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Thread: Other than honorable discharge?

  1. #1
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    Other than honorable discharge?

    Evening all,

    First time posting here as I stumbled upon this good site while Googling the question I have for you all. I just purchased a handgun with a permit from a shop in Charlotte a couple weeks back. Caldwell county gave me the permit no problem. Took four days, not too bad. As my VA concealed permit is no longer good since I am now a resident of NC, I decided to take the class to get the certificate so I could apply for my concealed here in NC. Took the class, got my certificate and set my appointment up at the sheriffs to get fingerprinted. Upon reading the requirements it says that I can be declined if I have anything other than a Honorable discharge. 30 some odd years ago while in the navy I received an other than honorable for being young and stupid. No civilian conviction, no military conviction, just the OTH. Am I screwed now? How can they give me a purchase permit and not a concealed. I have looked and looked for the statutes, but I do not see anything.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated. I did the customary search here but get conflicting stories.

    Thanks guys.

    Sid

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    Oth

    Quote Originally Posted by cityjack View Post
    Evening all,

    First time posting here as I stumbled upon this good site while Googling the question I have for you all. I just purchased a handgun with a permit from a shop in Charlotte a couple weeks back. Caldwell county gave me the permit no problem. Took four days, not too bad. As my VA concealed permit is no longer good since I am now a resident of NC, I decided to take the class to get the certificate so I could apply for my concealed here in NC. Took the class, got my certificate and set my appointment up at the sheriffs to get fingerprinted. Upon reading the requirements it says that I can be declined if I have anything other than a Honorable discharge. 30 some odd years ago while in the navy I received an other than honorable for being young and stupid. No civilian conviction, no military conviction, just the OTH. Am I screwed now? How can they give me a purchase permit and not a concealed. I have looked and looked for the statutes, but I do not see anything.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated. I did the customary search here but get conflicting stories.

    Thanks guys.

    Sid

    How did you ever get a gun? I thought that any thing other than honorable discharge was a disqualifying factor for buying any gun.

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    Purchase permit

    Not a problem. 4 days.

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    Form 4473?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    ATF Form 4473 prohibits on dishonorable discharge.
    Not sure how that equates to me applying for a concealed permit with an OTH sir?

    Still need help.

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    first, welcome to the NC sub forum and thanks for the very good question.

    since you didn't articulate the document you received from the county, i, though a leap of faith, presume you received a purchase pistol permit. that being the case, an Under Other then Honorable Discharge (UOTHD) is not considered a prohibitor for issuance of a PPP but is a state prohibitior for issuance of a Concealed handgun permit (CHP).

    therefore, you were granted your PPP which you used IAW NC statutes to purchase your firearm from the FFL, but you might save your hard earned money taking the class for your CHP as well as giving the sheriff for further monies to process the CHP since in the majority of the NC counties they are asking for your DD Form 214. NC Statute 14-415.12(b)(7) http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislat...ticle_54B.html


    suggestion, you might go to the deputy in charge of CHPs in your county and ask for a conference and discuss your CHP options such as if there is a statute of limitations for UOTHD, e.g. after 1970?

    some further related links for your reading pleasure:

    1. http://www.ncdoj.gov/getdoc/32344299...-gun-Laws.aspx
    2. http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/statutes/statutes.asp

    again welcome to the nc subform.

    ipse

    now OP, why worry about getting a CHP since you can still get PPPs to purchase firearms in the state and always remember your new state is a model OC state where you can carry the same places as those with a CHP.
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    ATF Form 4473 prohibits on dishonorable discharge.
    nightmare, et al., it is not a dishonorable discharge but rather a separate category of under other than honorable discharge.

    remember, NC citizens do not go through NCIS checks as defined by ATF guidance.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 09-23-2014 at 07:00 PM.
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Oth

    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    nightmare, et al., it is not a dishonorable discharge but rather a separate category of under other than honorable discharge.

    remember, NC citizens do not go through NCIS checks as defined by ATF guidance.

    ipse

    So I guess I am SOL huh? Even 30 years ago? No CHP for me? I will contact the deputy as you guys suggest. Thank you for the links. That stinks, VA was good with it and NC says no. What does NCIS have to do with the CHP process for NC?

    Thanks guys.
    Last edited by cityjack; 09-23-2014 at 07:14 PM.

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    Ppp

    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    first, welcome to the NC sub forum and thanks for the very good question.

    since you didn't articulate the document you received from the county, i, though a leap of faith, presume you received a purchase pistol permit. that being the case, an Under Other then Honorable Discharge (UOTHD) is not considered a prohibitor for issuance of a PPP but is a state prohibitior for issuance of a Concealed handgun permit (CHP).

    therefore, you were granted your PPP which you used IAW NC statutes to purchase your firearm from the FFL, but you might save your hard earned money taking the class for your CHP as well as giving the sheriff for further monies to process the CHP since in the majority of the NC counties they are asking for your DD Form 214. NC Statute 14-415.12(b)(7) http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislat...ticle_54B.html


    suggestion, you might go to the deputy in charge of CHPs in your county and ask for a conference and discuss your CHP options such as if there is a statute of limitations for UOTHD, e.g. after 1970?

    some further related links for your reading pleasure:

    1. http://www.ncdoj.gov/getdoc/32344299...-gun-Laws.aspx
    2. http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/statutes/statutes.asp

    again welcome to the nc subform.

    ipse

    now OP, why worry about getting a CHP since you can still get PPPs to purchase firearms in the state and always remember your new state is a model OC state where you can carry the same places as those with a CHP.
    Yes it was a pistol purchase permit sir. So I still we be able to get permits though huh?

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    Class and application

    Bad for me I guess. I already took the class and placed the app with the sheriff today. I put no for the discharge question. Not meaning to deceive, I just thought it was the same question like on the purchase app. So now what happens?

  10. #10
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Other than honorable is not a dishonorable discharge, it could be for many reasons. A dishonorable discharge results from a court martial, unless the soldier pleads guilty, it is the same as a felony. I may be off but I believe after so many years you can get a less than honorable changed to a honorable.

    Just be honest, at worst you will be out 90 dollars.
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    No sadly oth is always oth.

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    Yes, you can get your OTH discharge upgraded. There is an established procedure and you can start the process by reading http://www.military.com/benefits/rec...ge-review.html

    In your case it looks like
    "However, if the discharge was more than 15 years ago, a veteran must petition the appropriate service Board for Correction of Military Records using DoD Form 149, which is discussed in the “Correction of Military Records”
    is the route you will need to take.

    Even if you are not a member of VFW or American Legion you can ask their service assistance specialists to assist you in getting started and perhaps guiding you through the system maze.

    Good luck to you.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    thanks skid, i learn something every day, you are a wealth of outstanding information.

    ipse
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Veterans separated administratively under other than honorable conditions may request that their discharge be reviewed for possible recharacterization, provided they file their appeal within 15 years of the date of separation.

    From the link that skid posted ... ya got 15 yrs, past that, outta luck?


    http://boards.law.af.mil/AF_DRB_CY%202014.htm

    I read through a few of the adjudicated cases ... they don't give out upgrades too often
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 09-23-2014 at 10:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    From the link that skid posted ... ya got 15 yrs, past that, outta luck?
    Actually, it merely states that past 15 years is a different form and different procedure. But still not impossible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    ..... and always remember your new state is a model OC state where you can carry the same places as those with a CHP.
    I disagree. The OP should read the statutes because there are places that you cannot OC but can CC, or you can OC w/CHP.
    Last edited by gary737; 09-24-2014 at 09:18 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Read the disqualifiers section very carefully. In many cases like this (though I am unfamiliar with your state) it is a potential disqualifier, not an automatic one. In other words, it removes the "shall issue" and turns your permit into "may issue." Include a letter with your application describing the circumstances, and your record since.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by gary737 View Post
    I disagree. The OP should read the statutes because there are places that you cannot OC but can CC, or you can OC w/CHP.
    You can OC anyplace you can CC with permission from the owner or management. That includes restaurants that serve alcohol the latest supposed selling point for OC. AND the statute does NOT say you can OC, it says you can carry with a "concealed handgun permit". IMO until a court case clears this up, a person can get arrested, and then LOSE that precious privilege card.

    I have OC'd in several, I ask permission at the door and it is always given. A certain group tried very hard to take away the right for owners to decide for themselves, fortunately they failed.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 09-24-2014 at 09:40 AM.
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    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
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    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gary737 View Post
    I disagree. The OP should read the statutes because there are places that you cannot OC but can CC, or you can OC w/CHP.
    are you just gonna throw the grenade after you forgot to pull the pin or do you have any specifics to back up your random generalization.

    Perhaps we should file your post in the misinformation folder since you felt the need to not put any type of example so you post is truly meaningless at the moment.

    Gary, let me assist you get the ball rolling...you know you can OC in Offices of State or Federal Government but can't CC? (unless conspicuously marked of course!!)
    i have other examples too Gary where you can OC but can't CC.

    the ball is now in your court Gary...

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 09-24-2014 at 09:48 AM. Reason: hate when i stutter when i type
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  20. #20
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Read the disqualifiers section very carefully. In many cases like this (though I am unfamiliar with your state) it is a potential disqualifier, not an automatic one. In other words, it removes the "shall issue" and turns your permit into "may issue." Include a letter with your application describing the circumstances, and your record since.
    MAC, IAW NC statutes as stated in previous posting 14-415.12(b)(7) NC citizens are disqualified to receive a CHP especially tough to circumvent since the sheriffs are asking for DD Form 214.

    since the statute has no 'time frame' reference, it was one of the reasons it was recommended to chat w/his local dep in charge of his county's CHP program.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 09-24-2014 at 09:47 AM.
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    are you just gonna throw the grenade after you forgot to pull the pin or do you have any specifics to back up your random generalization.

    Perhaps we should file your post in the misinformation folder since you felt the need to not put any type of example so you post is truly meaningless at the moment.

    Gary, let me assist you get the ball rolling...you know you can OC in Offices of State or Federal Government but can't CC? (unless conspicuously marked of course!!)

    the ball is now in your court Gary...

    ipse
    § 14-277.2. Weapons at parades, etc., prohibited.
    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person participating in, affiliated with, or present as a spectator at any parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration upon any private health care facility or upon any public place owned or under the control of the State or any of its political subdivisions to .
    .
    .
    .
    (d)The provisions of this section shall not apply to concealed carry of a handgun at a parade or funeral procession by a person with a valid permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter





    I didn't want any "thread drift" from the original discussion. All I was suggesting was for the OP to read the statutes. Nothing more.
    Last edited by gary737; 09-24-2014 at 10:04 AM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by gary737 View Post
    § 14-277.2. Weapons at parades, etc., prohibited.
    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person participating in, affiliated with, or present as a spectator at any parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration upon any private health care facility or upon any public place owned or under the control of the State or any of its political subdivisions to .
    .
    .
    .
    (d)The provisions of this section shall not apply to concealed carry of a handgun at a parade or funeral procession by a person with a valid permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter
    You forgot the primary part of that goes along with this.

    It shall be presumed that any rifle or gun carried on a rack in a pickup truck at a holiday parade or in a funeral procession does not violate the terms of this act.

    If a person does not own a pick up then we get back to US v Black, without RAS police cannot search. Plus if the person is not a spectator the law does not count. I haven't been to a parade in over 20 years. You seen one you have seen most, personally I don't think it is that important to spend money and waste time for one of those privilege cards.

    And again we get back to the permission thang, in an event a person can carry with permission from owner, or the person in charge of that event. That is why we can OC in a restaurant that serves alcohol without one of those privilege cards.

    Yea I know it bugs those people who spent that money but hey nobody forced them to not educate themselves first.
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  23. #23
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Gary, this discusses the procession, WW pointed out to you the provision of the cite you FAIL'D to mention about the exemption. however, the statute also does not mention, therefore, does not cover the ceremony at grave side, unless conspicuously posted by the cemetery's management, i can OC at a grave side.

    the statutes are so confusing huh Gary.

    another hint Gary: I may OC into a law enforcement facility but can't CC.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 09-24-2014 at 10:15 AM.
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  24. #24
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    Oth

    Sid,

    Personally, it looks like unless you can do as Skid suggested, you will not be able to get a NC CHP.

    NCGS 14-415.12

    § 14-415.12. Criteria to qualify for the issuance of a permit.
    (b) The sheriff shall deny a permit to an applicant who:
    (7) Is or has been discharged from the Armed Forces of the United States under conditions other than honorable.
    However...you mentioned that you have a VA CC permit? Why do you say it is no longer valid? (caveat: I know nothing about VA permits )

    § 14-415.24. Reciprocity; out-of-state handgun permits.
    (a) A valid concealed handgun permit or license issued by another state is valid in North Carolina.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    News from the Caldwell sheriffs dept

    Thank you all for your help and since you guys have been forthright about everything and examples, I decided to come back and give you the absolute latest from my sheriffs dept.

    I called them this morning and told them I made an honest mistake about the box I checked for the discharge for Armed Forces and need to change that to "Yes". The lady/deputy who took my prints and paperwork, which was the SAME woman who gave me my purchase permit 3 weeks ago, said she wanted to check with her supervisor to make sure. I told her NC law as I read it says, the sheriff MUST deny applicant if the discharge is ANYTHING but Honorable. I then told her mine was OTH and told her to change my app. She just called me back and told me her supervisor said in Oct of last year the state could no longer require a DD214 form. So I asked her do I change my app or no. She said no because there was no DISHONORABLE discharge that came back, as in when we did your purchase permit app 3 weeks ago. "You are good to go". She seemed more worried that I would lose my 90 dollars. More so than I was. I told her, I didn't care about the 90 bucks, I just didn't want the sheriffs dept. to think I was trying to pull a quick one on them. She said "do not worry, you are clear and good to go". We will now submit for the mental checks from the three surrounding institutions. Shouldn't be much more than 30 days she said although they have up to 90. Depends on how busy Raleigh is.

    Go figure huh? How is it when we look at NC gun laws I see, must deny, and they see something else. Am I looking in the wrong place?

    I guess I'll just sit and wait. Funny thing is, when I took the concealed class to get my certificate, the instructor said, in all of his 12 or so years of teaching the class, he never had anybody denied if they were already approved for the purchase permit. I thought I was going to be the first.

    Just an FYI guys.

    Lastly, you guys are also right about getting the discharge upgraded if that's what you want to do. They rarely ever do it. I put in for mine like 10 years ago. Gave history of my stupid decision back then. My education now, my career, involvement in the community and schools, background and family. All of it meant not a thing. Basically they came back and said AFTER LIKE 18 MONTHS OF WAITING, what you did then is what you did then and you got what you got for what you did. That discharge was for then not now. Thank you sir. Carry on smartly sailor.

    Have a nice night guys.

    Sid
    Last edited by cityjack; 09-24-2014 at 02:14 PM.

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