process Saturday if he liked. ;)

He asked how long we would be around, and I told him it depended on the weather, and that if the weather was good I expected that people would hang around Citygarden/Gateway Mall and enjoy some fellowship before departing for lunch or for home.

The Chief offered valuable information about parking, and offered to help notify local restaurants of the event. I told him that to my knowledge, local eating establishments in close proximity were either posted, or in buildings that were posted, and that we would be eating outside the city.

I asked the Chief to e-mail me his contact information and that of the site commander, and he said he would. He also said he may be present on Saturday.

I think that's it!
 

Oramac

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As posted to the event page: https://www.facebook.com/events/690379891057306

** UPDATE - St. Louis Police **

I just spoke to Chief Sam Dotson of the St. Louis Metro PD. The conversation was businesslike and productive.

The Chief asked a number of questions, including what I expected of his department relative to the walk. I told him that it was my expectation that his officers would deal with any people who tried to impede the walk participants, or who engaged in actual or threatened physical harm. He assured me his officers would do so.

He also assured me that his officers would not interfere with participants.

He said he assumed that most people attending had a concealed carry permit, and I told him I had no idea of whether or not that was the case, but that that was not what this walk was about. He referred to his attempt to "clarify" Amendment 5, and I said I was well aware of it, but that I felt that we would come down on different sides of the matter. ;)

I told him we could accelerate that process Saturday if he liked. ;)

He asked how long we would be around, and I told him it depended on the weather, and that if the weather was good I expected that people would hang around Citygarden/Gateway Mall and enjoy some fellowship before departing for lunch or for home.

The Chief offered valuable information about parking, and offered to help notify local restaurants of the event. I told him that to my knowledge, local eating establishments in close proximity were either posted, or in buildings that were posted, and that we would be eating outside the city.

I asked the Chief to e-mail me his contact information and that of the site commander, and he said he would. He also said he may be present on Saturday.

I think that's it!

Sounds...........ambiguous. Obviously I didn't speak to him, but reading this it sounds like he was neither for nor against the walk. Can you give any indication as to where he stands on this? He wanted to know what to expect from us. I think it'd be wise to know what to expect from him as well.
 

Redbaron007

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As posted to the event page: https://www.facebook.com/events/690379891057306

** UPDATE - St. Louis Police **

I just spoke to Chief Sam Dotson of the St. Louis Metro PD. The conversation was businesslike and productive.

The Chief asked a number of questions, including what I expected of his department relative to the walk. I told him that it was my expectation that his officers would deal with any people who tried to impede the walk participants, or who engaged in actual or threatened physical harm. He assured me his officers would do so.

He also assured me that his officers would not interfere with participants.

He said he assumed that most people attending had a concealed carry permit, and I told him I had no idea of whether or not that was the case, but that that was not what this walk was about. He referred to his attempt to "clarify" Amendment 5, and I said I was well aware of it, but that I felt that we would come down on different sides of the matter. ;)

I told him we could accelerate that process Saturday if he liked. ;)

He asked how long we would be around, and I told him it depended on the weather, and that if the weather was good I expected that people would hang around Citygarden/Gateway Mall and enjoy some fellowship before departing for lunch or for home.

The Chief offered valuable information about parking, and offered to help notify local restaurants of the event. I told him that to my knowledge, local eating establishments in close proximity were either posted, or in buildings that were posted, and that we would be eating outside the city.

I asked the Chief to e-mail me his contact information and that of the site commander, and he said he would. He also said he may be present on Saturday.

I think that's it!

I know you know this....but watch for wolves in sheep clothing when dealing with him. He is, for the most part, a politician more than a Chief of Police. :shocker:
 

BB62

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Sounds...........ambiguous. Obviously I didn't speak to him, but reading this it sounds like he was neither for nor against the walk. Can you give any indication as to where he stands on this? He wanted to know what to expect from us. I think it'd be wise to know what to expect from him as well.
I know you know this....but watch for wolves in sheep clothing when dealing with him. He is, for the most part, a politician more than a Chief of Police. :shocker:
For or against the walk? I have no idea.

As to the phone call, it was clear to me that he was trying to assess the situation, including me, but I think I made it clear that I wasn't into game playing.

I have since received his office & cell phone numbers as well as those of the District Commander.

Legally, he's in a box and he knows it. I'm satisfied there won't be any trouble from SLMPD.
 
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Redbaron007

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For or against the walk? I have no idea.

As to the phone call, it was clear to me that he was trying to assess the situation, including me, but I think I made it clear that I wasn't into game playing.

I have since received his office & cell phone numbers as well as those of the District Commander.

Legally, he's in a box and he knows it. I'm satisfied there won't be any trouble from SLMPD.

His track record is against. It will be hard to say, if anything, will happen. He's not friendly to the 2A movement. Not saying anything will happen; but I wouldn't trust anything he says....take it with a grain of salt.

Him being in a box is nothing new....he will wiggle around and get out. :uhoh:
 

BB62

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Yes, he is and you have put him there, masterfully. Congratulation my friend. Well done. I wish I could be with you for this walk.
Thank you, but I can't take full credit. Credit for putting him in a box legally is rightfully apportioned between me and my legal team.

Although I started the event and have driven the communications, logistics, media, and law portions forward, the participation level at this walk was heavily driven by LMTD's vouching for me and the walk on multiple Facebook groups. That was HUGE. In addition, LMTD has provided contacts, background info, and on-site assistance. BIG stuff.

Credit is also due other people here on OCDO (I'm too beat to go back and identify them individually at the moment) for law cites, and for hooking me up with the Riverfront Times. Another HUGE score.

I'm probably going to hit the road tomorrow for STL, and may or may not update the Facebook page while there.

Thanks to everyone, and I hope you guys drive this bus hard after this event. It needs to be. There are way too many people who dismiss Amendment 5 as superfluous. I and others will have more to say on that after the walk.
 
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OC for ME

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...

He referred to his attempt to "clarify" Amendment 5, and I said I was well aware of it, but that I felt that we would come down on different sides of the matter. ;)

I told him we could accelerate that process Saturday if he liked. ;)

...
"Clarify"...pffft. hey Chief Dotson, you ain't paid to clarify the law just to enforce the law!!

Chief Dotson is anti-2A inspite of his rhetoric to the contrary. He joined/lead the attempt to nullify A5 before it was voted on. This is the only fact that you need to know about Chief Dotson.
 

LMTD

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We are aware of Dotson ' positions, the point is that he has been put into a position where he has no choices. He must either demonstrate that he has no regard for the constitution of this state and arrest or stand down on his personal views.

Due to the notifications there is significant civil liabilities if he opts not to stand down. It could even be gross negligence.
 

OC for ME

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We are aware of Dotson ' positions, the point is that he has been put into a position where he has no choices. He must either demonstrate that he has no regard for the constitution of this state and arrest or stand down on his personal views.

Due to the notifications there is significant civil liabilities if he opts not to stand down. It could even be gross negligence.
Agreed.

It is critical that criminal sanctions be researched. Any officer that violates the law based only on the OC of a properly holstered handgun should have a criminal complaint lodged against him. Criminal sanctions must be pursued against the command structure for instituting policies that compel officers to violate the law. Civil liability must be placed squarely on the shoulders of the city for enabling (not restraining) its PD.

Realistically I suspect little in the way of news worthy incidents other than the walk itself. The local news is in a cover "fireworks" mode as of late and if no fireworks are evident Saturday what's the point?
 

Oramac

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His track record is against. It will be hard to say, if anything, will happen. He's not friendly to the 2A movement. Not saying anything will happen; but I wouldn't trust anything he says....take it with a grain of salt.

Him being in a box is nothing new....he will wiggle around and get out. :uhoh:

Unfortunately, this is true. I sincerely hope the walk goes off without a hitch, but it wouldn't surprise me if SLMPD found some way to make life difficult.

In any case, I should see all of you Saturday!
 
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