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Killed For Open Carry /// I'm Done

Plan B

Banned
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
144
Location
Earth
Or, maybe I've learned enough by both thousands of hours of personally openly carrying, and hundreds of stories like this one, that I don't feel like getting taken out by some domestic enemy.
 
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OC4me

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
750
Location
Northwest Kent County, Michigan
Or, maybe I've learned enough by both thousands of hours of personally openly carrying, and hundreds of stories like this one, that I don't feel like getting taken out by some domestic enemy.

PlanB, the rifle/BB gun wasn't in a sling on the innocent victim's back as would be the case in normal long arm OC. Granted, it was still murder as there are other logical reasons why someone would have a firearm in their hands (i.e. the customer was buying or examining it. Having watched the video, it appears the customer was nowhere near the sporting goods area, was twirling the rifle/BB gun around this way and that, checking its action, etc. Not smart in my humble opinion, still not enough to even remotely justify the execution that occurred moments later, but just saying. OCers don't do any of those things.

*****

Did you see the video of the police officer shooting the motorist in broad daylight for doing exactly what the police officer ordered him to do (retrieving his identification)? Lesson, you can be innocent and shot by the police, OC or not!

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/09/25/video-white-police-officer-shoots-unarmed-black-motorist/

Carrying on!
 
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Plan B

Banned
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
144
Location
Earth
Did you see the person with the BB gun threaten himself, another person, or the police officer?

Did the person holding the BB gun act in a manner that would justify any of US in using deadly force against this individual?
 

The Truth

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
1,972
Location
Henrico
Yes I saw that, but we arent here for cop bashing.

That's not cop bashing dude. That's citing a specific example of someone NOT OCing getting brutalized.

As for not wanting to open carry any more, I think that's silly, and you're using some especially silly logic. I don't know. To me you sound like someone that maybe can't handle the responsibility of OCing, or carrying a gun in the first place. Don't do it because anyone here tells you to. Do it because you are aware enough to do so.

The whole point of gun ownership is to fight back against that which you claim to fear. What's your story? What were your motivations for carrying in the first place?
 

FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,508
Location
Secret Bunker
** Not a attack - a post out of genuine concern for the forum & you. **

@OP if you are who I think you are... you have a constant need to do things in your own special way, which is fine most of the time. It's those times that haven't worked out so well that many take issue with. However - you and I both know that coming here and seeking any kind of calm, rational discussion of your life choices will open up a troll fest. I mean this in the nicest way possible...why? Why come where you know you are not welcome? You that lonely? I hope not? If you are call me, I'll talk to you for a while. You have very limited options right now and being frustrated is understandable. Hopefully, as you age and gain more knowledge and impulse control, you will find life getting much easier.

Please don't dump turmoil in this forum, we have way too many trolls already for that. It sounds like you won't open carry for a while? That maybe a good choice until things calm down in general and for you in particular.

Peace be with Sir.

PS - Facebook maybe a better venue for you, it is full of folks talking about all sorts of things and expressing sometimes unorthodox & unusual ideas & actions.
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
I think that Plan B is of the opinion that if he gets approached by a cop then his odds of being shot are high.

I think that people may just start shooting cops who are approaching them, just because of this type of belief.
 

rightwinglibertarian

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
827
Location
Seattle WA
I think that Plan B is of the opinion that if he gets approached by a cop then his odds of being shot are high.

I think that people may just start shooting cops who are approaching them, just because of this type of belief.

sigh While I do certainly believe cops can and do commit crimes I don't think one should assume an approaching cop will murder a civilian even though some sure have. Now I do believe if a cop threatens your life then you do certainly have the right to defend yourself even if it means shooting them but I do not believe cops are inherently dangerous nor do I believe one should 'shoot on sight'. This is quite a dangerous attitude and tantamount to anarchy. They do have a legitimate job to do even though some (many?) will overstep those bounds and it is a very small minority who will go and murder an OCer. It's more than possible to go through ones life never seeing anything close to that level of power abuse.
 

Plan B

Banned
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
144
Location
Earth
I think that Plan B is of the opinion that if he gets approached by a cop then his odds of being shot are high.

I think that people may just start shooting cops who are approaching them, just because of this type of belief.

My goodnes I hope not!!!!
 

Plan B

Banned
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
144
Location
Earth
It goes back to why I carry.

I do for my own safety, justified by God and the Constitution. Therefore, I feel that since carrying openly has become increasingly more of a liability to us as we as a nation continue trade our freedoms for security, then perhaps carrying openly is no longer the safest way to defend oneself.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
It goes back to why I carry.

I do for my own safety, justified by God and the Constitution. Therefore, I feel that since carrying openly has become increasingly more of a liability to us as we as a nation continue trade our freedoms for security, then perhaps carrying openly is no longer the safest way to defend oneself.

plan b, please see grapeshot for the applicable form to fill out in triplicate to resign from this open carry forum based on the new convictions you are espousing in this thread. I am sure they will process your resignation promptly and without prejudice.

good luck in your future SD endeavours.

ipse
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
sigh While I do certainly believe cops can and do commit crimes I don't think one should assume an approaching cop will murder a civilian even though some sure have. Now I do believe if a cop threatens your life then you do certainly have the right to defend yourself even if it means shooting them but I do not believe cops are inherently dangerous nor do I believe one should 'shoot on sight'. This is quite a dangerous attitude and tantamount to anarchy. They do have a legitimate job to do even though some (many?) will overstep those bounds and it is a very small minority who will go and murder an OCer. It's more than possible to go through ones life never seeing anything close to that level of power abuse.

When would you consider the moment that a cop is threatening your life?
 

The Truth

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
1,972
Location
Henrico
plan b, please see grapeshot for the applicable form to fill out in triplicate to resign from this open carry forum based on the new convictions you are espousing in this thread. I am sure they will process your resignation promptly and without prejudice.

good luck in your future SD endeavours.

ipse

+1

Plan B, I urge you to answer my questions. I'm not a troll. I'm genuinely concerned.
 

rightwinglibertarian

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
827
Location
Seattle WA
When would you consider the moment that a cop is threatening your life?

i'm out of state so don't know the MI laws but far as i'm concerned if a cop draws a gun and points it towards you, he intends to use it or is certainly threatening to. That puts one in imminent danger of being killed and therefore using your weapon is justified. I should also be quite clear that applies to civilians as well. I won't have double standards.
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
i'm out of state so don't know the MI laws but far as i'm concerned if a cop draws a gun and points it towards you, he intends to use it or is certainly threatening to. That puts one in imminent danger of being killed and therefore using your weapon is justified. I should also be quite clear that applies to civilians as well. I won't have double standards.

"intends to use it"? Minding reading powers...activate.

So if a cop points his gun at you .. then what? He's kinda got the drop on you then, right? A little too late?
 

Primus

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
3,939
Location
United States
i'm out of state so don't know the MI laws but far as i'm concerned if a cop draws a gun and points it towards you, he intends to use it or is certainly threatening to. That puts one in imminent danger of being killed and therefore using your weapon is justified. I should also be quite clear that applies to civilians as well. I won't have double standards.
Hmmm...

So your gun his holstered on a traffic stop. The officer pulls his for whatever reason. And either points it at or near you. Your answer is......?

Let me say this... Seriously think about that chain of events. Officers draw firearms all the time bases on various situations. Personally, it should NEVER be pointed AT a person unless they are an immediate threat. But, I can't/won't speak for anyone else and I know there are clowns out there who forget what a gun does (makes holes in people). I digress..

So your on a traffic stop. Officer sees something or doesn't see something (hands) that gets him on alert. Guaranteed he has no INTENTION of shooting you. But the gun is out because of reason X. Well you see gun and feel "threatened" .You pull/reach for gun. Guess what, now he's going to shoot you.

I'll take it a step further (this part is important). Ok even if you get the drop on officer A and shoot him in "defense". Now what? Do you think you just drive home? No. What would happen is every officer in the county would come screaming down at Mach 6 because a cop was shot. So they all arrive..... With GUNS OUT and rifles. And they will all be pointed at you. What then?

Do you then go out in a blaze of glory and shoot every officer that is "threatening" you? You'll get shot and killed. Or you could drop gun and submit. Then you'd be in jail for a long time because you killed a cop or cops simply because they pointed a gun at you. So at the end of this situation where are you? Dead or in jail. Why? Because you reacted to a perceived "threat" by going for gun.

In summary, officers do draw firearms on a daily basis. The percentage of times its used is incredibly small. It an officer pulls his gun on a stop/scene there's a guarantee he's not intending to shoot anyone. When you go for gun you just changed that to guarantees he's going to shoot. If he's already shooting at you for no reason then hey how you react is on you. I just advise NOT to escalate it.

Some of the things you say seriously make me fear for your safety when you finally get a gun and eventually start carrying. Thats not meant as a slight, I'm genuinely concerns for your safety and those around you.


"intends to use it"? Minding reading powers...activate.

So if a cop points his gun at you .. then what? He's kinda got the drop on you then, right? A little too late?
 

FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,508
Location
Secret Bunker
The whole issue is - are officers pointing their guns at people recklessly? By any standard that would be applied to us mere mortal humans (citizens), the answer is a resounding YES, they are often.

So in summary - officers should carry their firearms as they would expect citizens to do under the law. If not, this issue will never get solved. I am all for officers going home at the end of their shifts, just not at the expense of innocent people. If a officer draws his pistol or points his rifle/shotgun it had better be for a damn good reason, not because he/she "feels" that they are entitled to act outside or above the law.
 
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