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Thread: MI - OC Advocate arrested and jailed by DETROIT police.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Exclamation MI - OC Advocate arrested and jailed by DETROIT police.

    This is one write up from a local publication. Interesting read IMHO.

    http://www.metrotimes.com/Blogs/arch...t-rally-sunday

    FUQ -

    "Sources say that an interracial open-carry group is leading a protest this weekend to pressure authorities over the illegal arrest of one of its members.
    The group, Hell's Saints, is one of many groups trying to raise consciousness about open-carry laws by carrying their legal firearms in public places and educating the public — and often the police — about the law. Naturally, those on the side of tighter gun controls find this sort of activism provocative. And given the way gun control is often framed as a "left-wing" issue in the United States, open-carry activists tend to be dismissed in the mainstream media as a bunch of defiant right-wing nutballs.
    But here's something that may cause some people to rethink their positions on the issue: Hell's Saints, the Michigan-based open-carry group, generally seem like a bunch of cool guys. Their members are white and black, and the videos show them risking the wrath of ill-informed police to spread a message of freedom to the general public............. "
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 09-18-2014 at 01:15 AM. Reason: add FUQ
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    Interesting . Do you need a permit to open-carry in MI? Seems discriminatory from the article.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterNSteinmetz View Post
    Interesting . Do you need a permit to open-carry in MI? Seems discriminatory from the article.
    No. Any non prohibited citizen, age 18 & up may open carry in MI. The problem is those 18-20 years of age cannot buy a pistol to carry from a FFL & they cannot get a MI CC permit until they are 21, and: take a NRA 8hr course including live fire. ($150 usually) Then pay a $105 permit fee (picture if not supplied from applicant adds $10). Then wait anywhere from a month to six months depending on local gun board. Oh and some counties require applicants to appear before their gun boards to explain why they should be granted a permit even though that violates MI shall issue law, usually in the middle of the day and always during a work week. This scheme pretty much excludes the poor from getting the permit, which in my opinion is the intent. This area, S.E. MI, is one of the most racially segregated Metropolitan centers in the U.S.A.

    Point of clarity - OC without a CC permit in MI is full of legal traps. It basically limits people to OC on foot and they must be wary of schools and multiple other locations (too numerous to list here, but that includes any place that sells alcohol, think: kroger/fry's/walmart /party stores / gas stations etc...).

    These guys know the law inside & out. I find it hard to swallow that Elijah Woody suddenly forgot them.
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 09-18-2014 at 01:30 AM. Reason: clarify MI OC
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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    follow up story from local press in Detroit -
    http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...-+MLive.com%29

    FUQ-

    "DETROIT, MI -- They didn't need signs or catchy chants. Their message was conveyed by the rifles slung over their shoulders and the handguns holstered to their hips.

    Organized by open-carry activist organization Hell's Saints, about 20 men and women toting guns walked south from the Family Dollar parking lot at 9737 Mound in Detroit to the Detroit Police Department Northeast Precinct.

    The purpose was two-fold, to educate the public about open-carry rights and to protest the Sept. 13 arrest of Elijah Woody, 24, of Detroit.

    Elijah Woody, who claims he was legally open-carrying his handgun when Detroit police arrested him, is charged with carrying a concealed weapon without a license, a felony punishable by up to five years in prison."
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Regular Member wittmeba's Avatar
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    What I find funny about Open Carry marches is there is never trouble caused by the activists. The trouble seems to come from the anti's and police.

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    It's becoming increasingly dangerous to be an American in this country.

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plan B View Post
    It's becoming increasingly dangerous to be an American in this country.
    A damn shame, considering how dangerous it already is to be an American in any other country.

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Creamsicle View Post
    A damn shame, considering how dangerous it already is to be an American in any other country.
    By the way, if anybody is interested in helping Elijah Woody with his legal defense (I'm aware most of you used your 'donation budget' on the MOC K-12 case already, which is also a good cause) click the link below or PM me for an address to mail it to.

    ...uh fixing link to post it direct but in the meantime donation button lives here
    Last edited by Evil Creamsicle; 09-26-2014 at 01:31 PM.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Creamsicle View Post
    By the way, if anybody is interested in helping Elijah Woody with his legal defense (I'm aware most of you used your 'donation budget' on the MOC K-12 case already, which is also a good cause) click the link below or PM me for an address to mail it to.

    ...uh fixing link to post it direct but in the meantime donation button lives here
    Michigancarries.org what a fine name for a MI 2A/Civil Liberties group.

    Doesn't exclude anyone and includes as many as possible. Now there's a noble concept. Well done gents.

    http://www.michigancarries.org/

    Donation made!
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post

    Donation made!
    Thank you sir, you champion of liberty you.

    Sorry for the seemingly crude nature of the site... due to the urgency of needing a donation page I had to put that up long before it was ready.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plan B View Post
    It's becoming increasingly dangerous to be an American in this country.
    Well, it is for people who come into contact with me ... I will never surrender my arms to the state under any circumstances.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    MI - OC Advocate arrested and jailed by DETROIT police.

    Looks like charges are moving ahead. So for those who think new police chief Craig is ok with OC, remember he saw the questionable video of the stop too. Apparently he's fine with the officers behavior (taking away of video / phone and throwing it) to avoid a second view of stop, overall thuggish behavior etc...

    Here he is testing a expensive shot tracker software that previous Chiefs admitted they really didn't have the money for, or the man power to respond to... He's looking more and more like just another fly in DPD dancing merrily in the same old pile of crap!

    http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...cker/16409807/
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 09-29-2014 at 11:59 AM.
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    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    Looks like charges are moving ahead. So for those who think new police chief Craig is ok with OC, remember he saw the questionable video of the stop too. Apparently he's fine with the officers behavior (taking away of video / phone and throwing it) to avoid a second view of stop, overall thuggish behavior etc...

    Here he is testing a expensive shot tracker software that previous Chiefs admitted they really didn't have the money for, or the man power to respond to... He's looking more and more like just another fly in DPD dancing merrily in the same old pile of crap!

    http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...cker/16409807/
    I don't know if I am ready to throw the Chief under the bus quite yet. I have not seen the dash cam footage. While I tend to side with OCers vs cops on a regular basis I still like to see evidence one way or the other.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    I don't know if I am ready to throw the Chief under the bus quite yet. I have not seen the dash cam footage. While I tend to side with OCers vs cops on a regular basis I still like to see evidence one way or the other.
    OK? So if you are an upright chief and you see your officers first action is to: grab the OCers cell phone and chuck it to prevent him from recording, would not that cause you concern? After all as police are so found of saying, if you have nothing to hide, why mind being recorded? Being a upright chief, wouldn't you ask questions about that? Actions (or lack there of) speak loudly. They (DPD) have not released the video, I am told that at best, the video is inconclusive (read as doesn't support police assertions), by the one civilian who was allowed to view it. So for now, that's all we have to go on. That said and knowing how DPD has handled their "business" in the past, I am much more inclined to believe Mr. Woody's account at this point. YMMV - hope you never get jammed up Raggs. You'll find getting experts at bending and twisting the law to suit their own needs, very adept at avoiding giving up anything until their "system" has chewed up and spit out their intended example.
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    OK? So if you are an upright chief and you see your officers first action is to: grab the OCers cell phone and chuck it to prevent him from recording, would not that cause you concern? After all as police are so found of saying, if you have nothing to hide, why mind being recorded? Being a upright chief, wouldn't you ask questions about that? Actions (or lack there of) speak loudly. They (DPD) have not released the video, I am told that at best, the video is inconclusive (read as doesn't support police assertions), by the one civilian who was allowed to view it. So for now, that's all we have to go on. That said and knowing how DPD has handled their "business" in the past, I am much more inclined to believe Mr. Woody's account at this point. YMMV - hope you never get jammed up Raggs. You'll find getting experts at bending and twisting the law to suit their own needs, very adept at avoiding giving up anything until their "system" has chewed up and spit out their intended example.
    Is that was is on the video? I have not seen it. Inconclusive means just that, it might not be supportive of Mr Woody's position as well, we do not know. Everything I have read up to this point about the Chief has been positive to our side, I would like to see the evidence. BTW without a FOIA why would the police release the video, is that a common practice?
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Never mind .. Carry on
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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    Never mind .. Carry on
    Being pretty well aware of whats going on here I would say that the police do not deserve the benefit of the doubt, and that your prior knowledge from years of experience with this region has you on the right track.

    The chief may deserve the benefit of the doubt, and in fact he has tried to be transparent in showing the vid, and yes the fact he did that was unusual and a decent gesture. In an agency of that size it is entirely plausible that all kinds of corrupt things go on that he never hears of and wouldn't find out about even if he wanted to. I am not ready to call him a friend or an enemy.

    I am going to keep what I have learned about this case with Mr Woody quiet, it need not be shared by me, that is for others in due time. I will however say that the dpd has a long and rich history of using their corrupt system for wholesale railroading ocers. Years ago this forum's member theszerdi was one, and even with dean greenblatt on his side he had a nasty legal battle. Since then there have been numerous others, primarily black men who don't post here. They have been interviewed on video which is backed up in many on and off the net locations with many people. In some of the cases the dpd has confiscated their guns and put in lein that they are under investigation, which goes on indefinitely, thereby taking away their gun rights for no reason without so much as a trial.

    Calling out Wayne county in general for ocer abuse is prudent, but Detroit is its own special mess.
    Last edited by Michigander; 09-29-2014 at 05:35 PM.
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    Regular Member MikeTheGreek's Avatar
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    Although I obviously think you should be able to OC without a CPL and not get arrested, it's always smart to have a CPL just in case a cop decides to say your jacket "folded over your firearm" and concealed it.

    Although, still not sure how he was checked for a CPL anyway, considering whether my gun is OC, CC, printing, half out, etc..you have absolutely no reason to try and see my ID, and if you try to forcefully take it you're going to have a bad day and one hell of a lawsuit.

    Hopefully this guy gets off, the fact they're going through the charges is crazy, especially since I've OC'd in Detroit at work for years and haven't had any trouble.

    But then again...I'm White. Gotta love America...Jesus.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeTheGreek View Post
    Although I obviously think you should be able to OC without a CPL and not get arrested, it's always smart to have a CPL just in case a cop decides to say your jacket "folded over your firearm" and concealed it.

    Although, still not sure how he was checked for a CPL anyway, considering whether my gun is OC, CC, printing, half out, etc..you have absolutely no reason to try and see my ID, and if you try to forcefully take it you're going to have a bad day and one hell of a lawsuit.

    Hopefully this guy gets off, the fact they're going through the charges is crazy, especially since I've OC'd in Detroit at work for years and haven't had any trouble.

    But then again...I'm White. Gotta love America...Jesus.
    Sometimes the things you say....

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Well, seems to me that he was arrested for "carrying while black." Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt it.
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    Regular Member MikeTheGreek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizzi01 View Post
    Sometimes the things you say....
    I know exactly what you mean, I feel the same about the things I say sometime...
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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    Well, seems to me that he was arrested for "carrying while black." Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt it.
    Ding, ding, ding, ding!!!!! We have a winner! Give that man a prize!

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    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeTheGreek View Post
    Although I obviously think you should be able to OC without a CPL and not get arrested, it's always smart to have a CPL just in case a cop decides to say your jacket "folded over your firearm" and concealed it.

    Although, still not sure how he was checked for a CPL anyway, considering whether my gun is OC, CC, printing, half out, etc..you have absolutely no reason to try and see my ID, and if you try to forcefully take it you're going to have a bad day and one hell of a lawsuit.

    Hopefully this guy gets off, the fact they're going through the charges is crazy, especially since I've OC'd in Detroit at work for years and haven't had any trouble.

    But then again...I'm White. Gotta love America...Jesus.
    According to one article I read the officers "smelled marijuana" and that was the RAS. Also supposedly found a joint on the ground near the group. Not saying it is true, just what has been reported.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    According to one article I read the officers "smelled marijuana" and that was the RAS. Also supposedly found a joint on the ground near the group. Not saying it is true, just what has been reported.
    Try walking around many parts of the D for any length of time without running into clouds of weed smoke. It isn't really doable. We aren't exactly as inundated with it here as ban francisco and such where you'll be choking on the crap just trying to go outside, but it's all over the place and bumping into it or even stopping to talk to someone/multiple people smoking it does not make you guilty of felony ccw. Such a situation may indeed be grounds for a stop, but that would be immaterial to whether or not a gun is concealed.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    Try walking around many parts of the D for any length of time without running into clouds of weed smoke. It isn't really doable. We aren't exactly as inundated with it here as ban francisco and such where you'll be choking on the crap just trying to go outside, but it's all over the place and bumping into it or even stopping to talk to someone/multiple people smoking it does not make you guilty of felony ccw. Such a situation may indeed be grounds for a stop, but that would be immaterial to whether or not a gun is concealed.
    Once again, I am not saying he is or is not guilty, I haven't seen the video and the video by accounts is not that clear. I am waiting to hear more evidence before I say the present chief is the same as the past. We will see. It could be totally he is guilty of being armed and black, I am not ready to jump on either side yet.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

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