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Thread: "active shooter class" in Windsor, Va.

  1. #1
    Regular Member Old Virginia Joe's Avatar
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    Unhappy "active shooter class" in Windsor, Va.

    I see in today's Smithfield Times the local and state LEOs and local Ruritan club are having a class on this topic in the Windsor High School on Oct 13. I'm glad my kids don't go to a formal school house. If they did, since these government idiots refuse to allow any faculty to carry, I would have to tell them to just bend over and kiss their a$% goodbye! That's after they have to hide in a closet waiting to be executed!
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    That's the 3rd Monday of October - pretty sure that's when we celebrate someone using someone else's money to claim discovery of places other people already found. It might also be a school holiday.

    OTOH, there have been a significant number of times when the cops and the school administration agreed that running an active shooter drill in the middle of the school day without telling the staff it was going to happen or get parental permission for the kids to participate. So far those drills were not held in places where teachers are allowed to be armed. (Correlation? Could be. [/Bugs Bunny voice])

    I'd like to know if the cops are going to be using simunitions or paintballs, or will they just go from room to room yelling "Pew! Pew!"?

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    There is a BIG SIGN in an empty lot at 460/Church Street in Windsor advertising this event. Sadly I have to work that day and my wife is incapacitated with a post-op wound. Probably better that I don't attend, as I would surely be branded "dangerous" once I expressed my opinion, since I would probably be among the first to respond to an active shooter. My son just started 9th grade there and I am always armed when I drop him off and pick him up. It would take several minutes (a lifetime) for the local cops to amass the force necessary to enter with diamond formations. There might (or might not) be one Trooper near town, maybe one Deputy for that HALF of the County, and one or two Town cops available (or in court prosecuting the hundreds of speeding tickets issued that month). Once the school goes on lockdown I would be hunkered up outside seeking an entry point (if I don't bash the doors with my truck) or waiting to rendezvous with arriving Officers, and I probably wouldn't be the only one. The whole thing would be ripe for disaster. Maybe I should get a tee shirt to keep in my truck that says, "ARMED GOOD GUY / PARENT / DON'T SHOOT ME!"

    The sign says "Active Shooter Presentation / What you learn may save your life / Everyone Invited / Door Prizes / 7:00 p.m."

    After Sandy Hook I contacted Sheriff Marshall and offered to be part of a citizen school militia. Still waiting for a reply. BTW I am a former Deputy with the County, and a Paramedic in the next County over.
    Last edited by paramedic70002; 09-26-2014 at 08:51 PM.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    There is a BIG SIGN in an empty lot at 460/Church Street in Windsor advertising this event. Sadly I have to work that day and my wife is incapacitated with a post-op wound. Probably better that I don't attend, as I would surely be branded "dangerous" once I expressed my opinion, since I would probably be among the first to respond to an active shooter. My son just started 9th grade there and I am always armed when I drop him off and pick him up. It would take several minutes (a lifetime) for the local cops to amass the force necessary to enter with diamond formations. There might (or might not) be one Trooper near town, maybe one Deputy for that HALF of the County, and one or two Town cops available (or in court prosecuting the hundreds of speeding tickets issued that month). Once the school goes on lockdown I would be hunkered up outside seeking an entry point (if I don't bash the doors with my truck) or waiting to rendezvous with arriving Officers, and I probably wouldn't be the only one. The whole thing would be ripe for disaster. Maybe I should get a tee shirt to keep in my truck that says, "ARMED GOOD GUY / PARENT / DON'T SHOOT ME!"

    The sign says "Active Shooter Presentation / What you learn may save your life / Everyone Invited / Door Prizes / 7:00 p.m."

    After Sandy Hook I contacted Sheriff Marshall and offered to be part of a citizen school militia. Still waiting for a reply. BTW I am a former Deputy with the County, and a Paramedic in the next County over.
    I hate the diamond formation. Stupid in every way. I get its good for novices. But we shouldn't be novices.

    I once asked an instructor why we utilize it. One of the answers (pains me to admit) was because it made his feel better to walk together in formation.
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    A few months ago, I watched some video of a local county PD and a campus PD doing an active shooter drill. Their tactics were horrible. It always amazes me that PD's refuse to bring in trainers who specialize in defensive shooting situations. They want to teach outdated academy BS that isn't working.
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    Active shooter drill !! Oh wait, there's an active shooter outside !!!!!!

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Then there's this. On topic commentary inside video.

    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
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    Regular Member Old Virginia Joe's Avatar
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    answer me this . . . .

    Couldn't a potential school killer attend this very seminar and LEARN all about the school tactics in dealing with a massacre, to better plan his own future killing spree? Make himself more deadly, by knowing the school and LE response? Hmmm?
    Last edited by Old Virginia Joe; 09-27-2014 at 07:36 AM. Reason: fix typo
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    Hey, Libtards, it's the "Bill of Rights," not the "Bill of Needs" . . . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Virginia Joe View Post
    Couldn't a potential school killer attend this very seminar and LEARN all about the school tactics in dealing with a massacre, to better plan his own future killing spree? Make himself more deadly, by knowing the school and LE response? Hmmm?
    Well, one cannot get actual gov't plans for such instances as they would likely be considered a "safety risk"...

    The LEO response is pretty much standard textbook. Go to school, hear shots, check datebook to see what engagements we have next week (hey, we are not going to go into a bldg with a shooter(s)), wait for shooting to end, call the coroner, go home - all is well.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Virginia Joe View Post
    Couldn't a potential school killer attend this very seminar and LEARN all about the school tactics in dealing with a massacre, to better plan his own future killing spree? Make himself more deadly, by knowing the school and LE response? Hmmm?
    Well, I certainly hope the potential school shooter would. Two possible outcomes, both of which I see as "good".

    1) Potential school shooter realizes that the chances of reaching a significant number of killings is low, and rethinks the plan to shoot up a school. Moves target to a nearby mall.

    2) Mothers and fathers attending the seminar reach the same conclusion you have and see the only reasonably effective way of protecting their little snowflakes is to put guns inside the schools before the maniacs get there, and that it is both easier and cheaper to let some teachers be armed than to pay for public or private rent-a-cops.

    gotta think outside the straitjacket every once in a while.

    stay safe.
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    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Virginia Joe View Post
    Couldn't a potential school killer attend this very seminar and LEARN all about the school tactics in dealing with a massacre, to better plan his own future killing spree? Make himself more deadly, by knowing the school and LE response? Hmmm?
    I see this particular event as OC of an empty holster (and no, I don't mean as protest):
    1) Criminals MAY view it as a kind of deterrent
    2) Criminals may later make the connection that the gun was left behind (in other words, nothing has changed in the schools)
    3) Criminals realize they still have a few minutes to rack up as many kills and bonus points as possible to beat the last high score and win a spot with the other names the media so obligingly makes immortal.*


    *Refence to video games and the media somehow always making sure we know the three names of the scumbag who murdered the barrel of fish.
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 09-27-2014 at 01:06 PM.
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    Regular Member Old Virginia Joe's Avatar
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    or door number three!

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Well, I certainly hope the potential school shooter would. Two possible outcomes, both of which I see as "good".

    1) Potential school shooter realizes that the chances of reaching a significant number of killings is low, and rethinks the plan to shoot up a school. Moves target to a nearby mall.

    2) Mothers and fathers attending the seminar reach the same conclusion you have and see the only reasonably effective way of protecting their little snowflakes is to put guns inside the schools before the maniacs get there, and that it is both easier and cheaper to let some teachers be armed than to pay for public or private rent-a-cops.

    think outside the straitjacket every once in a while.

    stay safe.
    3) Potential schools shooter realizes from comments made at the seminar that there are flaws in his plan, and makes appropriate changes, thereby perfecting said plan for maximum carnage and mayhem.
    VCDL, Army Vet, Virginia Native

    Hey, Libtards, it's the "Bill of Rights," not the "Bill of Needs" . . . . .

    If the 2A does not apply to modern weapons, then the 1A does not apply to modern communications like the Internet! How do you like them apples!?

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Virginia Joe View Post
    3) Potential schools shooter realizes from comments made at the seminar that there are flaws in his plan, and makes appropriate changes, thereby perfecting said plan for maximum carnage and mayhem.
    Yeah, but what are the chances of the event actually happening? I'm more intrigued with the drama that would see the need to hold the event in the first place. Kind of reminds me of the news story of the little kid in NE Western BF Vermont whose older brother convinced her that the "Icicles" were going to come and slice off her head. Maybe at 7 years old you can strongly believe that such will happen. Heck, they still believe in the Easter Fairy and the Tooth Bunny at that age.

    But grown up adults living in and around Windsor, Va? I'd be more worried about zombies than about a multiple sudden killing event at the local school. (Unless I was the local head cop who needed some excuse for having all that military surplus stuff.)

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Just to round out the prepper vs paranoia discussion, I refer you to http://www.gunssavelife.com/?p=13688

    Some of the juicier parts:

    What to do as a parent

    1. Communicate with your kids on a plan if an active shooter or terrorist attack happens at his or her school. But then see the next section which details how to ignore all but the "official" plan

    2. Communicate with school officials. Ask to see a copy of their working plan in case of an active shooter or terror attack. If they don’t have one, put them in touch with people who can help them create one. Failure to have a plan may be actionable in court, and it’s certainly grossly negligent and unprofessional. And get reported as a "terrist" for trying to find out how they plan to serve your kid)s) up on a platter.


    3. You may wish to consider falsifying parental information in school records if true information would make your child a more desirable hostage in event of a takeover. Are you a cop, prosecutor, judge, religious or political leader, or similar? Don’t let school records make your kid an extra-special target. You’re now a shoe salesman as far as the records go. Again, setting yourself up to be labeled as a "terrist".

    4. Establish a family plan in case of an event. This should include identifying safe harbors for your kids in event of an emergency at the school. Family friend or relative live or work close to the school, for example? See comment #1 above.

    5. Assist school officials in identifying security deficiencies at the school. Does a back door get propped open when it should be secured? Are there maintenance issues needing attention (as in doors that don’t lock properly)? Can they install shatter-resistant plastic over windows near doors to slow down someone willing to break a window to open a door? This plastic can be as affordable as a $1-$2 per square foot but it’ll be priceless if it delays an attacker long enough for armed good guys to respond. And just who asked you to butt in? What are your qualifications as a "security analyst"? You must be some sort of "terrist"!

    ....

    What to communicate to your kids

    1. Tell your kids to pay attention to their surroundings. Notice suspicious people who don’t belong and avoid them and/or report them to trusted adults. Of course, they are just kids, but if you teach them to pay attention, it might save them down the road. Identify one person on the school staff that meets the definition of "trusted adult" when it comes to protecting your kid(s) in a situation such as is being discussed here.

    2. Let your kids know that if they are out on a playground, athletic field or elsewhere outside the school and something terrible happens, that they should be very reluctant to return into the school. A better alternative would be to run to the nearest safe harbor location you’ve identified with them where they can contact you or wait for you to arrive if there is no telephone service. Of note: text messages will sometimes go through when voice calls will not. Just how much time does your kid(s) get to be outside on a playground, athletic field or elsewhere outside the school building? And do you have any idea what the school staff's response will be if your kid(s) attempt to leave the group, let alone leave the school grounds?

    3. Tell them that unplanned fire alarms and bomb threat evacuations may be pretext for an attack. Your kids should be in Condition Orange (“Alert”) when they exit the building, watching for potential threats and being prepared to run for cover, or possibly concealment away from the school if gunfire should break out. Tell them to ignore their teacher if the adult appears to be dithering under a real, credible threat. Have your child lead their classmates to safety. Pretty much see comment #2 above.

    When they evacuate out into a playground or parking lot, for drills or real fires or bomb threats, tell them to look around for anything that doesn’t belong or is out of place. Look for boxes, bags, pipes, strange cars or trucks – anything that might contain bombs. Make sure your kids point suspicious object out to those in authority and stay as far away from those potential threats as possible. Again, pretty much see comment #2 above.

    4. If it is a real emergency event, tell your kids not to linger in a school parking lot or open field. Flee the area into nearby trees or nearby buildings and don’t stand around for a sniper or gunman to shoot them down. Don’t hang around parking lots where a 400-pound fertilizer bomb in someone’s trunk or a thousand-pounder in a box van can wipe out a whole school that has evacuated. Definitely see comment #2 above.

    Secondary attacks, via explosives, are expected in future attacks. While ISIS terrorists in America might shy away from securing real explosives, they may be able to build a crude ammonium nitrate / fuel oil bomb similar to the one that devastated the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. The goal with the secondary attack is to destroy first responders or evacuees at a likely staging location to add to the confusion and casualty count. Comment #2 above, OK?

    5. Lockdowns. If the “Lockdown” alarm sounds, the classroom door should immediately be closed and locked. Follow standard protocol from there. If there is gunfire after a lockdown, which might sound like firecrackers, urge your son or daughter to go out a window and run for cover or concealment away from the school campus. If that involves breaking a window to escape a classroom during an active shooter incident, do so if at all possible using a chair or a desk. Once again, comment #2 above.

    If escape from a classroom is not possible (or even if it is), barricade the door with desks, tables or anything else at hand. The idea is to delay entry for bad guys. As tiring as it is getting for me as well as for you - see comment #2 above.

    If escaping through a window is not possible because it’s not a ground floor classroom, search for improvised weapons. Fire extinguishers can be used to temporarily blind attackers or obscure escaping kids from view. Chemicals (potent acids, for instance) in chemistry labs may be useful, just as some musical instruments in band rooms. Flagpoles may be able to be used as improvised spears or clubs. Golf clubs and baseball bats beat empty-handed fighting. Utilize whatever improvised weapons are available to fight an attacker or attackers. I'd suggest seeing comment #2 above, except now you have gone too far by encouraging your kid(s) to commit criminal acts of assault.

    If the classroom is on a second floor and death seems imminent, a jump from a second floor may be the best course of action or use a rope or extension cord to minimize the fall. Now this might actually be worthwhile.
    stay safe.
    Last edited by skidmark; 09-28-2014 at 12:38 PM. Reason: formatting
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    What I found particularly intriguing, and semi-Orwellian, was the part of the sign that said, "What you learn may save your life" since the sign was directed at the general public instead of the target population of the school. I would really like to know more about that. I can only imagine that a Trooper with collar brass is going to stand there are tell all us ign'ant rednecks to STAY AWAY and let the pros handle it. The more I think about it, the more disturbed I get.

    Oh and Skid, I was giving my boys some of that advice before I ever read it. I am a firm believer in running an irregular zig zag pattern to avoid getting shot. Somebody tried to debunk it last year, but as long as there are other people running, zig zag gets my bet money.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    ....

    Oh and Skid, I was giving my boys some of that advice before I ever read it. I am a firm believer in running an irregular zig zag pattern to avoid getting shot. Somebody tried to debunk it last year, but as long as there are other people running, zig zag gets my bet money.
    Run straight towards the fat kids - they are slow and once you pass them they make halfway decent cover. If you get trapped inside a building, pull two or three fat kids over you.

    These are things learned when you attend inner-city schools.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  17. #17
    Regular Member Old Virginia Joe's Avatar
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    it's tomorrow . . . .

    Well, the class is tomorrow. Is anyone here going to disarm and step into the GFSZ? By the way, some of the posters here seem to think wrongly that this is a drill--not true. It is a class seminar for the ignorant public to attend, to be told what to do if a shooter threatens a school or any other public or private location.
    Last edited by Old Virginia Joe; 10-12-2014 at 01:04 PM.
    VCDL, Army Vet, Virginia Native

    Hey, Libtards, it's the "Bill of Rights," not the "Bill of Needs" . . . . .

    If the 2A does not apply to modern weapons, then the 1A does not apply to modern communications like the Internet! How do you like them apples!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Virginia Joe View Post
    Well, the class is tomorrow. Is anyone here going to disarm and step into the GFSZ? By the way, some of the posters here seem to think wrongly that this is a drill--not true. It is a class seminar for the ignorant public to attend, to be told what to do if a shooter threatens a school or any other public or private location.
    Go there and point your finger and go bang bang bang bang .. you're all dead ... class dismissed !

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Go there and point your finger and go bang bang bang bang .. you're all dead ... class dismissed !
    The above has been reported to the Virginia State Police as someone making terroristic https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/leg...+cod+18.2-46.4 threats and encouraging others to commit simulated offenses of shooting in an occupied building https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/leg...0+cod+18.2-279 and brandishing https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/leg...cod+18.2-282.1 among other offenses.

    A preliminary hearing will be held Monday morning to determine if the posting above is sufficient evidence of a mental disability to warrant an emergency custody order for the purpose of an involuntary mental health evaluation.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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