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Thread: Can anyone answer this question...?

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    Can anyone answer this question...?

    Okay guys I have a question. I am 20 years old,never convicted of any crime and not prohibited from owning a firearm. I own an AR-15, 9mm handgun, and an old .22 rifle. I live in Tennessee.
    My question is regarding the law that was passed earlier this year in July regarding possession of a firearm in your vehicle.

    I know it has always been that you could keep a firearm in you vehicle with ammo in it if you had a concealed or carry permit,but the new law says you no longer have to have a permit to keep a gun in your vehicle as long as you are not prohibited from owning a firearm and as long as you own the vehicle.

    Its basically an extension of the castle doctrine saying you have the right to defend your home and your car is your property just as your home is. I have kept my handgun in my console loaded ever since this law was passed because you don't have to be 21 to own a handgun in TN,you only have to be 21 to get a carry permit,and I legally own the vehicle.

    I got pulled over the other day by a State Trooper for speeding and I informed him once he approached my car about my handgun,he asked me if I had a carry permit then asked me if I was 21,I replied no to both questions.

    He then asked me to get out of the vehicle so I did,he then got into my vehicle and took my handgun unloaded it and went back to his car,another officer arrived and they both told me you cannot own a handgun under 21 which I believe is not true at all.

    I had the Bill that was passed this year printed out in my car just in case I ran into any issue,Senate Bill 1744,and showed it to them he then took it to his car read it,came back gave me my gun back told me it is against state law to keep it in my vehicle and to take it home and keep it there.

    I would like to know the truth so I stopped by a police department in a different jurisdiction and talked with the captain,sgt,and a deputy for almost one hour about it I showed them the Bill and everything but they were unsure of whether I was allowed to or not they even made a few phone calls to people who said should know and whoever they called was unsure as well.

    They advised me to speak with an attorney to find out if I am allowed to or not.

    First of all I find it crazy that two different police departments don't know the law. Although they were all sort of friendly its still crazy to think that they don't and advised me to ask a lawyer instead of them when they are supposed to know the law and enforce it.

    My question is can someone please help me verify if I am allowed to keep my handgun in my vehicle?

    Thanks and sorry for the long read
    Last edited by tleonard55; 09-17-2014 at 03:55 PM.

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    A wall of text....please re-state you question in 20 words or less.

    People may reply then.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Possession or storage of the firearm in your vehicle? Two very different things. Pots the relevant text of the statute to which you refer.

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    Welcome to OCDO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Welcome to OCDO.

    You really do not have to limit yourself to less than a Twittering. Look at your keyboad just to the right of where all the letters are. It's called an "enter key" because it has "enter" written on it.

    You can use it to put in lines that separate various thoughts. Notice how I just did that above?

    Those separated groups of thoughts are called paragraphs. Most folks - even those who are recent parolees from the public education camps - have at least a basic understanding of what they are and why they are used. All trhe kool kids use them. Why not join the club?

    stay safe.
    Edited my OP just for you.

    Thanks for the advice.

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    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    The question is this: Can he own a handgun when under 21? I think the answer is that as long you are over 18 you are fine. See this link:

    http://tinyurl.com/ppryafj

    Make sure you click READ ALL under possession. I believe the cops were wrong and you are right. However, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.
    Open means open...

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    Quote Originally Posted by independence View Post
    The question is this: Can he own a handgun when under 21? I think the answer is that as long you are over 18 you are fine. See this link:

    http://tinyurl.com/ppryafj

    Make sure you click READ ALL under possession. I believe the cops were wrong and you are right. However, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.
    The question is much more complicated than that. I know I can own a handgun at my age,20.

    However I cannot get a CC or OC permit until I am 21.

    The new law passed earlier this year,Senate Bill 1774, says that you no longer need a permit to keep a firearm in your car with the intent to go armed. Please read the bill for a better description.

    The police think that if I were over 21 this would be okay but since im 20 it isn't? There is no law stating that it is illegal to own a handgun under 21 but there is a lwa saying that it is illegal to own a handgun under age 18.

    So if I am legally able to own the handgun on my own property,and I legally own the vehicle, it would make sense that I am able to keep it in my car loaded correct?

    Here is a link to the Bill... http://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/bill...=SB1774&ga=108
    Last edited by tleonard55; 09-17-2014 at 04:52 PM.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tleonard55 View Post
    The question is much more complicated than that. I know I can own a handgun at my age,20.

    However I cannot get a CC or OC permit until I am 21.

    The new law passed earlier this year,Senate Bill 1774, says that you no longer need a permit to keep a firearm in your car with the intent to go armed. Please read the bill for a better description.

    The police think that if I were over 21 this would be okay but since im 20 it isn't? There is no law stating that it is illegal to own a handgun under 21 but there is a lwa saying that it is illegal to own a handgun under age 18.

    So if I am legally able to own the handgun on my own property,and I legally own the vehicle, it would make sense that I am able to keep it in my car loaded correct?

    Here is a link to the Bill... http://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/bill...=SB1774&ga=108
    "Or purchasing a firearm under state law". Notice the word or.... Hence me asking. Can you legally purchase a firearm under state law? Not from a dealer but how about privately?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    "Or purchasing a firearm under state law". Notice the word or.... Hence me asking. Can you legally purchase a firearm under state law? Not from a dealer but how about privately?



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    yes I can privately.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tleonard55 View Post
    yes I can privately.
    Then sounds good to me. I'm not a lawyer but the link you showed has 2 elements to legally possess firearm in a vehicle. Legal control of vehicle (you don't even need to own it) and be able to possess under federal law OR purchase according to state law.

    Granted what you posted was a summary and not the actual text of the statute so I could still be wrong but it sounds like your legit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post

    The link you posted is to a bill. A bill is just proposed legislation. Many, many bills are introduced every year and only some of them actually become law. No one, including the police officers involved and members of this forum, can tell whether this bill passed or not. If it did pass, as you say it did, it should be available in the Tennessee Code. I suspect that you will have more luck showing that to people. It means nothing in bill form. The only Tennessee law that I can find is 39-17-1313. That statute seems to require a permit to "store or transport" a firearm in a vehicle. It says that it is current through the 2014 legislative session. If there is some other law, I suggest you post a link here. Are you sure SB 1717 passed and was signed into law? I wouldn't want to bet my freedom on something I couldn't prove.
    Yes, it did pass. Here's the link to the bill in its public chapter form (Public Chapter 870).

    http://state.tn.us/sos/acts/108/pub/pc0870.pdf

    The reason you may not have found it easily is that it modified only a portion of an existing TCA (T.C.A. 39-17-1307, subsection (e)). As for the code section you cited, that one refers to the enhanced protection afforded to permit holders. To make a long story short, here's how it works. Any person that can legally own a firearm (handgun or long gun) can have it in their car, loaded or unloaded, concealed or open with no permit pursuant to T.C.A. 39-17-1307(e). However, this provision does not allow a person to store a firearm in their vehicle if (1) the vehicle is on school grounds, or (2) the vehicle is on private property where the property owner has properly posted the parking lot "no weapons allowed" pursuant to section 1359. This is where section 1313 comes into play. Generally, as long as a permit holder has a handgun concealed in their vehicle (and locked within the vehicle when the permit holder is away from it) and as long as the vehicle is parked where the person is permitted to park, the permit holder may keep a handgun in their car while on school property or on property properly posted as "no weapons allowed".

    Disclaimer: I am not an attorney. None of the above information is, or should be construed as, legal advice. I accept no legal liability for any actions that any person may or make not take based on this information. For legal advice, consult an attorney licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction.
    Last edited by Nascar24Glock; 09-18-2014 at 12:04 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascar24Glock View Post
    Yes, it did pass. Here's the link to the bill in its public chapter form (Public Chapter 870).

    http://state.tn.us/sos/acts/108/pub/pc0870.pdf

    The reason you may not have found it easily is that it modified only a portion of an existing TCA (T.C.A. 39-17-1307, subsection (e)). As for the code section you cited, that one refers to the enhanced protection afforded to permit holders. To make a long story short, here's how it works. Any person that can legally own a firearm (handgun or long gun) can have it in their car, loaded or unloaded, concealed or open with no permit pursuant to T.C.A. 39-17-1307(e). However, this provision does not allow a person to store a firearm in their vehicle if (1) the vehicle is on school grounds, or (2) the vehicle is on private property where the property owner has properly posted the parking lot "no weapons allowed" pursuant to section 1359. This is where section 1313 comes into play. Generally, as long as a permit holder has a handgun concealed in their vehicle (and locked within the vehicle when the permit holder is away from it) and as long as the vehicle is parked where the person is permitted to park, the permit holder may keep a handgun in their car while on school property or on property properly posted as "no weapons allowed".

    Disclaimer: I am not an attorney. None of the above information is, or should be construed as, legal advice. I accept no legal liability for any actions that any person may or make not take based on this information. For legal advice, consult an attorney licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction.
    So basically I should be good to go? I noticed you're from JC I live in Bristol and work in Elizabethton pretty cool that we are close by.

    But From what I have read of the Bill and from what I understand I should be able to keep any firearm I want inside of my vehicle. The police were unsure whether or not I was able to have it they even gave me my gun back but then told me it was against the law. lol

    They seem to think you cannot own a handgun unless you are 21 which I dont believe is true either. I am almost certain you can own a handgun at 18 but cannot get your OC or CC permit until 21.

    Thanks for everyones help its much appreciated!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post

    The link you posted is to a bill. A bill is just proposed legislation. Many, many bills are introduced every year and only some of them actually become law. No one, including the police officers involved and members of this forum, can tell whether this bill passed or not. If it did pass, as you say it did, it should be available in the Tennessee Code. I suspect that you will have more luck showing that to people. It means nothing in bill form. The only Tennessee law that I can find is 39-17-1313. That statute seems to require a permit to "store or transport" a firearm in a vehicle. It says that it is current through the 2014 legislative session. If there is some other law, I suggest you post a link here. Are you sure SB 1717 passed and was signed into law? I wouldn't want to bet my freedom on something I couldn't prove.
    Yes the Bill was passed July 1st this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tleonard55 View Post
    So basically I should be good to go? I noticed you're from JC I live in Bristol and work in Elizabethton pretty cool that we are close by.

    But From what I have read of the Bill and from what I understand I should be able to keep any firearm I want inside of my vehicle. The police were unsure whether or not I was able to have it they even gave me my gun back but then told me it was against the law. lol

    They seem to think you cannot own a handgun unless you are 21 which I dont believe is true either. I am almost certain you can own a handgun at 18 but cannot get your OC or CC permit until 21.

    Thanks for everyones help its much appreciated!
    My CC instructor tried to say the same thing (can't own a handgun until you're 21). Then again, he also spent a couple of minutes belittling OC. Thing is, that's not what the law says.

    Yes, there are a few states where you actually have to be 21 to legally buy a handgun (Ohio being one of them, for instance, although interestingly if you're a resident of another state that allows private sales and buy one while being age 18-20, you can then move to OH and still legally own it). This is also by default true in many (all?) states that completely ban private sales of handguns. However, most states including Tennessee follow the Federal rules. The Federal rules say that a person age 18-20 (1) cannot buy a handgun from a Federally licensed dealer, and (2) cannot buy ammunition "intended for a handgun" from a licensed retail establishment. A person age 18-20 may however legally buy a handgun and handgun ammunition from a private seller, have these items gifted to him/her, and legally own it.

    Disclaimer: I am not an attorney. None of the above information is, or should be construed as, legal advice. I accept no legal liability for any actions that any person may or make not take based on this information. For legal advice, consult an attorney licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction.
    Last edited by Nascar24Glock; 09-19-2014 at 09:07 PM.
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    Ignorance of a change in law by police officers is pretty common...

    According to the law, as long as you legally own the handgun, and are in legal possession of the car, you are fine. That doesn't mean some stupid cop won't arrest you and you'll have to prove it in a court of law.

    You should keep printed out copies of the law about gun ownership that shows its 18+ to own a gun, as well as the new law (whole section including the re-write) where it says you can have it in your car... maybe it can help.

    Also... in TN, you are under no legal obligation anywhere I can find to inform a police officer that you have a weapon on you. Just don't tell them you have a gun in your car unless its about to become an issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascar24Glock View Post
    My CC instructor tried to say the same thing (can't own a handgun until you're 21). Then again, he also spent a couple of minutes belittling OC. Thing is, that's not what the law says.

    Yes, there are a few states where you actually have to be 21 to legally buy a handgun (Ohio being one of them, for instance, although interestingly if you're a resident of another state that allows private sales and buy one while being age 18-20, you can then move to OH and still legally own it). This is also by default true in many (all?) states that completely ban private sales of handguns. However, most states including Tennessee follow the Federal rules. The Federal rules say that a person age 18-20 (1) cannot buy a handgun from a Federally licensed dealer, and (2) cannot buy ammunition "intended for a handgun" from a licensed retail establishment. A person age 18-20 may however legally buy a handgun and handgun ammunition from a private seller, have these items gifted to him/her, and legally own it.

    Disclaimer: I am not an attorney. None of the above information is, or should be construed as, legal advice. I accept no legal liability for any actions that any person may or make not take based on this information. For legal advice, consult an attorney licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction.
    16 yrs old for a farmhand or cowboy I think .. yee haw ... don't recall is this is for possession and use or to purchase too ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjohnson44546 View Post
    Ignorance of a change in law by police officers is pretty common...

    According to the law, as long as you legally own the handgun, and are in legal possession of the car, you are fine. That doesn't mean some stupid cop won't arrest you and you'll have to prove it in a court of law.

    You should keep printed out copies of the law about gun ownership that shows its 18+ to own a gun, as well as the new law (whole section including the re-write) where it says you can have it in your car... maybe it can help.

    Also... in TN, you are under no legal obligation anywhere I can find to inform a police officer that you have a weapon on you. Just don't tell them you have a gun in your car unless its about to become an issue.
    Basically, ignorance of the law is no excuse... unless you are an ignorant cop.

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjohnson44546 View Post
    Also... in TN, you are under no legal obligation anywhere I can find to inform a police officer that you have a weapon on you. Just don't tell them you have a gun in your car unless its about to become an issue.
    An LEO actually told me that this weekend. I knew it already but it's seems uncommon for LEOs to support it.

  19. #19
    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    An LEO actually told me that this weekend. I knew it already but it's seems uncommon for LEOs to support it.
    Agreed...

    Have you seen that youtube where the cop completely freaks, yelling something like "that's the first [expletive] thing they teach you in the [expletive] class: inform the officer...inform the officer!!! I could have shot you!!! I could have [expletive] shot you, you [expletive]!!!!"...and on and on it goes...
    Open means open...

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    Quote Originally Posted by independence View Post
    Agreed...

    Have you seen that youtube where the cop completely freaks, yelling something like "that's the first [expletive] thing they teach you in the [expletive] class: inform the officer...inform the officer!!! I could have shot you!!! I could have [expletive] shot you, you [expletive]!!!!"...and on and on it goes...
    Are you referring to the Ohio cop a couple years back that ultimately lost his job?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascar24Glock View Post
    My CC instructor tried to say the same thing (can't own a handgun until you're 21). Then again, he also spent a couple of minutes belittling OC. Thing is, that's not what the law says.

    Yes, there are a few states where you actually have to be 21 to legally buy a handgun (Ohio being one of them, for instance, although interestingly if you're a resident of another state that allows private sales and buy one while being age 18-20, you can then move to OH and still legally own it). This is also by default true in many (all?) states that completely ban private sales of handguns. However, most states including Tennessee follow the Federal rules. The Federal rules say that a person age 18-20 (1) cannot buy a handgun from a Federally licensed dealer, and (2) cannot buy ammunition "intended for a handgun" from a licensed retail establishment. A person age 18-20 may however legally buy a handgun and handgun ammunition from a private seller, have these items gifted to him/her, and legally own it.

    Disclaimer: I am not an attorney. None of the above information is, or should be construed as, legal advice. I accept no legal liability for any actions that any person may or make not take based on this information. For legal advice, consult an attorney licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction.
    Thanks man I appreciate the help alot. I have read over the law plenty of times and I am almost absolutely certain I am well within the law in keeping my handgun inside of my vehicle. Hopefully there wont be any further issues with it until I turn 21 then I can get my CC and OC permits. The police in carter county don't really seem all that smart anyways. I stopped by the Bluff City police department and we talked for about an hour and they made a few phone calls and they ended up telling me I should be okay but that they aren't giving me permission to do it. I believe next time im not even going to tell the officer I have a weapon in my vehicle since it is not a legal requirement,I was simply doing it to be generous and show him that I am no threat to his safety.

    If they do arrest me for it then I would possibly have a good lawsuit on my hands,but I would rather just not be arrested.

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    Ok, in Tennessee you have to be 18 to legally purchase a weapon. You must be 21 to get a Handgun Carry Permit (I wish people would stop calling it a Concealed Carry permit or CCW. It is neither.) If you legally posses the weapon then you can have it in your possession in your vehicle without a permit.
    It is a disgrace that police officers who are sworn to uphold the law do not know them. When the officer told you that you could not be in possession of your weapon,at that time he told you, erroneously, what the law was.

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    does this new law about having a gun in a car or truck without permit in tennessee work for non residents too? i live in kentucky, thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boomer92266 View Post
    does this new law about having a gun in a car or truck without permit in tennessee work for non residents too? i live in kentucky, thanks.
    I'd assume so.. the way I read the law is.. it says if its a legally operated private vehicle, and you can legally own the gun... then you can have it loaded and ready for use in your vehicle. I never saw anything about being a resident of TN.

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    Protip-and let this be your first lesson: do not seek legal advice from the police. They are not obligated to know the law, and they are under no obligation to tell the truth even if they do, and under no obligation to go find it for you if they don't know it. They can even tell you a boldface lie just to get you to go away, and face no repercussions for it.
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