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Thread: Judge Fred Bonner, Seattle Municiple court, said that Washington is NOT an OC state.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Judge Fred Bonner, Seattle Municiple court, said that Washington is NOT an OC state.

    During sentencing today, for the trespassing in the Washington Convention center, I was told that I cannot open carry a pistol as part of my sentence. I can still conceal carry, so long as I have a permit to do so.

    My attorney objected stating that Washington is an open carry state, the judge stated that Washington is NOT an open carry state and that the statute (law) clearly stated that.

    I am floored, flabbergasted, and shocked at the level of stupidity that this judge had displayed.

    Also, there is a 5000 bond for a stay of sentencing in my case.
    Last edited by Freedom1Man; 09-20-2014 at 07:18 AM. Reason: spelling/clarification.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    Wow that's nuts. Someone may want to send that judge the all the previous Appellate decisions on it as well as the myriad Police Department training bulletins...

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    Regular Member massivedesign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    During sentencing today, for the trespassing in the Washington Convention center, I was told that I cannot open carry a pistol as part of my sentence. I can still conceal carry, so long as I have a permit to do so.

    My attorney objected stating that Washington is an open carry state, the judge stated that Washington is NOT an open carry state and that the state clearly stated that.

    I am floored, flabbergasted, and shocked at the level of stupidity that this judge had displayed.

    Also, there is a 5000 bond for a stay of sentencing in my case.



    I take it you are going to appeal it?
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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    During sentencing today, for the trespassing in the Washington Convention center, I was told that I cannot open carry a pistol as part of my sentence. I can still conceal carry, so long as I have a permit to do so.

    My attorney objected stating that Washington is an open carry state, the judge stated that Washington is NOT an open carry state and that the state clearly stated that.

    I am floored, flabbergasted, and shocked at the level of stupidity that this judge had displayed.

    Also, there is a 5000 bond for a stay of sentencing in my case.
    pfffttt you can carry where and how you like in a court. Public building. Either he's ignorant or he deliberately lied to you. Both of which debar him from being a judge. How did you get trespassed?
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    Looks like you have to file a motion for reconsideration where you can hand the idiot the law, but beware-he'll likely still ignore it.

    Unfortunately, you had a case heard by commie.

    I'll assume that the judge knows his ruling is incorrect but also knows that the likelihood of you appealing it is low just due to the cost.

    Will this effect your permit?

    People in robs, sorry robes-slip of the tongue, tend to ignore the law when it suits them. I've had a judge tell me that he thought I presented evidence and argument enough to win my case but that he was still going to rule against me. Judges? Don't trust 'em, they are not designed to seek out truth, they on the whole don't have very high intelligence, and they know where to butter their toast.

    Of course, all mine have been non-criminal cases ... a huge difference. You must really be pissed.

    Time to get ready for this judge's re-election and try to get him off the bench this way.

    So a judge told you that you cannot OC ... you gonna OC anyways?

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    pfffttt you can carry where and how you like in a court. Public building. Either he's ignorant or he deliberately lied to you. Both of which debar him from being a judge. How did you get trespassed?
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ivate-Property

    This is the thread about that.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by massivedesign View Post


    I take it you are going to appeal it?
    Yes the public defender is going to go through the appeal for me. He was ready to appeal at almost the start of the trial the judge was so bad then even.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Looks like you have to file a motion for reconsideration where you can hand the idiot the law, but beware-he'll likely still ignore it.

    Unfortunately, you had a case heard by commie.

    I'll assume that the judge knows his ruling is incorrect but also knows that the likelihood of you appealing it is low just due to the cost.

    Will this effect your permit?
    No, he said that I can CC only so long as I have a CPL.

    He also said that if I pay the 5k for my stay of sentencing I can OC pending the outcome of the appeal.

    My GF, who if she had not heard the judge say those things, pointed out that if OC was illegal then there would be no need for a court order to not do so.
    No kidding. This guy is one of the most overturned judges in the state from what my GF pulled up.


    People in robs, sorry robes-slip of the tongue, tend to ignore the law when it suits them. I've had a judge tell me that he thought I presented evidence and argument enough to win my case but that he was still going to rule against me. Judges? Don't trust 'em, they are not designed to seek out truth, they on the whole don't have very high intelligence, and they know where to butter their toast.

    Of course, all mine have been non-criminal cases ... a huge difference. You must really be pissed.

    Time to get ready for this judge's re-election and try to get him off the bench this way.

    So a judge told you that you cannot OC ... you gonna OC anyways?
    And yes, I am really irritated. I have 80 hours of community service to do in 45 days or 10 days in jail or 5k bond/bail to have a stay of sentencing.

    IDK, if I will OC for now or not, it's a rather difficult situation to be in. I've been arrested for OC in the past. etc etc.

    This same judge is the one who wrote the procedures for pistol lock up in that court house. They 'require' ID and a CPL to lock up while visiting. I told them that no CPL was required to OC and that there was no law requiring me to carry ID. "Well how are we going to make sure that you get your pistol(s) back if you don't have ID?" They don't even check your ID, even if you used to to lock up, to return it to you in the first place, so I know that they are liars.
    Last edited by Freedom1Man; 09-22-2014 at 06:55 PM.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    I owuld have told him to put me in the clink instead of paying any fine or community service ... make them spend $$$.

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    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    $5000 or 10 days without work? No brainer for me. I need a break from work and I sure as heck don't make $5000 in 10 days. Too bad I couldn't go on "vacation" for you.
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tombrewster421 View Post
    $5000 or 10 days without work? No brainer for me. I need a break from work and I sure as heck don't make $5000 in 10 days. Too bad I couldn't go on "vacation" for you.
    The problem with this is similar to my issue. Say he goes to jail but he files his appeal and his case is overturned on appeal. What now? He has now served time in jail and/or paid whatever fine imposed and then the case is overturned/dismissed on appeal. For what? He gets punished for doing nothing wrong in the eyes of the higher courts.

    This is just one flaw in our court system. People are forced to pay/do time even if they are eventually found not guilty or the case is dismissed.
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    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    Then he sues the crap out if them for false arrest.
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I owuld have told him to put me in the clink instead of paying any fine or community service ... make them spend $$$.
    The judge might order him to repay the expense of jail...
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    I sure wish you would post (as previously requested) some of or all of the motions filings, etc, so we can know what really happened.

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    I sure wish you would post (as previously requested) some of or all of the motions filings, etc, so we can know what really happened.
    Can't be done till after he gets a copy of the transcript and/or court recording. I have the same problem right now.
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    Regular Member cjohnson44546's Avatar
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    I dont understand how it can be CC only there.

    It specifically says someone with a CPL can have a gun... it doesn't say concealed.

    The law for a CPL does not say CC is required with a CPL, just that it allows it to be done...

    Does the prosecutor and judge have mental issues?

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjohnson44546 View Post
    I dont understand how it can be CC only there.

    It specifically says someone with a CPL can have a gun... it doesn't say concealed.

    The law for a CPL does not say CC is required with a CPL, just that it allows it to be done...

    Does the prosecutor and judge have mental issues?
    I believe so. Judge Hightower was the first judge to say that it was CC only and then Bonner backed it up. The persecutor could not even figure out the trespassing charge in the beginning. I believe I linked to a video of Hightower talking about, white male privilege.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The judge might order him to repay the expense of jail...
    They do that now?

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tombrewster421 View Post
    $5000 or 10 days without work? No brainer for me. I need a break from work and I sure as heck don't make $5000 in 10 days. Too bad I couldn't go on "vacation" for you.
    It's a 5000 bond that, in theory would be returned to at the end of the appeal process. The no OC would be on top of the 10 days in jail or 80 hours of community service.

    I considered the 10days in place of the 80hrs but the GF told me a flat out "NO!" on that issue. I was informed by my other half that 10 days in lock up is not an option as long as I am with her.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    It's a 5000 bond that, in theory would be returned to at the end of the appeal process. The no OC would be on top of the 10 days in jail or 80 hours of community service.

    I considered the 10days in place of the 80hrs but the GF told me a flat out "NO!" on that issue. I was informed by my other half that 10 days in lock up is not an option as long as I am with her.
    I would have chosen the 10 days...get all that free medical, food and housing....

    The GF thinks you will cheat on her ? lol

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I would have chosen the 10 days...get all that free medical, food and housing....

    The GF thinks you will cheat on her ? lol
    Not really free.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I would have chosen the 10 days...get all that free medical, food and housing....

    The GF thinks you will cheat on her ? lol
    It's not free. They charge you for each day, charge you for medical, and charge you for food. Then, if you don't pay for these "fees", you can go to jail again for failure to pay, having to deal with the fact that you can lose your driver's license for not paying the "fees". Then there are the indirect costs involving the time spent in jail. These include money lost from not working, maybe losing your job.

    Then there are costs directly related after you get out of jail. These include paying for your own probation monitoring, paying for drug testing, paying to do community service, paying to have a jury trial (paying the jury members), and paying for "overtime" for police officers to testify... You get the idea. If you don't believe me, look it up for yourself.

    Even worse is the fact that because jails are so overcrowded, you can actually show up to the jail to serve your sentence only to be turned away and told to come back the next month and try again. This can be lead to a perpetual cycle leading to lots of wasted time and money on your part as the inmate.
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    Open carry is only legal by virtue, that there is no law on the books making it illegal.


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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spooler41 View Post
    Open carry is only legal by virtue, that there is no law on the books making it illegal.


    .......................Jack
    You, the appellate court, the state AG, any reasonable and logical person, and I would agree on that.

    Please note that this is a judge from the Seattle municipal court saying this along with the Seattle persecutor. Neither of which are Americans (in my opinion at least).
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    During sentencing today, for the trespassing in the Washington Convention center, I was told that I cannot open carry a pistol as part of my sentence. I can still conceal carry, so long as I have a permit to do so.

    My attorney objected stating that Washington is an open carry state, the judge stated that Washington is NOT an open carry state and that the statute (law) clearly stated that.

    I am floored, flabbergasted, and shocked at the level of stupidity that this judge had displayed.

    Also, there is a 5000 bond for a stay of sentencing in my case.
    State v. Gregory Casad It wasn't a published opinion, but it was still an opinion.

    I'm not sure if telling someone they cannot carry a firearm in a legal and constitutionally-protected manner will stand the constitutional smell test.

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Workman View Post
    State v. Gregory Casad It wasn't a published opinion, but it was still an opinion.

    I'm not sure if telling someone they cannot carry a firearm in a legal and constitutionally-protected manner will stand the constitutional smell test.
    I have already provided the OP with the attorney general opinion regarding "when one is required to have a CPL" in this state Dating from February 28, 2008. This opinion also includes references to both State v. Spencer and State v. Casad

    /snip

    Turning to Washington's firearms laws, a person is generally not required to obtain a license or permit to own or carry a firearm. The one exception to this general rule is that a person must obtain a license to carry a pistol concealed on his or her person. RCW 9.41.050(1) - (2)(a)(iii) provides:
    So the judge in the OPs case is obviously disregarding clearly established case law and is also ordering the OP to cease exercising a constitutional right.
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

    There are two constants when dealing with liberals:
    1) Liberals never quit until they are satisfied.
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