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.460 Rowland
- Thread starter The Truth
- Start date
Ignore the spammer after the initial report/post notifying others that the message has been sent.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?124527-Spam-Attack&p=2099246#post2099246
Copy that.
In other news, I got my gunbroker account activated today, so I'll be ordering my Emperor Scorpion today! Any ideas on a an FFL in town that won't charge me an arm and a leg to transfer the weapon? Maybe Dominion Shooting Range?
EDIT: I went with Dominion. They claimed to have the cheapest transfer pricing around, which seems reasonable. Their rate is $28. Not too bad.
In other news, I got my gunbroker account activated today, so I'll be ordering my Emperor Scorpion today! Any ideas on a an FFL in town that won't charge me an arm and a leg to transfer the weapon? Maybe Dominion Shooting Range?
EDIT: I went with Dominion. They claimed to have the cheapest transfer pricing around, which seems reasonable. Their rate is $28. Not too bad.
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bunnspecial
Regular Member
All else being equal, I'd tend toward the 45 Win Mag over the 460 Rowland. They're the same general idea, although the 45 Win Mag actually increases case capacity over standard 45ACP. 45 Win Mag gives similar velocities to 460 Rowland with the same weight bullets at lower pressures. The "boutique" companies like Underwood can get 200fps more out of 230gr JHP with the Win Mag than they can with the Rowland
http://www.underwoodammo.com/45winchestermagnum250grainxtpjacketedhollowpointboxof50.aspx
http://www.underwoodammo.com/460Rowland230graingdjacketedhollowpointboxof20.aspx
Of course, one big advantage to the Rowland is that it can fit in a "standard" 1911 sized frame. A friend of mine has a Lar Grizzly in 45 Win Mag, and while it is a 1911 design, it's also significantly larger and heavier that your typical Government-model 1911.
Of course, YMMV, but if all out performance is your goal within the reference frame of 45 caliber bottom-feeding pistols, I think that 45 Win Mag does deserve a fair appraisal.
And, along those same lines, if you're not married to bottom feeders, 460 S&W Magnum wipes the floor
http://www.underwoodammo.com/460sandwmagnum240grainxtpjacketedhollowpointboxof20.aspx
454 Casull isn't so bad either
http://www.underwoodammo.com/454casull240grainxtpjacketedhollowpointboxof20.aspx
Nor is a good, hot loaded("Ruger load") 45 Colt
http://www.underwoodammo.com/45coltlongcoltp250grainxtpjacketedhollowpointboxof50.aspx
I never fail to light up the range with 26gr w296 under a 250gr XTP out of my Blackhawk
http://www.underwoodammo.com/45winchestermagnum250grainxtpjacketedhollowpointboxof50.aspx
http://www.underwoodammo.com/460Rowland230graingdjacketedhollowpointboxof20.aspx
Of course, one big advantage to the Rowland is that it can fit in a "standard" 1911 sized frame. A friend of mine has a Lar Grizzly in 45 Win Mag, and while it is a 1911 design, it's also significantly larger and heavier that your typical Government-model 1911.
Of course, YMMV, but if all out performance is your goal within the reference frame of 45 caliber bottom-feeding pistols, I think that 45 Win Mag does deserve a fair appraisal.
And, along those same lines, if you're not married to bottom feeders, 460 S&W Magnum wipes the floor
http://www.underwoodammo.com/460sandwmagnum240grainxtpjacketedhollowpointboxof20.aspx
454 Casull isn't so bad either
http://www.underwoodammo.com/454casull240grainxtpjacketedhollowpointboxof20.aspx
Nor is a good, hot loaded("Ruger load") 45 Colt
http://www.underwoodammo.com/45coltlongcoltp250grainxtpjacketedhollowpointboxof50.aspx
I never fail to light up the range with 26gr w296 under a 250gr XTP out of my Blackhawk
1245A Defender
Regular Member
Really????
its too late to advise Truth on cartridge options,,, his mind is engraved in stone now..
he has his ammo'''s , and his conversion barrel,,,
He is ordering his 1911 of choice as we type...
he spent time debating what it might be / what he wants / what he can get ,,
for the last month...
He wants to make a big spash with his bigest badest boldest most bitchen FUCKlNG GUN EVER!!!
but you know, and I know, that if you shoot a guy Anywhere,
he wont know if its a .460 roland, or just a 45 acp...
its too late to advise Truth on cartridge options,,, his mind is engraved in stone now..
he has his ammo'''s , and his conversion barrel,,,
He is ordering his 1911 of choice as we type...
he spent time debating what it might be / what he wants / what he can get ,,
for the last month...
He wants to make a big spash with his bigest badest boldest most bitchen FUCKlNG GUN EVER!!!
but you know, and I know, that if you shoot a guy Anywhere,
he wont know if its a .460 roland, or just a 45 acp...
Yer dayum right bwah!
I looked into the WinMag, but it seemed too scarce and too expensive to get into. Plus the Rowland conversion is so simple and utilizes a 1911 full size frame.
I'm going to completely disagree with you there...
.45 ACP +p 185gr - 1,200FPS / 592FPE
.460 Rowland 185gr - 1,575FPS / 1,000FPE
That's the difference between a big hole in a BG's head and half his head being blown off. Or if you prefer to get a written statement from the BG about which one hurt more, it's the difference between a big hole through his lower leg or having the bottom half of his leg put back together with prosthetics. Approaching twice the energy. The biggest difference is with bigger bullets though. A 255gr Hardcast from a Rowland is in a different universe than a 255gr .45 ACP.
I'm not hunting BG's with it anyway.
1245A Defender
Regular Member
Well,,,
I know you have planned and spent..
I look for the range report.
i DONT WANT YOU TO POINT YOUR 460 ROLAND at me
I dont want to point ANY of my guns at you!!
You are just starting out,,, with a huge big deal gun!
I am just slowing down..
You did good in the gun carry during hunting in Virginia,, I applaud your efforts... We be friends!
I know you have planned and spent..
I look for the range report.
i DONT WANT YOU TO POINT YOUR 460 ROLAND at me
I dont want to point ANY of my guns at you!!
You are just starting out,,, with a huge big deal gun!
I am just slowing down..
You did good in the gun carry during hunting in Virginia,, I applaud your efforts... We be friends!
Haha! Thank you, sir! Made me laugh too.
I'm counting down the days until my piece shows up so I can report back! I still need a chrono though...
Firearms Iinstuctor
Regular Member
Midway has several pages of chronos for sale
a search shows many for under 100 dollars
a search shows many for under 100 dollars
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Alright boys, IT HAS ARRIVED!
Went and picked up the Emperor Scorpion today from my FFL dealer. Background check went through almost instantly - no 6 days of researching this time! WOOHOO! Kinda sucked that Dominion wouldn't take my hunting license as a 2nd form of ID. Had to have the missus email me a picture of my SS Administration paperwork after desperately trying to think of a solution. They said the Feds didn't like the hunting license and would reprimand them in the case of an audit. Dance's didn't have a problem with it, but I bought the license from them.
Got home like a kid on Christmas morning and installed the Rowland conversion. The 24# recoil spring was definitely not as easy as the guys on YouTube make it look, but not quite as tough as I thought it would be. The whole conversion took me about 25 minutes after scratching my head for a while on the recoil spring. Firing pin spring was pretty easy. The pistol hand cycles pretty damn smoothly. I planned on picking up some Wilson Combat mags, but unless the stock ones just suck, I'll stick with em for the extra bullet. (WC = 7 cap, Sig = 8 cap.)
The pistol is covered in a thin film of heavy grease and I need to clean it pretty extensively. I'll leave the grease on the inside and on contact parts, but it gives the pistol a darkish hue on the exterior. The finish is amazing! It's Flat Dark Earth, but it appears almost bronze. I think it'll look more Earth-y after I clean it really well, but honestly it is BEAUTIFUL. The trigger is amazing. I love the feel of the SA only, me being used to my SA/DA P229.
I really don't see an application for this pistol in terms of daily carry...maybe a BBQ gun for OC get togethers. It is much lighter than my P229. Surprisingly so, actually, and it feels much better in my holster weight and bulk-wise. Who knows, maybe I'll carry it from time to time, but it's pretty much just my woods gun. For carry and home defense I'm using the 230gr BJHP from Underwood. For woods carry I'll be going with the 255gr HCFN also from Underwood. I plan on testing it extensively. I will probably invest in a chronograph and will also look into some kind of ballistics gel too, but the real test will be when firearm deer season starts.
Now on to my next project...a Glock 10mm with a 9x25 Dillon conversion barrel
Went and picked up the Emperor Scorpion today from my FFL dealer. Background check went through almost instantly - no 6 days of researching this time! WOOHOO! Kinda sucked that Dominion wouldn't take my hunting license as a 2nd form of ID. Had to have the missus email me a picture of my SS Administration paperwork after desperately trying to think of a solution. They said the Feds didn't like the hunting license and would reprimand them in the case of an audit. Dance's didn't have a problem with it, but I bought the license from them.
Got home like a kid on Christmas morning and installed the Rowland conversion. The 24# recoil spring was definitely not as easy as the guys on YouTube make it look, but not quite as tough as I thought it would be. The whole conversion took me about 25 minutes after scratching my head for a while on the recoil spring. Firing pin spring was pretty easy. The pistol hand cycles pretty damn smoothly. I planned on picking up some Wilson Combat mags, but unless the stock ones just suck, I'll stick with em for the extra bullet. (WC = 7 cap, Sig = 8 cap.)
The pistol is covered in a thin film of heavy grease and I need to clean it pretty extensively. I'll leave the grease on the inside and on contact parts, but it gives the pistol a darkish hue on the exterior. The finish is amazing! It's Flat Dark Earth, but it appears almost bronze. I think it'll look more Earth-y after I clean it really well, but honestly it is BEAUTIFUL. The trigger is amazing. I love the feel of the SA only, me being used to my SA/DA P229.
I really don't see an application for this pistol in terms of daily carry...maybe a BBQ gun for OC get togethers. It is much lighter than my P229. Surprisingly so, actually, and it feels much better in my holster weight and bulk-wise. Who knows, maybe I'll carry it from time to time, but it's pretty much just my woods gun. For carry and home defense I'm using the 230gr BJHP from Underwood. For woods carry I'll be going with the 255gr HCFN also from Underwood. I plan on testing it extensively. I will probably invest in a chronograph and will also look into some kind of ballistics gel too, but the real test will be when firearm deer season starts.
Now on to my next project...a Glock 10mm with a 9x25 Dillon conversion barrel
So, I've been sitting here playing with this beautiful weapon, totally unloaded with the mag on the table of course, and I do have a couple minor dislikes so far. A couple dislikes of the 1911 design, and a Rowland thing too.
First, in regards to the Rowland design, I wasn't aware of it before but I like to rack the slide using the front of the pistol overhand and push forward on the frame at the same time instead of just pulling the slide behind the breach near the hammer. The compensator combined with the 24# recoil spring has forced me to find a spot further back on the pistol to rack from, and in the process I've gotten a couple brutal pinches because I don't like just letting the slide slam forward, I like to guide it - unless it's loaded.
One aspect of the Sig 1911 that I am finding weird so far is that the 3 dots making up the sight picture do not line up perfectly when I make a straight line across the top of the sights. It's more of an obtuse triangle with the front sight on top. This will be more clear when I'm actually shooting in daylight.
For the record, I pretty much refused to buy a pistol with a grip safety or a trigger safety because I simply don't believe in them and don't need them. If I ever had to shoot with my hand in an odd position, the gun would be worthless. The Sig 1911 is no different, but that's just reality nowadays. Nothing I can do about it, but my opinion is affirmed. I absolutely HATE the palm safety. Why they are a standard feature on these weapons is beyond me. They are horrible. If there was a 1911 available without one, I'd consider it. Ugh. So stupid. It's honestly more annoying than I thought it would be.
Before I installed the conversion, the slide automatically locked back without touching the locking lever when I would rack the slide back. This is another feature that had me scratching my head, but maybe it's because it's a brand new gun. I'm not sure. Incredibly annoying. Luckily it doesn't do it anymore with the conversion.
Break down of the weapon is very annoying. Having to remove the recoil spring to remove the slide SUCKS. I want to clean this thing so badly, but messing with the recoil spring just to break it down doesn't sound like fun to me.
POSITIVES:
The grips are freakin' awesome. The texture on the front strap is nasty aggressive. The whole grip feels like it's naturally velcro'd in place in your hand. It's just great!
Very well built. Crisp mechanics. Trigger is wonderful.
First, in regards to the Rowland design, I wasn't aware of it before but I like to rack the slide using the front of the pistol overhand and push forward on the frame at the same time instead of just pulling the slide behind the breach near the hammer. The compensator combined with the 24# recoil spring has forced me to find a spot further back on the pistol to rack from, and in the process I've gotten a couple brutal pinches because I don't like just letting the slide slam forward, I like to guide it - unless it's loaded.
One aspect of the Sig 1911 that I am finding weird so far is that the 3 dots making up the sight picture do not line up perfectly when I make a straight line across the top of the sights. It's more of an obtuse triangle with the front sight on top. This will be more clear when I'm actually shooting in daylight.
For the record, I pretty much refused to buy a pistol with a grip safety or a trigger safety because I simply don't believe in them and don't need them. If I ever had to shoot with my hand in an odd position, the gun would be worthless. The Sig 1911 is no different, but that's just reality nowadays. Nothing I can do about it, but my opinion is affirmed. I absolutely HATE the palm safety. Why they are a standard feature on these weapons is beyond me. They are horrible. If there was a 1911 available without one, I'd consider it. Ugh. So stupid. It's honestly more annoying than I thought it would be.
Before I installed the conversion, the slide automatically locked back without touching the locking lever when I would rack the slide back. This is another feature that had me scratching my head, but maybe it's because it's a brand new gun. I'm not sure. Incredibly annoying. Luckily it doesn't do it anymore with the conversion.
Break down of the weapon is very annoying. Having to remove the recoil spring to remove the slide SUCKS. I want to clean this thing so badly, but messing with the recoil spring just to break it down doesn't sound like fun to me.
POSITIVES:
The grips are freakin' awesome. The texture on the front strap is nasty aggressive. The whole grip feels like it's naturally velcro'd in place in your hand. It's just great!
Very well built. Crisp mechanics. Trigger is wonderful.
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Marco
Regular Member
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...commander-45-acp-8-round?cm_vc=ProductFinding
All the Wilson mags I have use for FS 1911 are 8rds or >.
Check out the above link. If you like shoot me a pm.
I have 3 that are LIKE NEW, they will go unused. I run a mag well on all my 1911's and prefer a longer bases padded.
You are discovering the 1911 platform isn't for everyone.
You can have the grip safety pinned (see a qualified gunsmith (Rick over @ TTI) If you don't have the know how).
But by doing so many will say that gun is no longer suitable for a edc, just games and hunting.
All the Wilson mags I have use for FS 1911 are 8rds or >.
Check out the above link. If you like shoot me a pm.
I have 3 that are LIKE NEW, they will go unused. I run a mag well on all my 1911's and prefer a longer bases padded.
You are discovering the 1911 platform isn't for everyone.
You can have the grip safety pinned (see a qualified gunsmith (Rick over @ TTI) If you don't have the know how).
But by doing so many will say that gun is no longer suitable for a edc, just games and hunting.
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deepdiver
Campaign Veteran
I have always loved the 1911 generally but hated the grip safety too. Then my first carry gun was an XD45 compact service as I liked everything about it except the grip safety and it has the 1911 grip angle. Best option for what I could afford.
Within 500 rounds and a month of carry I got used to the grip safety and actually came to like the benefit and no longer even noticed it. And it is more noticable to me than the more nicely contoured ones on better 1911s.
Pre-XD and 1911s I too used the front of the slide. Now I always use the rear unless press checking. Just became a habit.
Interested to hear range report on sights. Friend has Scorpion and it's sighht alignment is identical to Springfield tritium sights which are identical to my TruGlo sights in alignment.
I am very excited for the range report. Sig Scorpion will likely be my next 1911 unless I find some sweet deal on something else as I too love it, although not for a conversion. But after the AR10 build and a Scorpion, you may have convinced me to try the Rowland.
Made it to the range today. I was nothing short of impressed. I put about 76 rounds through it. The first 5 shots failed to eject properly. After racking the slide a bunch, shot 6 and all 70 subsequent shots cycled perfectly, even with the stock Sig mags. Zero problems after only about a half mag break in for the recoil spring made me pretty happy. Recoil was strong but very easily manageable by anyone who enjoys some kick. There is barely any muzzle flip, unlike my P229 .40.
Grouping was really solid. Again, it took about a magazine to get used to longer range shots, but I was able to bullseye at 25, 40, and 60 feet. 6" or so group at 60 feet with 255gr HCFN, nice tight 4" group at 40 feet with 255gr HCFN, and I made 3 holes with 8 bullets at 25 feet with the 230gr BJHP. I did all this on a 5 circle sighting target putting 2 mags of .40 through one of the circles, the rest .460R. Range officer walked by just as I was reeling in my target and said, "You're a dangerous man!" I let him shoot a bullet for the compliment, and he loved it. I'll try to post pics of the individual circles later.
I saved all the brass I could find (70 pieces or so). The finish on the pistol is a little tough to keep clean, but I gave it a good once over with Hoppe's when I got home. Compensator is losing its finish already due to heat near the first top hole. Also, this gun is addictive! I only planned on shooting a couple magazines and I just couldn't stop! Can't wait to get outdoors and try some long range shots to see if I truly can reach out to 100+ yards. I'm also pretty excited about taking my first Virginia deer with it too!
Got an el cheap-o Blackhawk holster and a soft case for it. I'll probably carry it often after falling in love with it today.
Grouping was really solid. Again, it took about a magazine to get used to longer range shots, but I was able to bullseye at 25, 40, and 60 feet. 6" or so group at 60 feet with 255gr HCFN, nice tight 4" group at 40 feet with 255gr HCFN, and I made 3 holes with 8 bullets at 25 feet with the 230gr BJHP. I did all this on a 5 circle sighting target putting 2 mags of .40 through one of the circles, the rest .460R. Range officer walked by just as I was reeling in my target and said, "You're a dangerous man!" I let him shoot a bullet for the compliment, and he loved it. I'll try to post pics of the individual circles later.
I saved all the brass I could find (70 pieces or so). The finish on the pistol is a little tough to keep clean, but I gave it a good once over with Hoppe's when I got home. Compensator is losing its finish already due to heat near the first top hole. Also, this gun is addictive! I only planned on shooting a couple magazines and I just couldn't stop! Can't wait to get outdoors and try some long range shots to see if I truly can reach out to 100+ yards. I'm also pretty excited about taking my first Virginia deer with it too!
Got an el cheap-o Blackhawk holster and a soft case for it. I'll probably carry it often after falling in love with it today.
I still love Hoppe's #9 - as a cologne - it has certain aphrodisiac qualities
My new standard cleaner and gun oil comes from Liberty Lube. Follow up cleanings get easier. Oil is fantastic.
http://www.libertygunlube.com/application-instructions/
I still love Hoppe's #9 - as a cologne - it has certain aphrodisiac qualities
My new standard cleaner and gun oil comes from Liberty Lube. Follow up cleanings get easier. Oil is fantastic.
http://www.libertygunlube.com/application-instructions/
Hoppe's will always have a place in my heart...I grew up with that aroma when I'd clean my deer rifle with my Dad. Very nostalgic!
I'll check out Liberty Lubes though!
All right guys, I've been doing some online shopping for reloading supplies and comparing those numbers to buying factory loaded ammo. Here's what I've come up with so far:
230gr Hornady HAP bullets - 1,500rds for $297.00
Starline reloading brass - 1,500rds for $450.00
4# Hodgdon Longshot powder - 2,000-ish rds $84
Federal LP primers - 2,000rds for $65
$896 just for the components to make 1,500 rounds of .460R.
Georgia Arms sells .460R ammo in bulk at $830 for 1,000 rounds.
I'm really trying to justify investing in handloading. I'm pretty sure my Dad has an old handloading kit and a few die sets that I could probably use since it's been in his attic unopened in the original box since about 1979.
Advice?
230gr Hornady HAP bullets - 1,500rds for $297.00
Starline reloading brass - 1,500rds for $450.00
4# Hodgdon Longshot powder - 2,000-ish rds $84
Federal LP primers - 2,000rds for $65
$896 just for the components to make 1,500 rounds of .460R.
Georgia Arms sells .460R ammo in bulk at $830 for 1,000 rounds.
I'm really trying to justify investing in handloading. I'm pretty sure my Dad has an old handloading kit and a few die sets that I could probably use since it's been in his attic unopened in the original box since about 1979.
Advice?
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