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Thread: Trooper charged after shooting man during traffic stop

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    Trooper charged after shooting man during traffic stop

    Ive seen a lot of LEO shootings that i felt should've been charged and weren't so i was pretty surprised at this one. I watched it several times and the guy kind of darts back in his car in a way that i would've construed as going for a weapon had i been in his shoes. Secondly, who gets out of their car during a stop then darts back in without telling the LEO what they are doing first? Anyway, just thought i would share.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014...ut-of-the-car/

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    VIDEO RELEASED: SC trooper charged with felony in shooting at traffic stop over seat

    An S.C. trooper who stopped a man for a seat belt violation outside Columbia and then shot him – apparently without provocation – was arrested Wednesday and charged with assault and battery of a high and aggravated nature.

    http://www.thestate.com/2014/09/24/3...ml?sp=/99/132/

    G00gle real time coverage with 81 articles ATM
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    So you would have shot a guy going for his wallet after you told him to?

    Yet there was cover right there with his car. Jumpy state agents trained to shoot first and ask questions later.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Wowwie!!!

    Seems he is a very well trained police man...
    all shots from about 7 FEET.
    1st shot is in the back
    2nd shot in the hip,,, i think this is the 1 that got him
    the cop is shooting before he can see his hands

    3rd shot the driver is facing the cop with hands down
    4th shot,, the money shot,,,
    the well trained police man shoots a man that has his Empty hands up!!!

    Did they ever find all the bullets?

    Will they ever offer the well trained police man a chance to re-qualify at the shooting range?
    Last edited by 1245A Defender; 09-25-2014 at 10:33 AM.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

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    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    And,,,

    gos to show the value of video proof
    if the cop had parked 25 degrees to the right. their would be NO evidence!
    the cop would be on desk duty instead of being thrown under a bus!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Glad to see he got fired and charged. I don't know his back story as to why he's so jumpy but he doesn't belong on the road if that's all it takes to shoot someone.

    It didn't mention if he victim is getting a settlement but it seems pretty slam dunk he would.
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    Sooo,,, unlike the crawford case, where the cops shot because he did NOT,,, cooperate....

    this guy cooperated by trying to get his license, as ordered....
    then he was ordered to,,, get out of the car!!!
    aND hE DID!!! Sooo when he did Get out of the Car,,, quickly!! the cop was quite adamant!!!
    The well trained police man shot him!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    So you would have shot a guy going for his wallet after you told him to?

    Yet there was cover right there with his car. Jumpy state agents trained to shoot first and ask questions later.
    Also looks to me like the guy was out of his vehicle BEFORE the SOB pulled up, then SOB was going to write for seat-belt when the guy was at a stop-n-rob, off a public road and on private property

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    Ive seen a lot of LEO shootings that i felt should've been charged and weren't so i was pretty surprised at this one. I watched it several times and the guy kind of darts back in his car in a way that 1) i would've construed as going for a weapon had i been in his shoes. Secondly, 2)who gets out of their car during a stop then darts back in without telling the LEO what they are doing first? Anyway, just thought i would share.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014...ut-of-the-car/
    1) If you think this is justified in any way you need your head examined. If you don't think it was justified, don't toe the line like a coward and admit what's wrong is wrong.

    2) Did you even watch the video? Cop asks for license, guy reaches into car, gets shot at multiple times for following directions. It didn't even look like he was pulled over, he was already stopped at a gas station.

    Are you a blind cop apologist or was this just your knee-jerk reaction before watching the video?
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    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    1) If you think this is justified in any way you need your head examined. If you don't think it was justified, don't toe the line like a coward and admit what's wrong is wrong.

    2) Did you even watch the video? Cop asks for license, guy reaches into car, gets shot at multiple times for following directions. It didn't even look like he was pulled over, he was already stopped at a gas station.

    Are you a blind cop apologist or was this just your knee-jerk reaction before watching the video?
    This is my main problem, the officer was an idiot. But being a idiot does not excuse shooting an unarmed innocent man.

    ETA if you(general) are an idiot please take off the badge and never touch a gun again in your lifetime.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 09-25-2014 at 02:57 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Glad to see he got fired and charged. I don't know his back story as to why he's so jumpy but he doesn't belong on the road if that's all it takes to shoot someone.

    It didn't mention if he victim is getting a settlement but it seems pretty slam dunk he would.
    Steroids maybe? How many of you dept. people use them?

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Steroids maybe? How many of you dept. people use them?
    None that I know of. We do random drug/alcohol screening.

    Also, did the guy I the video look like he was on steroids?
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Regular Member J_dazzle23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    None that I know of. We do random drug/alcohol screening.

    Also, did the guy I the video look like he was on steroids?
    Also, 99.9 percent of anabolic do not induce "roid rage" as the media would have you believe.

    It's about sports, and control. It's legal to use and possess them in the uk....no roid rage news stories over there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J_dazzle23 View Post
    Also, 99.9 percent of anabolic do not induce "roid rage" as the media would have you believe. It's about sports, and control. It's legal to use and possess them in the uk....no roid rage news stories over there.
    That is a grossly and falsely precise statement, "99.9%", and you CANNOT cite a professional peer reviewed study concluding "99.9%."

    In general, androgenic-anabolic-steroid use correlates with elevated mania and hypomania. The causes are secondary effects of steroid metabolism, e.g., increasing testes mass, testosterone concentration, et cetera.
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    Regular Member J_dazzle23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    That is a grossly and falsely precise statement, "99.9%", and you CANNOT cite a professional peer reviewed study concluding "99.9%."

    In general, androgenic-anabolic-steroid use correlates with elevated mania and hypomania. The causes are secondary effects of steroid metabolism, e.g., increasing testes mass, testosterone concentration, et cetera.
    You are right, I cannot prove the 99.9% by peer review study, but you were the one to make the insinuation that roid rage is a factor, so why dont we start with you citing biological claims first, yes? *Edit - this clearly was not stated by you^^^my mistake

    but that aside, yes. ethics boards are not too keen on giving humans super physiological amounts of anabolic steroids. That being said, we have a large body of both anecdotal data and extrapolatory data that shows this is GENERALLY not the case.

    Add on top of that, for generality sake, there are AT LEAST 100 or so different substances that are typically used in thousands of combinations that are used often for athletic and physique performance, (commonly called "steroids")and only very few of those(I'll leave out the names in case this is against forum rules) have even been rumored to have mood changing effects.

    Let's look from another angle. Some of the most popular ones are testosterone based. Are you telling me that men, since they naturally have testosterone, are more "rage prone" than women? Or men with higher testosterone levels will be more violent than those with lower testosterone levels?

    Are we sure it's not the differences between men's and women's levels of dopamine and Seratonin? Maybe estrogen or progesterone level? I'm sure you know conversion rates of most of that testosterone, as it ends up being converted to estrogen anyway...

    now anecdotally, anabolic use is WIDESPREAD in the US, and it's not even legal here. It's completely saturated professional sports, and let's not even start with the military.

    There should be steroid induced felonies ALL OVER. I mean every twenty minutes. Yet, whenever we hear about steroid induced rage in the media, it's always mixed with copius drug abuse and personality disorders (chris benoit, anyone?)

    Haven't heard of Lance Armstrong or mark Mcguire killing people in a roid induced rage, right?

    So to answer your question, no, most scientists would never get an ethics review board to approve super physiological dosing of steroids in humans. But having trained hundreds of bodybuilders on them, and the other large amount on anecdotal evidence, combined with some basic biochemistry....I think it's safe to say taking steroids is NOT going to cause an officer to shoot someone they normally wouldnt.
    Last edited by J_dazzle23; 09-25-2014 at 08:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    That is a grossly and falsely precise statement, "99.9%", and you CANNOT cite a professional peer reviewed study concluding "99.9%."

    In general, androgenic-anabolic-steroid use correlates with elevated mania and hypomania. The causes are secondary effects of steroid metabolism, e.g., increasing testes mass, testosterone concentration, et cetera.
    Also, testes mass decreases, and correlation=/=causation.


    Yesalis, et al(I believe) with new England journal of medicine - 600 Mg of testosterone weekly in this trial-

    " An important thing to note here would be that this test was undertaken on 4 groups of men. The first group was administered testosterone while they were on an exercising program, the second group was not on any exercise program. The third group was given a placebo and the fourth group was put on a placebo and an exercise program. The test group consisted of men aged between 19-40 years. The findings of the NEJM tests were as follows:

    “Zero differences were observed between the groups which went through exercise programs and the ones who did not have to go through an exercise program. Also, no major changes were observed between the groups on placebo drugs. The assessment was conducted in respect to the five sub divisions of anger classified under the Multidimensional Anger Inventory. No major changes were reported by the parents, spouses or living partners of the subjects."

    I'm actually suprised to find this one^, but it actually shows 100%.


    Also, another very large research study/review-

    "Out of 109 cases studied, only 5 people exhibited Psychological (Manic or Hypomanic) effects. (*Archives of General Psychiatry, Volume 57, February 2000"

    Individually, Su et al, and Bhasin et al and Yates, et al showed ONLY 3 of the 59 subjects showed mania or hypomania while taking anywhere from double to quadruple normal physiological amounts of various testosterones.

    To conclude, there actually have been some peer reviewed studies on this, and the empirical data that I am seeing here seems to support that if I exaggerated 99.9%, it was by quite a small amount.
    Last edited by J_dazzle23; 09-25-2014 at 08:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    None that I know of. We do random drug/alcohol screening.

    Also, did the guy I the video look like he was on steroids?
    Does not sound believable....use of steroids is known to be common.

    http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/201..._firefigh.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Does not sound believable....use of steroids is known to be common.

    http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/201..._firefigh.html
    For what it's worth, i know tons of police and.....well frankly any demographic, that uses them
    Last edited by J_dazzle23; 09-25-2014 at 10:43 PM.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Does not sound believable....use of steroids is known to be common.

    http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/201..._firefigh.html
    248 officers AND FIREFIGHTERS from across the WHOLE STATE (53 agencies) which includes corrections lumped into "law enforcement".... How many THOUSANDS of cops in NJ?

    So.... No. Not "common".

    Try again?
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Regular Member J_dazzle23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    248 officers AND FIREFIGHTERS from across the WHOLE STATE (53 agencies) which includes corrections lumped into "law enforcement".... How many THOUSANDS of cops in NJ?

    So.... No. Not "common".

    Try again?
    It doesn't even matter. They aren't going to play a factor in shootings.

    I mean the most juiced up, successful bodybuilder of all time is a cop.

    What are the odds?

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_dazzle23 View Post
    It doesn't even matter. They aren't going to play a factor in shootings.

    I mean the most juiced up, successful bodybuilder of all time is a cop.

    What are the odds?
    True. I did find your post earlier on the studies of "roid rage" insightful. Its a breath of fresh air to have some facts for once.
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Regular Member J_dazzle23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    True. I did find your post earlier on the studies of "roid rage" insightful. Its a breath of fresh air to have some facts for once.
    Thanks. It actually got me thinking, I've known a lot more state prison guards that liked em. They always told me it was because physically some of the inmates scare the crap out of em. I dont necessarily blame em.

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    RE: Post - "Jumpy state agents trained to shoot first and ask questions later"

    In many circumstances of bad LE shooting I would agree with this statement. I watched the video. The guy gets out of car in an agressive manner - you NEVER get out of a car when stopped. The guy then lunges into the car and spins around.

    CCW's in SC beware. Do not shoot anyone in self defense -- even if you are 100 % right. If they are willing to throw their own trooper under the bus then they will go after Joe CCW'er and try to put him in jail. This is NOT a Ferguson incident where the circumstances are not clear. This Trooper was JUSTIFIED. I would have done the same thing, but it would have been more than one round!

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    Quote Originally Posted by vermonter View Post
    In many circumstances of bad LE shooting I would agree with this statement. I watched the video. The guy gets out of car in an agressive manner - you NEVER get out of a car when stopped. The guy then lunges into the car and spins around.

    CCW's in SC beware. Do not shoot anyone in self defense -- even if you are 100 % right. If they are willing to throw their own trooper under the bus then they will go after Joe CCW'er and try to put him in jail. This is NOT a Ferguson incident where the circumstances are not clear. This Trooper was JUSTIFIED. I would have done the same thing, but it would have been more than one round!
    The "guy" was not getting out of the vehicle for a stop, he was just getting out of his vehicle. I don't see how that can be considered aggressive, maybe you need new glasses. The trooper did not even call a stop in, a good indication he decided to turn a non incident into a incident. The victim was out of his vehicle before the patrol car even stopped moving. There were no reflections off of glass indicating that lights were turned on. The trooper was a idiot, a jittery dangerous idiot.
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    The cop asked for license and the man automatically reached for his right rear pocket . He then realized his billfold was still in car and went after it . I can understand the cop going on high alert at that point but he started shooting as the guy was coming back out of the car and hadn't completely turned around yet.

    This was a bad shoot and the cop should get at least 20 years behind bars. Todays LEOs are way to trigger happy.

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