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Thread: Open Carry Argument

  1. #1
    Regular Member Robert318's Avatar
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    Open Carry Argument

    Deleted due to drama from people that dont know what actual copyright infringement of valuable for profit writings and qouting someones elses opinion. Note: we quote others writings/work on here all the time but apparently that's different from me qouting from an outside not for profit blog source. Oh wait I might need to delete my signature too since I qouted someone elses work

    --Moderator edited to Fair Use Quote--
    Last edited by Robert318; 09-24-2014 at 11:47 PM. Reason: Nightmares hurt feelings
    Stay safe and God bless.

    Everyone will hate you because of me.
    But not a hair of your head will perish.
    Stand firm, and you will win life.
    (Luke 21:17-19 NIV)

    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

    "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them.",
    "No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms."Thomas Jefferson

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    No copyright?
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Robert318's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    No copyright?
    no but thats why I posted the source.
    Stay safe and God bless.

    Everyone will hate you because of me.
    But not a hair of your head will perish.
    Stand firm, and you will win life.
    (Luke 21:17-19 NIV)

    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

    "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them.",
    "No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms."Thomas Jefferson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert318 View Post
    no but thats why I posted the source.
    There is ALWAYS a copyright.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Robert318's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    There is ALWAYS a copyright.
    not necessarily, If I write my opinion and share there is no copyright and this was not from a media source that copyrights all their articles it was from a blog from an unknown author. Not to mention when something is copyrighted it has a notification or mark indicating that.

    So with tgat said are you tge copyright police? And are you the original author? Something tells me your just looking for drama.
    Stay safe and God bless.

    Everyone will hate you because of me.
    But not a hair of your head will perish.
    Stand firm, and you will win life.
    (Luke 21:17-19 NIV)

    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

    "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them.",
    "No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms."Thomas Jefferson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert318 View Post
    not necessarily, If I write my opinion and share there is no copyright and this was not from a media source that copyrights all their articles it was from a blog from an unknown author. Not to mention when something is copyrighted it has a notification or mark indicating that. So with tgat said are you tge copyright police? And are you the original author? Something tells me your just looking for drama.
    Some of us have interests, life and expertise beyond gun carry.

    http://www.newmediarights.org/guide/...right_act_dmca

    http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/dmca.pdf
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member Robert318's Avatar
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    So out of what I posted what you picked up on was copyright? So mr copyright expert what about qouting, your reproducing what I said. I wrote it and didnt tell you you could duplicate it!

    Some have other interest, you mean like yours of being an arse?! If you dont like what I posted then move on!

    I was merely trying to share a veiw point and have no interest in arguing over trivial bs brought up by someone trying to incite drama or strife!
    Stay safe and God bless.

    Everyone will hate you because of me.
    But not a hair of your head will perish.
    Stand firm, and you will win life.
    (Luke 21:17-19 NIV)

    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

    "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them.",
    "No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms."Thomas Jefferson

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    Copyright/citation issues aside, this is really a well thought-out posting. And it outlines some of the reasons why I do both OC and CC

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    Regular Member Glock 1st fan's Avatar
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    Many have other things outside of firearms is a truth. I love teaching as I feel its very important to provide accurate information. Because there are bad instructors it motivated me to become one and help people learn accurately. I have interest in cruises and many more things.

    now with the interest aside im astounded how people nit pick the silliest things. People come here to learn from an unbiased point of view and many times never return because of bashing. There are four things that are truth in oklahoma. They are.

    1. Its legal to carry handgun openly with a permit.
    2. Its legal to conceal a handgun with. Permit.
    3. Its legal to not carry one at all
    4. The 2nd amendment guarantees the right to bare arms.

    We need to be more open to others opinions and not run people off the forum because many people only have the internet to turn to for opinions (though they should always refer to the sda first) and if they lose their only connection to advice it will slow down open carry alltogether as many will be alienated by the nonsense.

  10. #10
    Regular Member kinggabby's Avatar
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    Sometimes guns owners do more harm to hurt our rights that antis . With the attitude we display to each other. I have no need for an argument when it comes to open carry. Am I allowed to with my permit? Yes . Am I where I am allowed to be? Yes . Then Argument is over. Now if asked nicely I will gladly tell why I do. I don't OC to make a statement other that I am not an easy target .

  11. #11
    Regular Member Robert318's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock 1st fan View Post
    Many have other things outside of firearms is a truth. I love teaching as I feel its very important to provide accurate information. Because there are bad instructors it motivated me to become one and help people learn accurately. I have interest in cruises and many more things.

    now with the interest aside im astounded how people nit pick the silliest things. People come here to learn from an unbiased point of view and many times never return because of bashing. There are four things that are truth in oklahoma. They are.

    1. Its legal to carry handgun openly with a permit.
    2. Its legal to conceal a handgun with. Permit.
    3. Its legal to not carry one at all
    4. The 2nd amendment guarantees the right to bare arms.

    We need to be more open to others opinions and not run people off the forum because many people only have the internet to turn to for opinions (though they should always refer to the sda first) and if they lose their only connection to advice it will slow down open carry alltogether as many will be alienated by the nonsense.
    I agree and appreciate your input.
    Stay safe and God bless.

    Everyone will hate you because of me.
    But not a hair of your head will perish.
    Stand firm, and you will win life.
    (Luke 21:17-19 NIV)

    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

    "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them.",
    "No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms."Thomas Jefferson

  12. #12
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Yeah, Nightmare! Stay out of Oklahoma!
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

    μολὼν λαβέ

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Regular Member okiephlyer's Avatar
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    OK. I came to this party a little late. In a nutshell, what was the article, or whatever, on an open carry argument.

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    Regular Member Robert318's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okiephlyer View Post
    OK. I came to this party a little late. In a nutshell, what was the article, or whatever, on an open carry argument.
    It was a qoute countering some of the main arguments that the anti open carry crowd use for their reasoning against open carry that I got from another blog site. But nightmare apparently got his feelings hurt and starting whining about copyright. Then the mediator butchered my qoute to practically nothing. The original post was over 4 years old and no longer on the original site for any link to do anyone any good, so essentially my qoute was trashed, so I just deleted it but I can't delete the whole post so it remains.

    But I will try to hit some of the highlights from my own writing that paralells the qoute only its not as in depth as the original one. Keep in mind I was writing it talking to a guy that was basically talking against open carry.

    open carry vs concealed

    Oh the notorious element of surprise. The element of surprise is soley an offensive action not a defensive one. No tactical training ever teaches someone to hide or hide your ability to act defensively as a defensive action its an offensive one. The element of surprise will most likely force your hand to use force not prevent or stop it.

    A gun grab, cite one case of an actual gun grab of an arm civilians gun. You can't because it is a fictitious impractical argument by the anti-open carry crowd. Yes gun grabs happen to armed persons in uniform, but as a result of the perp from trying to evade arrest not just because its carried in the open.

    Again a say cite one actual case of an armed citizen being the first one targeted during a convenience store robbery or any other robbery for that matter. Even the most ignorant criminals have a self preservation mentality and allmost always have some kind of rudimentary plan and unless the place has armed guards, they aren't planning on there being armed civilians, therefore when and if they see an armed citizens they have to rethink their plan.

    Here is a scenario for you to ponder. Say you and you loved ones are walking in the park when two shady gangster looking teenagers appear walking towards you. Do you draw your weapon for suspicion they may rob you instead of them just walking to church, of course not, that would make you the criminal. Or do you wait until one of them has a knife to your loved ones throat then draw if you think your faster or do you comply, then most likely loosing your firearm along with your wallet giving the bad guy a good laugh with his friends how you brought a gun to a knife fight and lost? Lets say you chose to draw and you are successful at stopping them, now your a victim because you have to live with the fact you killed someone instead of deterring the crime by showing your ability to meet force with force beforehand? But thats not practical?

    You say you carry for practical personal defense yet your justification for concealment are both impractical and fallacious.

    Im not trying to bash anyone for choosing to conceal, I carry both open and concealed at times, but I can't stand it when people try to justify and convince others to do the same based on fictitious impractical information put out by people that live in a hollywood movie instead of reality.
    Stay safe and God bless.

    Everyone will hate you because of me.
    But not a hair of your head will perish.
    Stand firm, and you will win life.
    (Luke 21:17-19 NIV)

    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

    "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them.",
    "No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms."Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    CCers are doing it wrong. You've gotta wear an empty OC holster while CCing to REALLY bait them in.
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

    μολὼν λαβέ

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Direct link to existing copy of the post:

    http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-...-argument.html

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    Regular Member Robert318's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackrockblc View Post
    Direct link to existing copy of the post:

    http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-...-argument.html
    Thank you, I don't know how you found that, I looked and looked and even did the advanced search and kept coming up with nothing so I figured it had been deleted.
    Stay safe and God bless.

    Everyone will hate you because of me.
    But not a hair of your head will perish.
    Stand firm, and you will win life.
    (Luke 21:17-19 NIV)

    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

    "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them.",
    "No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms."Thomas Jefferson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert318 View Post
    Thank you, I don't know how you found that, I looked and looked and even did the advanced search and kept coming up with nothing so I figured it had been deleted.
    Google-fu. I knew the site it was on (usacarry.com), and the title of the article. After that, the search term is put thusly:

    Open Carry Argument site:usacarry.com
    This searches for "Open Carry Argument", but only in the site you give it (usacarry.com, in this case)

  19. #19
    Regular Member Robert318's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackrockblc View Post
    Google-fu. I knew the site it was on (usacarry.com), and the title of the article. After that, the search term is put thusly:



    This searches for "Open Carry Argument", but only in the site you give it (usacarry.com, in this case)
    lol whats the fu in that google-fu? Cool deal, I just went back to the site and searched using the sites tool but it keep showing no results and even manually searched the forums looking for the date and and title and still couldnt find it, but I didnt try google. Thanks again.
    Stay safe and God bless.

    Everyone will hate you because of me.
    But not a hair of your head will perish.
    Stand firm, and you will win life.
    (Luke 21:17-19 NIV)

    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

    "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them.",
    "No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms."Thomas Jefferson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert318 View Post
    lol whats the fu in that google-fu?
    Google-fu = fighting for search results
    Kung-fu = fighting in a B action flick


  21. #21
    Regular Member Robert318's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackrockblc View Post
    Google-fu = fighting for search results
    Kung-fu = fighting in a B action flick

    lol😀
    Stay safe and God bless.

    Everyone will hate you because of me.
    But not a hair of your head will perish.
    Stand firm, and you will win life.
    (Luke 21:17-19 NIV)

    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

    "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them.",
    "No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms."Thomas Jefferson

  22. #22
    Regular Member okiephlyer's Avatar
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    Thanks. I've seen and heard that argument a lot, mainly from the self-righteous CC only crowd. I am NOT bashing all of the CC only crowd, just those that are so self-righteous about it. Sometimes people that should be on your side are really some of your worst enemies. I primarily OC, but I also CC, and sometimes I actually don't carry at all. While this is right for me, I will never tell anyone what is right for them. Each person has to make up their own mind, using whatever reasons they want to use, and that is something that I fully support.

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    Quote Originally Posted by okiephlyer View Post
    Thanks. I've seen and heard that argument a lot, mainly from the self-righteous CC only crowd. I am NOT bashing all of the CC only crowd, just those that are so self-righteous about it. Sometimes people that should be on your side are really some of your worst enemies. I primarily OC, but I also CC, and sometimes I actually don't carry at all. While this is right for me, I will never tell anyone what is right for them. Each person has to make up their own mind, using whatever reasons they want to use, and that is something that I fully support.
    Pretty much my feelings exactly. Though I see zealots on both sides of this particular argument, I find myself somewhere in the middle. In fact, I HAVE to conceal sometimes, if I'm going to carry - for example, I cannot open carry on school grounds, but I can concealed carry.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Robert318's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okiephlyer View Post
    Thanks. I've seen and heard that argument a lot, mainly from the self-righteous CC only crowd. I am NOT bashing all of the CC only crowd, just those that are so self-righteous about it. Sometimes people that should be on your side are really some of your worst enemies. I primarily OC, but I also CC, and sometimes I actually don't carry at all. While this is right for me, I will never tell anyone what is right for them. Each person has to make up their own mind, using whatever reasons they want to use, and that is something that I fully support.
    I have heard that a lot too and feel pretty much the same. That is why I wanted to share this, so those that also feel the same would have another perspective in thier tool box so to speak for the hard nose cc only crowd. And also maybe make those that are that way, maybe stir their minds a little and rethink their one sided cc only mentality.

    I fully support the freedom of choice to cc, oc, or even no carry. But I dont support those that think their way is the only way and try to force or manipulate others to their one sided cc only mentality instead of respecting freedom of choice for others to protect themselves and their loved ones how they see or feel is necessary to protect them effectively, provided of course they arent hurting innocent people in the process and hurt feelings arent the hurt that Im talking about, thats not hard to do sometimes because some people take offense at almost anything these days.
    Last edited by Robert318; 09-27-2014 at 02:19 PM. Reason: typos
    Stay safe and God bless.

    Everyone will hate you because of me.
    But not a hair of your head will perish.
    Stand firm, and you will win life.
    (Luke 21:17-19 NIV)

    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

    "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them.",
    "No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms."Thomas Jefferson

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