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Thread: Other than honorable discharge?

  1. #1
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    Other than honorable discharge?

    Evening all,

    First time posting here as I stumbled upon this good site while Googling the question I have for you all. I just purchased a handgun with a permit from a shop in Charlotte a couple weeks back. Caldwell county gave me the permit no problem. Took four days, not too bad. As my VA concealed permit is no longer good since I am now a resident of NC, I decided to take the class to get the certificate so I could apply for my concealed here in NC. Took the class, got my certificate and set my appointment up at the sheriffs to get fingerprinted. Upon reading the requirements it says that I can be declined if I have anything other than a Honorable discharge. 30 some odd years ago while in the navy I received an other than honorable for being young and stupid. No civilian conviction, no military conviction, just the OTH. Am I screwed now? How can they give me a purchase permit and not a concealed. I have looked and looked for the statutes, but I do not see anything.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated. I did the customary search here but get conflicting stories.

    Thanks guys.

    Sid

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    Oth

    Quote Originally Posted by cityjack View Post
    Evening all,

    First time posting here as I stumbled upon this good site while Googling the question I have for you all. I just purchased a handgun with a permit from a shop in Charlotte a couple weeks back. Caldwell county gave me the permit no problem. Took four days, not too bad. As my VA concealed permit is no longer good since I am now a resident of NC, I decided to take the class to get the certificate so I could apply for my concealed here in NC. Took the class, got my certificate and set my appointment up at the sheriffs to get fingerprinted. Upon reading the requirements it says that I can be declined if I have anything other than a Honorable discharge. 30 some odd years ago while in the navy I received an other than honorable for being young and stupid. No civilian conviction, no military conviction, just the OTH. Am I screwed now? How can they give me a purchase permit and not a concealed. I have looked and looked for the statutes, but I do not see anything.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated. I did the customary search here but get conflicting stories.

    Thanks guys.

    Sid

    How did you ever get a gun? I thought that any thing other than honorable discharge was a disqualifying factor for buying any gun.

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    Purchase permit

    Not a problem. 4 days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Birdman View Post
    How did you ever get a gun? I thought that any thing other than honorable discharge was a disqualifying factor for buying any gun.
    ATF Form 4473 prohibits on dishonorable discharge.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Form 4473?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    ATF Form 4473 prohibits on dishonorable discharge.
    Not sure how that equates to me applying for a concealed permit with an OTH sir?

    Still need help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cityjack View Post
    Not sure how that equates to me applying for a concealed permit with an OTH sir? Still need help.
    yes, but I don't have access to NC statutes. Don't search here, search for a citation to your state law.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    first, welcome to the NC sub forum and thanks for the very good question.

    since you didn't articulate the document you received from the county, i, though a leap of faith, presume you received a purchase pistol permit. that being the case, an Under Other then Honorable Discharge (UOTHD) is not considered a prohibitor for issuance of a PPP but is a state prohibitior for issuance of a Concealed handgun permit (CHP).

    therefore, you were granted your PPP which you used IAW NC statutes to purchase your firearm from the FFL, but you might save your hard earned money taking the class for your CHP as well as giving the sheriff for further monies to process the CHP since in the majority of the NC counties they are asking for your DD Form 214. NC Statute 14-415.12(b)(7) http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislat...ticle_54B.html


    suggestion, you might go to the deputy in charge of CHPs in your county and ask for a conference and discuss your CHP options such as if there is a statute of limitations for UOTHD, e.g. after 1970?

    some further related links for your reading pleasure:

    1. http://www.ncdoj.gov/getdoc/32344299...-gun-Laws.aspx
    2. http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/statutes/statutes.asp

    again welcome to the nc subform.

    ipse

    now OP, why worry about getting a CHP since you can still get PPPs to purchase firearms in the state and always remember your new state is a model OC state where you can carry the same places as those with a CHP.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    ATF Form 4473 prohibits on dishonorable discharge.
    nightmare, et al., it is not a dishonorable discharge but rather a separate category of under other than honorable discharge.

    remember, NC citizens do not go through NCIS checks as defined by ATF guidance.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 09-23-2014 at 08:00 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Oth

    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    nightmare, et al., it is not a dishonorable discharge but rather a separate category of under other than honorable discharge.

    remember, NC citizens do not go through NCIS checks as defined by ATF guidance.

    ipse

    So I guess I am SOL huh? Even 30 years ago? No CHP for me? I will contact the deputy as you guys suggest. Thank you for the links. That stinks, VA was good with it and NC says no. What does NCIS have to do with the CHP process for NC?

    Thanks guys.
    Last edited by cityjack; 09-23-2014 at 08:14 PM.

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    Ppp

    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    first, welcome to the NC sub forum and thanks for the very good question.

    since you didn't articulate the document you received from the county, i, though a leap of faith, presume you received a purchase pistol permit. that being the case, an Under Other then Honorable Discharge (UOTHD) is not considered a prohibitor for issuance of a PPP but is a state prohibitior for issuance of a Concealed handgun permit (CHP).

    therefore, you were granted your PPP which you used IAW NC statutes to purchase your firearm from the FFL, but you might save your hard earned money taking the class for your CHP as well as giving the sheriff for further monies to process the CHP since in the majority of the NC counties they are asking for your DD Form 214. NC Statute 14-415.12(b)(7) http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislat...ticle_54B.html


    suggestion, you might go to the deputy in charge of CHPs in your county and ask for a conference and discuss your CHP options such as if there is a statute of limitations for UOTHD, e.g. after 1970?

    some further related links for your reading pleasure:

    1. http://www.ncdoj.gov/getdoc/32344299...-gun-Laws.aspx
    2. http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/statutes/statutes.asp

    again welcome to the nc subform.

    ipse

    now OP, why worry about getting a CHP since you can still get PPPs to purchase firearms in the state and always remember your new state is a model OC state where you can carry the same places as those with a CHP.
    Yes it was a pistol purchase permit sir. So I still we be able to get permits though huh?

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    Class and application

    Bad for me I guess. I already took the class and placed the app with the sheriff today. I put no for the discharge question. Not meaning to deceive, I just thought it was the same question like on the purchase app. So now what happens?

  12. #12
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    Other than honorable is not a dishonorable discharge, it could be for many reasons. A dishonorable discharge results from a court martial, unless the soldier pleads guilty, it is the same as a felony. I may be off but I believe after so many years you can get a less than honorable changed to a honorable.

    Just be honest, at worst you will be out 90 dollars.
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    No sadly oth is always oth.

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    Yes, you can get your OTH discharge upgraded. There is an established procedure and you can start the process by reading http://www.military.com/benefits/rec...ge-review.html

    In your case it looks like
    "However, if the discharge was more than 15 years ago, a veteran must petition the appropriate service Board for Correction of Military Records using DoD Form 149, which is discussed in the “Correction of Military Records”
    is the route you will need to take.

    Even if you are not a member of VFW or American Legion you can ask their service assistance specialists to assist you in getting started and perhaps guiding you through the system maze.

    Good luck to you.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    thanks skid, i learn something every day, you are a wealth of outstanding information.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

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    Veterans separated administratively under other than honorable conditions may request that their discharge be reviewed for possible recharacterization, provided they file their appeal within 15 years of the date of separation.

    From the link that skid posted ... ya got 15 yrs, past that, outta luck?


    http://boards.law.af.mil/AF_DRB_CY%202014.htm

    I read through a few of the adjudicated cases ... they don't give out upgrades too often
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 09-23-2014 at 11:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    From the link that skid posted ... ya got 15 yrs, past that, outta luck?
    Actually, it merely states that past 15 years is a different form and different procedure. But still not impossible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    ..... and always remember your new state is a model OC state where you can carry the same places as those with a CHP.
    I disagree. The OP should read the statutes because there are places that you cannot OC but can CC, or you can OC w/CHP.
    Last edited by gary737; 09-24-2014 at 10:18 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Read the disqualifiers section very carefully. In many cases like this (though I am unfamiliar with your state) it is a potential disqualifier, not an automatic one. In other words, it removes the "shall issue" and turns your permit into "may issue." Include a letter with your application describing the circumstances, and your record since.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gary737 View Post
    I disagree. The OP should read the statutes because there are places that you cannot OC but can CC, or you can OC w/CHP.
    You can OC anyplace you can CC with permission from the owner or management. That includes restaurants that serve alcohol the latest supposed selling point for OC. AND the statute does NOT say you can OC, it says you can carry with a "concealed handgun permit". IMO until a court case clears this up, a person can get arrested, and then LOSE that precious privilege card.

    I have OC'd in several, I ask permission at the door and it is always given. A certain group tried very hard to take away the right for owners to decide for themselves, fortunately they failed.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 09-24-2014 at 10:40 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gary737 View Post
    I disagree. The OP should read the statutes because there are places that you cannot OC but can CC, or you can OC w/CHP.
    are you just gonna throw the grenade after you forgot to pull the pin or do you have any specifics to back up your random generalization.

    Perhaps we should file your post in the misinformation folder since you felt the need to not put any type of example so you post is truly meaningless at the moment.

    Gary, let me assist you get the ball rolling...you know you can OC in Offices of State or Federal Government but can't CC? (unless conspicuously marked of course!!)
    i have other examples too Gary where you can OC but can't CC.

    the ball is now in your court Gary...

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 09-24-2014 at 10:48 AM. Reason: hate when i stutter when i type
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  22. #22
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Read the disqualifiers section very carefully. In many cases like this (though I am unfamiliar with your state) it is a potential disqualifier, not an automatic one. In other words, it removes the "shall issue" and turns your permit into "may issue." Include a letter with your application describing the circumstances, and your record since.
    MAC, IAW NC statutes as stated in previous posting 14-415.12(b)(7) NC citizens are disqualified to receive a CHP especially tough to circumvent since the sheriffs are asking for DD Form 214.

    since the statute has no 'time frame' reference, it was one of the reasons it was recommended to chat w/his local dep in charge of his county's CHP program.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 09-24-2014 at 10:47 AM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    are you just gonna throw the grenade after you forgot to pull the pin or do you have any specifics to back up your random generalization.

    Perhaps we should file your post in the misinformation folder since you felt the need to not put any type of example so you post is truly meaningless at the moment.

    Gary, let me assist you get the ball rolling...you know you can OC in Offices of State or Federal Government but can't CC? (unless conspicuously marked of course!!)

    the ball is now in your court Gary...

    ipse
    § 14-277.2. Weapons at parades, etc., prohibited.
    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person participating in, affiliated with, or present as a spectator at any parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration upon any private health care facility or upon any public place owned or under the control of the State or any of its political subdivisions to .
    .
    .
    .
    (d)The provisions of this section shall not apply to concealed carry of a handgun at a parade or funeral procession by a person with a valid permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter





    I didn't want any "thread drift" from the original discussion. All I was suggesting was for the OP to read the statutes. Nothing more.
    Last edited by gary737; 09-24-2014 at 11:04 AM.

  24. #24
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gary737 View Post
    § 14-277.2. Weapons at parades, etc., prohibited.
    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person participating in, affiliated with, or present as a spectator at any parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration upon any private health care facility or upon any public place owned or under the control of the State or any of its political subdivisions to .
    .
    .
    .
    (d)The provisions of this section shall not apply to concealed carry of a handgun at a parade or funeral procession by a person with a valid permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter
    You forgot the primary part of that goes along with this.

    It shall be presumed that any rifle or gun carried on a rack in a pickup truck at a holiday parade or in a funeral procession does not violate the terms of this act.

    If a person does not own a pick up then we get back to US v Black, without RAS police cannot search. Plus if the person is not a spectator the law does not count. I haven't been to a parade in over 20 years. You seen one you have seen most, personally I don't think it is that important to spend money and waste time for one of those privilege cards.

    And again we get back to the permission thang, in an event a person can carry with permission from owner, or the person in charge of that event. That is why we can OC in a restaurant that serves alcohol without one of those privilege cards.

    Yea I know it bugs those people who spent that money but hey nobody forced them to not educate themselves first.
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  25. #25
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Gary, this discusses the procession, WW pointed out to you the provision of the cite you FAIL'D to mention about the exemption. however, the statute also does not mention, therefore, does not cover the ceremony at grave side, unless conspicuously posted by the cemetery's management, i can OC at a grave side.

    the statutes are so confusing huh Gary.

    another hint Gary: I may OC into a law enforcement facility but can't CC.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 09-24-2014 at 11:15 AM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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