Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 99

Thread: Killed For Open Carry /// I'm Done

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    145

    Killed For Open Carry /// I'm Done

    http://theantimedia.org/ohio-open-ca...-innocent-man/

    http://reason.com/blog/2014/09/25/vi...guy-in-walmart

    From the media reports I've seen in the last few months about things constantly happening like this across the nation, I don't think I will be carrying openly any longer. Maybe once in a while, but for the most part, I'm done.


    sig

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,156
    You are the victim of a logical fallacy, believing reality as reported by the news media represents a statistically significant sample. The media are propagandists agitating to their own benefit at government direction.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    145
    Or, maybe I've learned enough by both thousands of hours of personally openly carrying, and hundreds of stories like this one, that I don't feel like getting taken out by some domestic enemy.
    Last edited by Plan B; 09-26-2014 at 07:48 AM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,156
    Really, and how many such incidents have you had?

    Do you understand that the probabilities of independent events are the products of each of the event probabilities? You have had thousands of hours of experience, and 300 million citizens have had billions of hours of experience being legally armed, so the incident per hour rate is what, MINUSCULE?

    The stories are selected to propagandize weak minds.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 09-26-2014 at 07:58 AM.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Northwest Kent County, Michigan
    Posts
    757
    Quote Originally Posted by Plan B View Post
    Or, maybe I've learned enough by both thousands of hours of personally openly carrying, and hundreds of stories like this one, that I don't feel like getting taken out by some domestic enemy.
    PlanB, the rifle/BB gun wasn't in a sling on the innocent victim's back as would be the case in normal long arm OC. Granted, it was still murder as there are other logical reasons why someone would have a firearm in their hands (i.e. the customer was buying or examining it. Having watched the video, it appears the customer was nowhere near the sporting goods area, was twirling the rifle/BB gun around this way and that, checking its action, etc. Not smart in my humble opinion, still not enough to even remotely justify the execution that occurred moments later, but just saying. OCers don't do any of those things.

    *****

    Did you see the video of the police officer shooting the motorist in broad daylight for doing exactly what the police officer ordered him to do (retrieving his identification)? Lesson, you can be innocent and shot by the police, OC or not!

    http://www.autoblog.com/2014/09/25/v...lack-motorist/

    Carrying on!
    Last edited by OC4me; 09-26-2014 at 09:02 AM.

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    145
    Yes I saw that, but we arent here for cop bashing.

  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    145
    Did you see the person with the BB gun threaten himself, another person, or the police officer?

    Did the person holding the BB gun act in a manner that would justify any of US in using deadly force against this individual?

  8. #8
    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Police State, USA
    Posts
    1,270
    So if criminal cops start shooting people for exercising freedom of speech are you going to stop talking too?

  9. #9
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Henrico
    Posts
    2,139
    Quote Originally Posted by Plan B View Post
    Yes I saw that, but we arent here for cop bashing.
    That's not cop bashing dude. That's citing a specific example of someone NOT OCing getting brutalized.

    As for not wanting to open carry any more, I think that's silly, and you're using some especially silly logic. I don't know. To me you sound like someone that maybe can't handle the responsibility of OCing, or carrying a gun in the first place. Don't do it because anyone here tells you to. Do it because you are aware enough to do so.

    The whole point of gun ownership is to fight back against that which you claim to fear. What's your story? What were your motivations for carrying in the first place?
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

    μολὼν λαβέ

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  10. #10
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Secret Bunker
    Posts
    2,573

    Lightbulb

    ** Not a attack - a post out of genuine concern for the forum & you. **

    @OP if you are who I think you are... you have a constant need to do things in your own special way, which is fine most of the time. It's those times that haven't worked out so well that many take issue with. However - you and I both know that coming here and seeking any kind of calm, rational discussion of your life choices will open up a troll fest. I mean this in the nicest way possible...why? Why come where you know you are not welcome? You that lonely? I hope not? If you are call me, I'll talk to you for a while. You have very limited options right now and being frustrated is understandable. Hopefully, as you age and gain more knowledge and impulse control, you will find life getting much easier.

    Please don't dump turmoil in this forum, we have way too many trolls already for that. It sounds like you won't open carry for a while? That maybe a good choice until things calm down in general and for you in particular.

    Peace be with Sir.

    PS - Facebook maybe a better venue for you, it is full of folks talking about all sorts of things and expressing sometimes unorthodox & unusual ideas & actions.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    I think that Plan B is of the opinion that if he gets approached by a cop then his odds of being shot are high.

    I think that people may just start shooting cops who are approaching them, just because of this type of belief.

  12. #12
    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    881
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I think that Plan B is of the opinion that if he gets approached by a cop then his odds of being shot are high.

    I think that people may just start shooting cops who are approaching them, just because of this type of belief.
    sigh While I do certainly believe cops can and do commit crimes I don't think one should assume an approaching cop will murder a civilian even though some sure have. Now I do believe if a cop threatens your life then you do certainly have the right to defend yourself even if it means shooting them but I do not believe cops are inherently dangerous nor do I believe one should 'shoot on sight'. This is quite a dangerous attitude and tantamount to anarchy. They do have a legitimate job to do even though some (many?) will overstep those bounds and it is a very small minority who will go and murder an OCer. It's more than possible to go through ones life never seeing anything close to that level of power abuse.
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

    Conservative Broadcast || Google Plus profile

  13. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    145
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I think that Plan B is of the opinion that if he gets approached by a cop then his odds of being shot are high.

    I think that people may just start shooting cops who are approaching them, just because of this type of belief.
    My goodnes I hope not!!!!

  14. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    145
    It goes back to why I carry.

    I do for my own safety, justified by God and the Constitution. Therefore, I feel that since carrying openly has become increasingly more of a liability to us as we as a nation continue trade our freedoms for security, then perhaps carrying openly is no longer the safest way to defend oneself.

  15. #15
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,881
    Quote Originally Posted by Plan B View Post
    It goes back to why I carry.

    I do for my own safety, justified by God and the Constitution. Therefore, I feel that since carrying openly has become increasingly more of a liability to us as we as a nation continue trade our freedoms for security, then perhaps carrying openly is no longer the safest way to defend oneself.
    plan b, please see grapeshot for the applicable form to fill out in triplicate to resign from this open carry forum based on the new convictions you are espousing in this thread. I am sure they will process your resignation promptly and without prejudice.

    good luck in your future SD endeavours.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  16. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    sigh While I do certainly believe cops can and do commit crimes I don't think one should assume an approaching cop will murder a civilian even though some sure have. Now I do believe if a cop threatens your life then you do certainly have the right to defend yourself even if it means shooting them but I do not believe cops are inherently dangerous nor do I believe one should 'shoot on sight'. This is quite a dangerous attitude and tantamount to anarchy. They do have a legitimate job to do even though some (many?) will overstep those bounds and it is a very small minority who will go and murder an OCer. It's more than possible to go through ones life never seeing anything close to that level of power abuse.
    When would you consider the moment that a cop is threatening your life?

  17. #17
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    145
    About the same amount of time the guy in the video did.

  18. #18
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Henrico
    Posts
    2,139
    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    plan b, please see grapeshot for the applicable form to fill out in triplicate to resign from this open carry forum based on the new convictions you are espousing in this thread. I am sure they will process your resignation promptly and without prejudice.

    good luck in your future SD endeavours.

    ipse
    +1

    Plan B, I urge you to answer my questions. I'm not a troll. I'm genuinely concerned.
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

    μολὼν λαβέ

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  19. #19
    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    881
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    When would you consider the moment that a cop is threatening your life?
    i'm out of state so don't know the MI laws but far as i'm concerned if a cop draws a gun and points it towards you, he intends to use it or is certainly threatening to. That puts one in imminent danger of being killed and therefore using your weapon is justified. I should also be quite clear that applies to civilians as well. I won't have double standards.
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

    Conservative Broadcast || Google Plus profile

  20. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    i'm out of state so don't know the MI laws but far as i'm concerned if a cop draws a gun and points it towards you, he intends to use it or is certainly threatening to. That puts one in imminent danger of being killed and therefore using your weapon is justified. I should also be quite clear that applies to civilians as well. I won't have double standards.
    "intends to use it"? Minding reading powers...activate.

    So if a cop points his gun at you .. then what? He's kinda got the drop on you then, right? A little too late?

  21. #21
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216
    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    i'm out of state so don't know the MI laws but far as i'm concerned if a cop draws a gun and points it towards you, he intends to use it or is certainly threatening to. That puts one in imminent danger of being killed and therefore using your weapon is justified. I should also be quite clear that applies to civilians as well. I won't have double standards.
    Hmmm...

    So your gun his holstered on a traffic stop. The officer pulls his for whatever reason. And either points it at or near you. Your answer is......?

    Let me say this... Seriously think about that chain of events. Officers draw firearms all the time bases on various situations. Personally, it should NEVER be pointed AT a person unless they are an immediate threat. But, I can't/won't speak for anyone else and I know there are clowns out there who forget what a gun does (makes holes in people). I digress..

    So your on a traffic stop. Officer sees something or doesn't see something (hands) that gets him on alert. Guaranteed he has no INTENTION of shooting you. But the gun is out because of reason X. Well you see gun and feel "threatened" .You pull/reach for gun. Guess what, now he's going to shoot you.

    I'll take it a step further (this part is important). Ok even if you get the drop on officer A and shoot him in "defense". Now what? Do you think you just drive home? No. What would happen is every officer in the county would come screaming down at Mach 6 because a cop was shot. So they all arrive..... With GUNS OUT and rifles. And they will all be pointed at you. What then?

    Do you then go out in a blaze of glory and shoot every officer that is "threatening" you? You'll get shot and killed. Or you could drop gun and submit. Then you'd be in jail for a long time because you killed a cop or cops simply because they pointed a gun at you. So at the end of this situation where are you? Dead or in jail. Why? Because you reacted to a perceived "threat" by going for gun.

    In summary, officers do draw firearms on a daily basis. The percentage of times its used is incredibly small. It an officer pulls his gun on a stop/scene there's a guarantee he's not intending to shoot anyone. When you go for gun you just changed that to guarantees he's going to shoot. If he's already shooting at you for no reason then hey how you react is on you. I just advise NOT to escalate it.

    Some of the things you say seriously make me fear for your safety when you finally get a gun and eventually start carrying. Thats not meant as a slight, I'm genuinely concerns for your safety and those around you.


    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    "intends to use it"? Minding reading powers...activate.

    So if a cop points his gun at you .. then what? He's kinda got the drop on you then, right? A little too late?
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  22. #22
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Secret Bunker
    Posts
    2,573
    The whole issue is - are officers pointing their guns at people recklessly? By any standard that would be applied to us mere mortal humans (citizens), the answer is a resounding YES, they are often.

    So in summary - officers should carry their firearms as they would expect citizens to do under the law. If not, this issue will never get solved. I am all for officers going home at the end of their shifts, just not at the expense of innocent people. If a officer draws his pistol or points his rifle/shotgun it had better be for a damn good reason, not because he/she "feels" that they are entitled to act outside or above the law.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  23. #23
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216
    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    The whole issue is - are officers pointing their guns at people recklessly? By any standard that would be applied to us mere mortal humans (citizens), the answer is a resounding YES, they are often.

    So in summary - officers should carry their firearms as they would expect citizens to do under the law. If not, this issue will never get solved. I am all for officers going home at the end of their shifts, just not at the expense of innocent people. If a officer draws his pistol or points his rifle/shotgun it had better be for a damn good reason, not because he/she "feels" that they are entitled to act outside or above the law.
    I agree. Like I said there are idiots who point guns at others when its not needed. That's a training issue.

    I train guys civilian side and it's Paramount that you dont point guns at people unless you have to. On the other side training is much more lax because its training for worst case scenario. The problem is guys don't know how to do in the middle. Say... Low ready or by your leg while you assess situation.

    Like the guy who was just shot reaching for his wallet. If the officer remained at low ready or even by his side he'd be prepared if it was a weapon. Instead he goes from nothing to shooting. Skipping the middle piece.

    Not trying to Monday morning quarterback but an analysis is needed to further your own training/reactions.
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Detroit
    Posts
    136
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Really, and how many such incidents have you had?

    Do you understand that the probabilities of independent events are the products of each of the event probabilities? You have had thousands of hours of experience, and 300 million citizens have had billions of hours of experience being legally armed, so the incident per hour rate is what, MINUSCULE?

    The stories are selected to propagandize weak minds.
    Neil errr I meant plan b has had plenty of run ins with the law.

  25. #25
    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    881
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    "intends to use it"? Minding reading powers...activate.

    So if a cop points his gun at you .. then what? He's kinda got the drop on you then, right? A little too late?
    Can't shoot first and ask questions later either. Where are you suggesting the line is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post

    So your on a traffic stop. Officer sees something or doesn't see something (hands) that gets him on alert. Guaranteed he has no INTENTION of shooting you. But the gun is out because of reason X. Well you see gun and feel "threatened" .You pull/reach for gun. Guess what, now he's going to shoot you.

    Some of the things you say seriously make me fear for your safety when you finally get a gun and eventually start carrying. Thats not meant as a slight, I'm genuinely concerns for your safety and those around you.
    Why would a cop even draw his gun unless he was in immediate fear for his life? This is my worry. Cops being too trigger happy. Like that MI video of the cop that saw and OCer and drew his weapon. That is NOT a reason to draw ones weapon.
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

    Conservative Broadcast || Google Plus profile

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •