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Thread: open carry for felon with restored rights

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    open carry for felon with restored rights

    I had got a felon 13 years ago and i heard after 5 years your rights are restored. So i went and applied for a permit at the police station and i wasnt denyed. But im still scared to go buy. If i buy can i open carry or how does this all work? Please help

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    I am no expert on felony convictions but I have never heard of any that time out like that. I have however heard of getting them expunged.

    Unless someone more well versed in these matters chimes in, I would suggest contacting a competent lawyer.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

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    DO NOT use the permit you got at the police station. There does not seem to be any "automatic restoration" of civil rights in Michigan.

    DO NOT attempt a private purchase - the odds of being found out may be small but the price, if you are, are huge.

    Contacting an attorney is good advice. Tell them you want to have your civil rights restored.

    Read http://www.lsgmi.org/downloads/Civil...onBrochure.PDF to get an idea if you even qualify, and if so what you are going to have to go through.

    stay safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanman View Post
    I had got a felon 13 years ago and i heard after 5 years your rights are restored. So i went and applied for a permit at the police station and i wasnt denyed. But im still scared to go buy. If i buy can i open carry or how does this all work? Please help
    Where did you hear this?

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Do NOT buy any gun.
    I have family members with felony convictions and have researched this completely.
    The ONLY way your rights can be restored by federal standards is to have your conviction overturned and expunged at the federal level.
    As others have heard and thought having them expunged at the state level does NOT exempt you from the federal prohibition of a felon possessing a firearm.
    At the federal level you are allowed to have a felony possibly expunged IF it is the ONLY thing on your record. This includes civil infractions and misdemeanors.
    So if you have ever had a traffic/parking ticket; you lose.
    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but there is no way currently that a convicted felon can possess ANY firearm.

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    How can i pass a background check and recieve a permit and they allow me to purchase at a gun store. It almost seems like a setup

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    How can i pass a background check and receive a pistol permit the the police station if they know its illegal. Sounds like a setup to me.

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    If you have ever had a felony, even if a state expunges the record, it still holds as a felony on the federal level, making it impossible to pass a NICS check.

    Your rights have been infringed.

    As far as I see it, if they don't want to play by the rules, then we shouldn't either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vanman View Post
    How can i pass a background check and receive a pistol permit the the police station if they know its illegal. Sounds like a setup to me.
    Wouldnt put it past them.

    I would absolutely love to hear how this both happened, and how it turns out. If you resolve it and we cross your mind again, please l;et us know how this went down. For us, it's fascinating.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Our quality of life is determined by the choices we make. No matter what you read here...
    Choose wisely and consult a good firearms attorney.

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    Well im gonna do alittle morr research but i do know my rights have been restored at the state level. If no one have ever heard about it google michigan felon rights restored. Anyways i believe this cpuld be treated like majauna. Legal in some states but still illegal at a federal level. Im gonna apply for my cpl with the gun board and see whete that gets me

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    Quote Originally Posted by vanman View Post
    Well im gonna do alittle morr research but i do know my rights have been restored at the state level. If no one have ever heard about it google michigan felon rights restored. Anyways i believe this cpuld be treated like majauna. Legal in some states but still illegal at a federal level. Im gonna apply for my cpl with the gun board and see whete that gets me
    Don't do it, you'd have to take a training class first in order to apply for your CPL, to get that certificate means you would need to actually hold and fire a firearm at the range for the live fire portion. That certificate of completion would be all the prosecutor needs to nail your ass for illegal possession (really all the Federal statute requires to satisfy 'possession' is that you simply touch a gun, any gun).

    Don't be stupid about this, consult a REAL attorney!

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    Quote Originally Posted by vanman View Post
    Well im gonna do alittle morr research but i do know my rights have been restored at the state level. If no one have ever heard about it google michigan felon rights restored. Anyways i believe this cpuld be treated like majauna. Legal in some states but still illegal at a federal level. Im gonna apply for my cpl with the gun board and see whete that gets me
    Don't do it. Restoration of rights is not automatic. From michigancriminalattorney.com:

    In the state of Michigan, it is unlawful for a person convicted of a felony to possess, carry or use a firearm unless their right to possess carry or use the firearm has been restored. If their firearm rights have not been restored they can be charged and convicted of another felony for which the maximum penalty is five years in prison. How does a felon restore their firearm rights? There are two ways and it depends upon the original felony that was committed.

    First, if the felony is one of the following then a restoration process must be held:

    - Any felony involving the unlawful possession, distribution, or manufacture of a controlled substance

    - Any felony involving the unlawful possession of a firearm

    - Any felony involving the unlawful use of an explosive

    - Burglary or breaking and entering of a occupied home

    - Any felony that involves harming or assaulting another person

    - Arson

    If you have been convicted of one or more of the above felonies and five years have expired after you have successfully completed all terms of parole or probation including all fines paid you can apply for a firearms restoration by doing the following:

    Apply to the concealed weapons licensing board in the county you live in.
    So, if your crime fits one of those categories, and 5 years have passed since you completed all terms of parole, probation, fines paid, etc, then you can *apply* for your rights to be restored. Do not do anything with a firearm until you've done this and gotten your rights restored.
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    I understand all this and have read many things. Of my rights werent restored then i wpuldve failed my background check when i applied for my pistol permit at the police station. Instead they aproved me and handed me a permit to go buy a gun. That tells me im legal to own. Right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by vanman View Post
    I understand all this and have read many things. Of my rights werent restored then i wpuldve failed my background check when i applied for my pistol permit at the police station. Instead they aproved me and handed me a permit to go buy a gun. That tells me im legal to own. Right?

    DO NOT TAKE INTERNET ADVICE AS THE WHOLE OF IT.

    As pointed out in post #3 by skidmark, you really need to contact a 2A friendly attorney in your state to ask this question. It is entirely possible that the background check procedure differs significantly when getting a firearm as when getting a concealed carry permit/license/permission slip. For example, in my home state, concealed handgun permits appear to be primarily county- and state-run affairs, while firearms purchases are primarily federal (ATF form 4473).

    So it is VERY possible that your state allowed a concealed handgun permit (or your favorite alphabet soup that amounts to the same thing), but still fail the purchasing portion.

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    I have the purchase permit in hand. I could go to a store and walk out right now buying a gun in my name. I passed everything. Anybody a lawyer in the area i could email and maybe ask a few questions? I called michigan state police and is advice was go buy one and if you pass your check and walk out with one your all good. He said atf does the checks and thats federal so of you pass federal then you pass here in michigan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vanman View Post
    I understand all this and have read many things. Of my rights werent restored then i wpuldve failed my background check when i applied for my pistol permit at the police station. Instead they aproved me and handed me a permit to go buy a gun. That tells me im legal to own. Right?
    No, it does not. It only shows you that whatever process was used, did not deny your permit. You have been given adequate advice which you are refusing to heed.
    Quote Originally Posted by vanman View Post
    I have the purchase permit in hand. I could go to a store and walk out right now buying a gun in my name. I passed everything. Anybody a lawyer in the area i could email and maybe ask a few questions? I called michigan state police and is advice was go buy one and if you pass your check and walk out with one your all good. He said atf does the checks and thats federal so of you pass federal then you pass here in michigan.
    Here is the problem for that. You have questions as to felony convictions to answer when purchasing a firearm from a dealer. If you choose incorrectly when answering those questions, you have added to your troubles. Do NOT ask for legal advice from cops.

    From the link in JustaShooter's post :

    Please be advised that if your state gun rights have been restored that does not mean your federal rights have been restored. Each case must be evaluated individually to determine exclusions under federal law. Some offenses will be and others will not. The question becomes under what circumstances do federal law enforcement authorities enforce federal firearm statutes.

    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/pr...oc_77015_7.pdf

    Read that. Read the referenced statutes. Contact a lawyer. Do NOT purchase a firearm until you actually understand the statutes and how your conviction is viewed by federal law concerning firearm ownership.


    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(c53...e=mcl-750-224f

    MCL Section 750.224f

    750.224f Possession of firearm or distribution of ammunition by person convicted of felony; circumstances; penalty; applicability of section to expunged or set aside conviction; definitions.
    Sec. 224f.

    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person convicted of a felony shall not possess, use, transport, sell, purchase, carry, ship, receive, or distribute a firearm in this state until the expiration of 3 years after all of the following circumstances exist:

    (a) The person has paid all fines imposed for the violation.

    (b) The person has served all terms of imprisonment imposed for the violation.

    (c) The person has successfully completed all conditions of probation or parole imposed for the violation.

    (2) A person convicted of a specified felony shall not possess, use, transport, sell, purchase, carry, ship, receive, or distribute a firearm in this state until all of the following circumstances exist:

    (a) The expiration of 5 years after all of the following circumstances exist:

    (i) The person has paid all fines imposed for the violation.

    (ii) The person has served all terms of imprisonment imposed for the violation.

    (iii) The person has successfully completed all conditions of probation or parole imposed for the violation.

    (b) The person's right to possess, use, transport, sell, purchase, carry, ship, receive, or distribute a firearm has been restored under section 4 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.424.

    (3) Except as provided in subsection (4), a person convicted of a felony shall not possess, use, transport, sell, carry, ship, or distribute ammunition in this state until the expiration of 3 years after all of the following circumstances exist:

    (a) The person has paid all fines imposed for the violation.

    (b) The person has served all terms of imprisonment imposed for the violation.

    (c) The person has successfully completed all conditions of probation or parole imposed for the violation.

    (4) A person convicted of a specified felony shall not possess, use, transport, sell, carry, ship, or distribute ammunition in this state until all of the following circumstances exist:

    (a) The expiration of 5 years after all of the following circumstances exist:

    (i) The person has paid all fines imposed for the violation.

    (ii) The person has served all terms of imprisonment imposed for the violation.

    (iii) The person has successfully completed all conditions of probation or parole imposed for the violation.

    (b) The person's right to possess, use, transport, sell, purchase, carry, ship, receive, or distribute ammunition has been restored under section 4 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.424.

    (5) A person who possesses, uses, transports, sells, purchases, carries, ships, receives, or distributes a firearm in violation of this section is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years or a fine of not more than $5,000.00, or both.

    (6) A person who possesses, uses, transports, sells, carries, ships, or distributes ammunition in violation of this section is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years or a fine of not more than $5,000.00, or both.

    (7) Any single criminal transaction where a person possesses, uses, transports, sells, carries, ships, or distributes ammunition in violation of this section, regardless of the amount of ammunition involved, constitutes 1 offense.

    (8) This section does not apply to a conviction that has been expunged or set aside, or for which the person has been pardoned, unless the expunction, order, or pardon expressly provides that the person shall not possess a firearm or ammunition.

    (9) As used in this section:

    (a) "Ammunition" means any projectile that, in its current state, may be expelled from a firearm by an explosive.

    (b) "Felony" means a violation of a law of this state, or of another state, or of the United States that is punishable by imprisonment for 4 years or more, or an attempt to violate such a law.

    (10) As used in subsections (2) and (4), "specified felony" means a felony in which 1 or more of the following circumstances exist:

    (a) An element of that felony is the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against the person or property of another, or that by its nature, involves a substantial risk that physical force against the person or property of another may be used in the course of committing the offense.

    (b) An element of that felony is the unlawful manufacture, possession, importation, exportation, distribution, or dispensing of a controlled substance.

    (c) An element of that felony is the unlawful possession or distribution of a firearm.

    (d) An element of that felony is the unlawful use of an explosive.

    (e) The felony is burglary of an occupied dwelling, or breaking and entering an occupied dwelling, or arson.


    History: Add. 1992, Act 217, Imd. Eff. Oct. 13, 1992 ;-- Am. 2014, Act 4, Eff. May 12, 2014
    Last edited by wrightme; 09-28-2014 at 03:57 PM.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    In addition, applicable federal statutes:
    18 USC 922
    (d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person
    (1) is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;

    This subsection shall not apply with respect to the sale or disposition of a firearm or ammunition to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector who pursuant to subsection (b) ofsection 925 of this chapter is not precluded from dealing in firearms or ammunition, or to a person who has been granted relief from disabilities pursuant to subsection (c) of section 925 of this chapter.
    18 USC 925

    (c) A person who is prohibited from possessing, shipping, transporting, or receiving firearms or ammunition may make application to the Attorney General for relief from the disabilities imposed by Federal laws with respect to the acquisition, receipt, transfer, shipment, transportation, or possession of firearms, and the Attorney General may grant such relief if it is established to his satisfaction that the circumstances regarding the disability, and the applicant’s record and reputation, are such that the applicant will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety and that the granting of the relief would not be contrary to the public interest. Any person whose application for relief from disabilities is denied by the Attorney General may file a petition with the United States district court for the district in which he resides for a judicial review of such denial. The court may in its discretion admit additional evidence where failure to do so would result in a miscarriage of justice. A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector conducting operations under this chapter, who makes application for relief from the disabilities incurred under this chapter, shall not be barred by such disability from further operations under his license pending final action on an application for relief filed pursuant to this section. Whenever the Attorney General grants relief to any person pursuant to this section he shall promptly publish in the Federal Register notice of such action, together with the reasons therefor.
    Unless you have that, what the state did is irrelevant to whether it is legal or illegal for you to own a firearm.

    And, should a gun shop do such, they are in violation of the above 18USC922(d)
    Last edited by wrightme; 09-28-2014 at 04:10 PM.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Here is the federal statute for ownership and purchase restrictions:
    18USC922

    (g) It shall be unlawful for any person
    (1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
    (2) who is a fugitive from justice;
    (3) who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));
    (4) who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution;
    (5) who, being an alien—
    (A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
    (B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(26)));
    (6) who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
    (7) who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his citizenship;
    (8) who is subject to a court order that—
    (A) was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had an opportunity to participate;
    (B) restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and
    (C)
    (i) includes a finding that such person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or
    (ii) by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury; or
    (9) who has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence,
    to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Find a good firearm attorney in Michigan and look at getting your rights restored. My understanding is it's not something that happens over time, but is a process you have to go through.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Can someone explain how i passed the background check and recieved my pistol permit then? Wouldnt they see my felonies

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanman View Post
    Can someone explain how i passed the background check and recieved my pistol permit then? Wouldnt they see my felonies
    Define "background check". Do you know exactly how/ what they looked at?

    Was it a local check? State check? Federal check? Of it was local and it occures in different state or even county it may not appear on their local system.
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Quote Originally Posted by vanman View Post
    Can someone explain how i passed the background check and recieved my pistol permit then? Wouldnt they see my felonies
    To answer that question, we would need to know the nature of the bg check they did. That is what we have been trying to share with you. Just getting that only satisfies state needs, not federal.


    The nature of your conviction is quite relevant. With that information, and the links we have presented to you, YOU have the information you need to use to find out.

    Read the statutes, state and federal. Check the nature of the offense you were convicted of, and how that specific conviction is seen by the state and federal firearms regulations, and by the items shown for right restoration.


    IOW, 'it all depends.' You have been given the information. We cannot use that information for you.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by vanman View Post
    Can someone explain how i passed the background check and recieved my pistol permit then? Wouldnt they see my felonies
    The police management of the pistol registration system in Michigan has been piss-poor in my experience, to the point where they have failed more than once to register the same handgun even though proper procedure was followed.

    It would not surprise me in the least if they missed something. Consult an attorney.

    Quote Originally Posted by vanman
    I have the purchase permit in hand. I could go to a store and walk out right now buying a gun in my name. I passed everything. Anybody a lawyer in the area i could email and maybe ask a few questions? I called michigan state police and is advice was go buy one and if you pass your check and walk out with one your all good. He said atf does the checks and thats federal so of you pass federal then you pass here in michigan.
    The problem here is that, if you are incorrect, and you attempt this, they might pick you up just for attempting to illegally purchase a handgun. Consult an attorney.
    Last edited by Evil Creamsicle; 09-29-2014 at 12:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vanman View Post
    I have the purchase permit in hand. I could go to a store and walk out right now buying a gun in my name. I passed everything. Anybody a lawyer in the area i could email and maybe ask a few questions? I called michigan state police and is advice was go buy one and if you pass your check and walk out with one your all good. He said atf does the checks and thats federal so of you pass federal then you pass here in michigan.
    Chances are good, that a lawyer isnt going to call you, don't sit by the phone. You're going to need to contact them. Go to Michigan Gun Owners, and sign up, you'll be able to access their Legal Beagle forum; attorneys have their contact info posted there.

    Quote Originally Posted by vanman View Post
    Can someone explain how i passed the background check and recieved my pistol permit then? Wouldnt they see my felonies
    Good question. Raises another good question..no, two....What is it that they are checking for in these LTP background checks, and why is that information not common knowledge around here?
    Last edited by Plan B; 09-29-2014 at 09:59 PM.

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