St. Louis - Open Carry/Firearm Education Walk - Oct 25, 2014

BB62 · Oct 8, 2014

deepdiver said:
I would expect that even if the big 3 networks and St. Louis Post Dispatch don't cover it or don't in more than passing, I think the local Riverfront Times would do a write up on it if they are made aware.

I heard from Mr. Wicentowski of the Riverfront Times this afternoon. I have no idea how or if he intends to skew things, but he asked good questions.

We spoke for 30 minutes or so, and I also gave him LMTD's contact information.

deepdiver · Oct 9, 2014

BB62 said:
I heard from Mr. Wicentowski of the Riverfront Times this afternoon. I have no idea how or if he intends to skew things, but he asked good questions.

We spoke for 30 minutes or so, and I also gave him LMTD's contact information.

The MSM in St Louis is all left of center to varying degrees, but the RFT also has a libertarian streak. That he took the time to discuss it for so long gives hope that we'll get a fair shake.

BB62 · Oct 9, 2014

deepdiver said:
The MSM in St Louis is all left of center to varying degrees, but the RFT also has a libertarian streak. That he took the time to discuss it for so long gives hope that we'll get a fair shake.

Me too.

If anyone becomes aware of his report, please post a link to it here, and I will do the same.

Oramac · Oct 9, 2014

BB62 said:
Me too.

If anyone becomes aware of his report, please post a link to it here, and I will do the same.

If I had to guess (and it is a guess), I'd bet they'll wait to post anything until after the event for 2 reasons: 1) it allows them to come get pictures if they want it, and 2) it allows them to report on the result of the walk as well (arrests/nothing happened/etc.).

BB62 · Oct 9, 2014

Oramac said:
If I had to guess (and it is a guess), I'd bet they'll wait to post anything until after the event for 2 reasons: 1) it allows them to come get pictures if they want it, and 2) it allows them to report on the result of the walk as well (arrests/nothing happened/etc.).

He told me his story would be submitted tomorrow or Monday, and I supplied him a picture of another walk I organized - which included a man pushing a stroller while carrying a slung EBR!! :shocker:

BB62 · Oct 9, 2014

** STATUS UPDATE **

As just posted to the Facebook event page: https://www.facebook.com/events/690379891057306

News media contact and Arch news!

Finally, someone in the media is showing interest in this historic event!

I received a call yesterday from Danny Wicentowski of the Riverfront Times. He asked *excellent* questions.

Some of his questions (paraphrased) were legal: "Are you concerned that you haven't received a response from the city or the AG?", some were "Why?" type, and some were racial: "Could a group of black people do the same thing?"
He also indicated that he wanted to speak to Richard Lofftus, who has been instrumental in driving participation and doing other behind-the-scenes work. Mr. Wicentowski will speak with him this evening. Of course, we shall see the outcome when the story is published.

ARCH NEWS!!

Considering the lack of responsiveness of the City of St. Louis and the MO Attorney General, the responsiveness of the non-sworn Gateway Arch personnel, and more recently the LEOs at the Arch has been a breath of fresh air!

Initial questions, notice and responses were sent and received via e-mail, and finally I was directed to Michael Horton, a Law Enforcement Specialist with the National Park Service. Impressively, he called me first. I supplied him with various information, including links to relevant law and the notice given to the other parties. He also did research and made or attempted to make contact with various internal and external parties.

I called him yesterday for an update, he told me where things stood, and we worked out various things, including the SB656 summary vs actual language "handgun" vs "firearm" usage.

Today he called me after speaking to his Chief, and here's the news, unofficially for now.... ** there will be NO PERMIT CHECKS at the Arch!! **

No arrest for me there, evidently.

We have been asked to restrict ourselves to an area that doesn't interfere with patrons' access to the Arch, which won't be an issue, since I made it clear that my intent is for us to take pictures and to speak to inquisitive members of the public - not lay siege to the Arch.

Officer Horton may be there that Saturday, and if he is, please shake his hand and express your thanks. Also, although my main contact was with him, I would like to compliment the responsiveness and professionalism of Officer Thomas Lewis and Officer Linwood Vaughan. All of them are a credit to their profession.

Oramac · Oct 10, 2014

BB62 said:
** STATUS UPDATE **

As just posted to the Facebook event page: https://www.facebook.com/events/690379891057306

News media contact and Arch news!

Finally, someone in the media is showing interest in this historic event!

I received a call yesterday from Danny Wicentowski of the Riverfront Times. He asked *excellent* questions.

Some of his questions (paraphrased) were legal: "Are you concerned that you haven't received a response from the city or the AG?", some were "Why?" type, and some were racial: "Could a group of black people do the same thing?"
He also indicated that he wanted to speak to Richard Lofftus, who has been instrumental in driving participation and doing other behind-the-scenes work. Mr. Wicentowski will speak with him this evening. Of course, we shall see the outcome when the story is published.

ARCH NEWS!!

Considering the lack of responsiveness of the City of St. Louis and the MO Attorney General, the responsiveness of the non-sworn Gateway Arch personnel, and more recently the LEOs at the Arch has been a breath of fresh air!

Initial questions, notice and responses were sent and received via e-mail, and finally I was directed to Michael Horton, a Law Enforcement Specialist with the National Park Service. Impressively, he called me first. I supplied him with various information, including links to relevant law and the notice given to the other parties. He also did research and made or attempted to make contact with various internal and external parties.

I called him yesterday for an update, he told me where things stood, and we worked out various things, including the SB656 summary vs actual language "handgun" vs "firearm" usage.

Today he called me after speaking to his Chief, and here's the news, unofficially for now.... ** there will be NO PERMIT CHECKS at the Arch!! **

No arrest for me there, evidently.

We have been asked to restrict ourselves to an area that doesn't interfere with patrons' access to the Arch, which won't be an issue, since I made it clear that my intent is for us to take pictures and to speak to inquisitive members of the public - not lay siege to the Arch.

Officer Horton may be there that Saturday, and if he is, please shake his hand and express your thanks. Also, although my main contact was with him, I would like to compliment the responsiveness and professionalism of Officer Thomas Lewis and Officer Linwood Vaughan. All of them are a credit to their profession.

As I said on FB, this is fantastic news!!

I am a bit surprised they RFT is planning to publish before the event though. Oh well.

kcgunfan · Oct 10, 2014

So, here's a little bit of interesting news from the West side of the State, KC has updated their OC law to conform with SB656, because they believed without it that anyone could open carry without a permit unless they changed it. That might be relevant to St. Louis...

http://www.kansascity.com/news/government-politics/article2641126.html

I'm not found the ordinance yet, but both news article say we have to present our CCW permit and don't mention anything else.

Here's another thing I was thinking about:

For those that are out of state, the usual MO CCW permit doesn't have a photo id or address or much identifying information on it. Mine has name, age, weight, height, hair color, eye color, gender.

The state statutes say that we have to present photo id with our CCW permit if we are concealed carrying and a LEO demands it. That is here: http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710000121.HTM

But, the new law for OC with CCW says we merely need to present our CCW permit here: http://www.senate.mo.gov/14info/pdf-bill/tat/SB656.pdf

I have this feeling that should I get stopped this weekend, I'm not showing anything more than my CCW permit and I'll see what happens.

deepdiver · Oct 10, 2014

Nicely done with the St. Louis walk. Now I am regretting that I am unable to attend.

BB62 · Oct 20, 2014

** NEWS ARTICLE **

Riverfront Times article by Danny Wicentowski: http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/da..._walk_through_gateway_arch_and_citygarden.php

"The current landscape of Missouri gun law is confusing.

Last month, state legislators overrode Governor Jay Nixon's veto on a bill that instantly erased all regional bans on open carrying firearms. Then, add the passing of Amendment 5, which enshrined all Missouri gun laws as "unalienable," and it would appear that gun rights in the Show Me state have never been stronger.

But nobody in Missouri -- including law enforcement and St. Louis city officials -- seems to understand the true scope of these new gun laws, says Jeffry Smith, a firearms activist and instructor from Ohio. Smith is leading an "Open Carry/Firearms Educational Walk" this weekend in downtown St. Louis, saying he wants Missourians to know their constitution provides a fundamental right to open carry firearms, even without a concealed carry permit..."

Please comment on the article page, here, and on the Facebook event page: https://www.facebook.com/events/690379891057306/

Just to be clear, although I have my role in the walk, it simply would not have been possible without the ongoing assistance of LMTD. Thank you again, sir.

Redbaron007 · Oct 20, 2014

Did you provide the picture BB? Not sure the picture is all that flattering. After showing it to a couple folks...their comments were, is this going to be Texas here?

BB62 · Oct 20, 2014

Redbaron007 said:
Did you provide the picture BB? Not sure the picture is all that flattering. After showing it to a couple folks...their comments were, is this going to be Texas here?

Yes, I provided the picture. I'm not sure what you're referring to as "not that flattering". Can you clarify? And, what's this about Texas? You and/or your friends seem to be reading a lot into a single picture.

The walk shown was the first walk on and around a public college campus in Ohio, and it went off VERY well. LOTS of positive public interaction, almost no negative reaction.

Redbaron007 · Oct 20, 2014

BB62 said:
Yes, I provided the picture. I'm not sure what you're referring to as "not that flattering". Can you clarify? And, what's this about Texas? You and/or your friends seem to be reading a lot into a single picture.

The walk shown was the first walk on and around a public college campus in Ohio, and it went off VERY well. LOTS of positive public interaction, almost no negative reaction.

You know the story behind the walk in the pic......the average viewer doesn't.

Just the extreme right gun-nuts tot'n assault rifles with their babies! Remember the open carry walks in Texas wif AWs in Target and cafes? Which picture do you think they will use in the Post-Dispatch.....the most intimidating pic they can find.

I have no problem with what the pic suggests.....but from a PR stand point.....to the common person who watches CNN/Post-Dispatch....it may not be the most flattering for the movement. Just my $.02. I wish I could be there....but conflicts prevent it.

BB62 · Oct 20, 2014

Redbaron007 said:
You know the story behind the walk in the pic......the average viewer doesn't.

Just the extreme right gun-nuts tot'n assault rifles with their babies! Remember the open carry walks in Texas wif AWs in Target and cafes? Which picture do you think they will use in the Post-Dispatch.....the most intimidating pic they can find.

I have no problem with what the pic suggests.....but from a PR stand point.....to the common person who watches CNN/Post-Dispatch....it may not be the most flattering for the movement. Just my $.02. I wish I could be there....but conflicts prevent it.

<shrugs shoulders>

To all of what you said - True, but hey, that's life.

Redbaron007 · Oct 20, 2014

BB62 said:
<shrugs shoulders>

To all of what you said - True, but hey, that's life.

That's sort of what they said in Texas.....I wish this event to not be even remotely perceived with the PR in Texas.

OBTW, the people I showed it to are not really anti-gun, but they also are not pro-gun....they believe in some regulations/training, depending on whom you speak with.

color of law · Oct 20, 2014

In the picture it looks like everyday common folk carrying hand guns and long guns. But, anybody can draw any conclusion they wish based on their own belief system. What's that phrase, In the eye of the beholder......

BB62 · Oct 20, 2014

^^^
What he said.

Redbaron007 · Oct 20, 2014

color of law said:
In the picture it looks like everyday common folk carrying hand guns and long guns. But, anybody can draw any conclusion they wish based on their own belief system. What's that phrase, In the eye of the beholder......

Exactly....except for many...the MSM assists in that conclusion....once again...Texas should be a learning lesson, not ignored.

BB62 · Oct 20, 2014

Redbaron007 said:
Exactly....except for many...the MSM assists in that conclusion....once again...Texas should be a learning lesson, not ignored.

I had a dandy response ready, but decided to can it. You will think as you like, and it's simply not worth my time to inform you of how and why your analysis is lacking.

Redbaron007 · Oct 20, 2014

BB62 said:
I had a dandy response ready, but decided to can it. You will think as you like, and it's simply not worth my time to inform you of how and why your analysis is lacking.

Oh, I admit my analysis could be flawed....however, I used people that would give me their first impression that were neither pro gun or anti's. Their first reaction is as stated. My guess is, there will be many with the same knee-jerk perception. I hope that I'm wrong.......my guts says more than likely, not.

Good luck.....if I'm able to make, I'll let you know....as stated earlier, doubtful with the other conflicts.

St. Louis - Open Carry/Firearm Education Walk - Oct 25, 2014

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