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Thread: the practice of charging with murder those who shoot cops during no knock raids

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    Question the practice of charging with murder those who shoot cops during no knock raids

    How can cops and prosecutors, with a straight face, fault people who shoot cops invading their home in the middle of the night, unannounced? It's as if they expect these people to have paranormal abilities (either mental telepathy, or remote sensing, or something of that nature).

    (1) When it's dark, and someone barges into your house, how are you supposed to know it's a cop?

    (2) How is the charging of such people not a travesty?

    (3) How can the cops and prosecutors who do something so ridiculous expect the public to have any respect for them?

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    It's truly insane the double standard. A Grand Jury filed no indictments on the cops that murdered John Crawford III at Wal-Mart (video evidence backs up my claim of murder), yet people are charged in TEXAS, where castle doctrine is the word of God, for defending their property at night during no knock "raids." It makes absolutely no sense to me, and no one seems to care or want to do anything about it.

    My .40 S&W and (2) spare mags are ALWAYS within arm's reach of me, all day, every day, and I've got plenty of other goodies in the other room in my "area of cover," should I need more power to finish the job. I feel bad for the poor souls who try to enter MY threshold without properly identifying themselves, especially at night. I know of absolutely NO ONE who would try to enter my home unannounced, ever. Best believe it'd be a big mistake, no matter who it is.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by state hater View Post
    How can cops and prosecutors, with a straight face, fault people who shoot cops invading their home in the middle of the night, unannounced? It's as if they expect these people to have paranormal abilities (either mental telepathy, or remote sensing, or something of that nature).

    (1) When it's dark, and someone barges into your house, how are you supposed to know it's a cop?

    (2) How is the charging of such people not a travesty?

    (3) How can the cops and prosecutors who do something so ridiculous expect the public to have any respect for them?
    Dont need telepathy... Need ears. When they yell POLICE... It means its cops...
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    According to numerous accounts, nothing of the sort is yelled. Are they all lying?

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Now why would they yell 'Police' on a no knock warrant, that defeats the whole purpose of the surprise. I doubt that once the doors are busting in and stun grenades are going off they can hear anything. Complete hogwash!

    Plus let's not forget that anybody can yell police...
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    Regular Member J_dazzle23's Avatar
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    I am in no way defending the no knock police warrant, but I just had a thought. I've had to draw my weapon on someone in my house at night (thankfully, not a bad guy, just a horrible misunderstanding)....and the sole thing keeping him from getting 2+1 was me identifying my target with a light.

    Who shoots anything in their own house without I'd ' ing it first?

    No excuse for the no knock, but I'm suprised nobody has mentioned this.

    What if it had been his daughters boyfriend, or his daughter climbing in the window?

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_dazzle23 View Post
    I am in no way defending the no knock police warrant, but I just had a thought. I've had to draw my weapon on someone in my house at night (thankfully, not a bad guy, just a horrible misunderstanding)....and the sole thing keeping him from getting 2+1 was me identifying my target with a light.

    Who shoots anything in their own house without I'd ' ing it first?

    No excuse for the no knock, but I'm suprised nobody has mentioned this.

    What if it had been his daughters boyfriend, or his daughter climbing in the window?
    I am taking he did not kick in your door and come rushing in pointing a gun dressed like a ninja. The least they could do is dress like a cop.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
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    Regular Member J_dazzle23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I am taking he did not kick in your door and come rushing in pointing a gun dressed like a ninja. The least they could do is dress like a cop.
    True. I thought this one they sneaked in the window. Assuming he is referring to the same no knock warrant he brought up in a different thread.

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Dont need telepathy... Need ears. When they yell POLICE... It means its cops...
    Really? Wow, that really is simple.


    Wait, I just tried it. I was able to yell "police". Is my voice broken? Am I a cop and didn't know it? What's going on?
    Advocate freedom please

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Dont need telepathy... Need ears. When they yell POLICE... It means its cops...
    Not in my book. Saint Valentines Day Massacre ring a bell?
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 09-24-2014 at 09:40 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_dazzle23 View Post
    ...Who shoots anything in their own house without I'd ' ing it first?
    The most important ID to make is that the other guy isn't me, or anyone else that is supposed to be in this house.

    Or am I supposed to ask him for his name, rank, and serial number and compare it against my list of welcome associates before trying to regain my only tactical advantage?

    You can buy cop uniforms at several places, from Halloween shops to the same 5.11 store where they buy theirs.

    Ultimately, what ID's someone is their actions. In your house uninvited, armed, and hostile = bad guy regardless of who he works for. How many no-knock warrants are actually NOT better served the next day with a felony stop?

    If you haven't trained your daughter not to sneak in, you have other problems you need to address.
    Last edited by MAC702; 09-24-2014 at 11:11 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member J_dazzle23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    The most important ID to make is that the other guy isn't me, or anyone else that is supposed to be in this house.

    Or am I supposed to ask him for his name, rank, and serial number and compare it against my list of welcome associates before trying to regain my only tactical advantage?

    You can buy cop uniforms at several places, from Halloween shops to the same 5.11 store where they buy theirs.

    Ultimately, what ID's someone is their actions. In your house uninvited, armed, and hostile = bad guy regardless of who he works for. How many no-knock warrants are actually NOT better served the next day with a felony stop?

    If you haven't trained your daughter not to sneak in, you have other problems you need to address.
    Totally agree. Just sayin [emoji12]

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Castle doctrine has its history in protecting people in their homes from the state.


    Yelling police while someone is sleeping and then crashing in is atrocious and just asking problems.

    Of course these raiders claim its better than sex.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    I have a hard time defending the 'no knock' warrant. I don't want to kill anyone needlessly but, if the confusion they generate it would be undrstandable if it happened. I had cops come to my door at 2:30am one time and they gave me three different names of who they were supposedly looking for. Being rousted from sleep it really didn't register. Either way I knew that they were not coming in. I had given my wife instruction that if they come in here (with the children) kill them. Wanna try a mama bear with cubs? We didn't know it was cops and when it was obvious that they were lying it really didn't matter who they were. Its my house and my castle to defend. Told them to come back in the daytime. They didn't.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Dont need telepathy... Need ears. When they yell POLICE... It means its cops...
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Plus let's not forget that anybody can yell police...
    Quote Originally Posted by skin'erback View Post
    come back in the daytime.
    My children know we are armed and dangerous. They would not think of trying to come through a window or a door, at night, without announcing themselves. And doing it LOUDLY.

    I am prepared for a home invasion, no matter who it it or what they are wearing. If you have a warrant, the light of day is your friend. Only a criminal would burst into my house in the dead of night. I will repel you with an orchestrated firefight that will leave blood on my floor. Do not even entertain the thought of killing my dog as you come in.

    No knocks , in the dead of night, seem to work in cases of the unprepared, but , Mate, "That ain't me". I saw my local swat team do a daylight raid. They threw CS gas in and then ran into the room. Then they all ran OUT of the room and put on their gas masks. inept.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    They threw CS gas in and then ran into the room. Then they all ran OUT of the room and put on their gas masks.
    Oh my god! That's so damn funny! xD
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    Oh my god! That's so damn funny! xD
    Reminds me of a battlefield Nam video I saw years ago. A butter bar throws a grenade into a hut and takes refuge behind the opening of the hut. You can guess how that turned out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Dont need telepathy... Need ears. When they yell POLICE... It means its cops...
    ANYONE can yell "Police" as they break into your home with force. There are many home invasion cases where the criminals did exactly that.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff. State View Post
    ANYONE can yell "Police" as they break into your home with force. There are many home invasion cases where the criminals did exactly that.
    Cite?
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by primus View Post
    cite?
    >>>>>police!<<<<
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 09-26-2014 at 12:52 PM.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Cite?
    https://www.google.com/#q=home+invaders+yell+police

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkingwolf View Post
    >>>>>police!<<<<
    lol.....
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff. State View Post
    On a serious note... From quick peruse of google it shows 2 or 3 incidents its happens over a several year time frame.

    Not very common I'd say. In fact I think there were MORE hits on Google about guys talking about the boogey man telling police the it actually happen... Go figure...
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    On a serious note... From quick peruse of google it shows 2 or 3 incidents its happens over a several year time frame.

    Not very common I'd say. In fact I think there were MORE hits on Google about guys talking about the boogey man telling police the it actually happen... Go figure...
    I suppose most successful home invasions don't have victim's accounts of how it happened. The simple fact is that it's a known tactic, and not one that requires much imagination to figure out.

    Otherwise, why bother giving cops uniforms and badges?

    As an aside, I've usually thought of you as fairly level-headed and usually presenting a decent argument. That said, I find your new avatar disturbing. Surely you know better?
    Last edited by MAC702; 09-26-2014 at 11:18 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    lol.....
    I can't figure out if he is that dumb or thinks we are...
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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