Tom Gresham and "Gun Talk"

WalkingWolf said:

The article is about permission slips, not constitutional carry.

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The article is, but Tom and Alan's comments clearly state their views.

WalkingWolf said:

The LGTB community got in people's face for years with their sexuality, even though they knew it offended people. Same for the civil rights movement. We will never get our RTKBA back by kissing arse, NEVER. In fact if we do not get it firmly implanted in case law, not legislative law, we will lose it forever the same as most of the world.

Some people think making rights popular by compromise will win the day. It never has worked! In most of the countries where guns are outlawed, gun control is popular. As soon as it is popular, and SCOTUS shifts direction guns owned by the public will be gone forever.

And we all can thank those popularity soldiers, more so than the antis.

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Great points.

My post was not suggesting we just kiss arse to get our rights back! I agree, assertive action is nessecary.

My point is simply that assertion AND tact are needed for this to proceed, not one or the other. Shove their sexuality in our face? Somewhat. But where the arguement started winning is when they started getting experts in the field and the media to talk about how God made them a certain way. (Funny, that liberal crowd suddenly talking about god...) they started winning when they started preaching about the bill of rights and god given right to marry.

That's because neither hiding in the closet NOR walking through macys with their ass chaps and strap on dildos worked.

It takes both assertion and tact, and if you want the MEDIA and SYSTEM on your side(which it was firmly NOT for gays in the 1980's), it's not gonna happen with alienating people.

Be assertive, fight for our rights, but a little tact could mean all the difference. Something far too many freedom-loving people such as myself many times forget.

Post Sandy Hook, Tom told his listeners to join groups like NRA, etc. Almost to the point of "shaming" those who didn't, that they weren't doing enough if they didn't.

The NRA took in close to 300 million dollars in 2013. What have they done with it???? Where are NRA sponsored lawsuits in CA., NY., CT., NJ., etc.?????????


I listened to most of his show again this weekend and more reinforcing "talk" of Permission slips and "Reciprocity". Makes me sick.


2nd Amendment and the 14th Amendment to reinforce it is ALL WE NEED!

Jeff. State said:

Post Sandy Hook, Tom told his listeners to join groups like NRA, etc. Almost to the point of "shaming" those who didn't, that they weren't doing enough if they didn't.


2nd Amendment and the 14th Amendment to reinforce it is ALL WE NEED!

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I mentioned it a Texas thread that we need rallies attended by thousands in every State at it's Capitol the same way we did after Sandy Hook.

Only this time with all attendees practicing PEACEFUL civil disobedience. OC in states that ban it CA./FL./etc., OC handguns in Texas, use magazines over 10/15 rds. in States that have illegaly "banned" them, etc. Inform the "authorities" passing the illegal "laws" and those who enforce them that they will no longer be recognized.

Pick a day spread the word from coast to coast and end the INFRINGEMENTS!

Jeff. State said:

Gil: Tom has Gottlieb on his show on a VERY regular basis. He was propping him up a couple months ago from criticism by Dudley Brown and leveling the same charges against Brown (in it for the $$$$$$) that have been said about gottlieb.

I am not comfortable with a National voice (Gresham) consistently talking of "National Reciprocity" in admiration and supporting callers when they say the same thing.

WE ALREADY HAVE NATIONAL RECIPROCITY.

"IT'S THE SECOND AMENDMENT, STUPID"


I have been wanting to call him about my concerns on this during his show. I was going to Sunday, but for 3 hours he took no calls as he talked to guest after guest at the "Gun Rights Policy Conference" regarding working WITHIN the system. It started ringing true as I listened to all of them that if we had ABSOLUTE Constitutional gun Rights they would be out of work and more importantly for them $$$$$$$$$$$$.

The NRA is the worst offender, how many tens or hundreds of millions have they taken in in the last couple years and WHERE are THEY getting these "laws" overturned?


"Reality", Gil? Reality is OC or CC based on the 2nd Amendment and NOT some permission slip handed out by Government.

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No one needs to be propped up against Dudley brown, brown is a damned fool

EMNofSeattle said:

No one needs to be propped up against Dudley brown, brown is a damned fool

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I agree with you on Brown.

It doesn't change the fact that what he said about Gottlieb/Manchin-Toomey was 100% correct. When Gottlieb is helping WRITE MORE "gun laws", he needs to be kicked to the curb.

But what happens????????????? Gottlieb gets propped up and his treachery is glossed over.

Tom and Gottlieb went on and on about Brown and "in it for the $$$$$", when that is exactly what Gottlieb does.

“A housewife and a cat will both chase mice out of the kitchen. But the cat wants more mice to come back.”

— Aaron Zelman

Sellout: JPFO to be handed off to SAF — unless we stop it
http://www.backwoodshome.com/blogs/ClaireWolfe/2014/08/22/sellout-jpfo-to-be-handed-off-to-saf/

Tom will continue to "Work within the system" and urge his listeners to as well, because The System "working" lines his pockets.

Jeff. State said:

"Shall NOT be infringed" TOM, That is all we need and should DEMAND!

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Well that's not the world we live in so ignoring them won't make them go away. Do you ignore NFA rules and make your own full auto, suppressors, and SBEs? Do you carry into a Federal building and tell them that they can't stop you?

Wishing won't make it so.

What have you done about it other than bitch about it on the Internet?

Phoenix David said:

Well that's not the world we live in so ignoring them won't make them go away. Do you ignore NFA rules and make your own full auto, suppressors, and SBEs? Do you carry into a Federal building and tell them that they can't stop you?

Wishing won't make it so.

What have you done about it other than bitch about it on the Internet?

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Bitching is doing something, even if it is just on the internet. So is carrying even if it is not part of a mass protest. All forms of expression to a good cause are important.

As far as doing this you describe above criminals do them everyday and most do not get caught. And if they do get caught it is usually plea bargained away. And some of our great wins have come at the hands of criminals IE US V Black.

Personally as far as full auto and suppressors I have no use for them, I do support those that do, or just want them.

For me getting everybody the right to carry is more important than overturning NFA. What good does a full auto do if you are not allowed to carry in the first place.

OK down off my soap box I was taking an opportunity to "bitch".

Phoenix David said:

Well that's not the world we live in so ignoring them won't make them go away. Do you ignore NFA rules and make your own full auto, suppressors, and SBEs? Do you carry into a Federal building and tell them that they can't stop you?

Wishing won't make it so.

What have you done about it other than bitch about it on the Internet?

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Well Phoenix David, I have made my suggestions of what should be done here, I spread the word with those I know. If I had the means/manufacturing skills, yes I would ignore NFA "laws". Full Auto weapons are exactly what the Second Amendment would protect for citizens/militia if IT wasn't "ignored" by the Government. You seem more bothered by citizens "ignoring" unconstitutional "laws" than the Govt. ignoring the Constitution.

I don't have 300+ million dollars brought in over the last year and a half or a Nationally broadcasted radio program to get the word out. OTHERS do and they insist on ignoring the FACT that we already have all we need in the Second Amendment and that all gunowners should take back what has been stolen from them, the absolute Right to keep and bear arms.

So David, you go ahead and enjoy "the world you live in" but don't expect others to.

Well another SHINING EXAMPLE of Tom's "respect" for the Second Amendment today. I didn't hear the entire show and maybe I should be glad I didn't as my post may have been much longer.


A man calls in about a trip through the South West he's going to take in the next couple weeks, and how he can carry hi 9mm handgun for protection. Tom tells him he's S.O.L. in Texas and then states he doesn't know about N.M. or Arizona. A CONSTITUITONAL CARRY STATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Completely let this guy down. For God sakes, I was hoping you were going to at least tell him that Arizona was a Constitutional Carry State, but YOU didn't.

More telling, he has Pete Brownell on. Tom points out that Pete is on "the Board" at the NRA and has "done great work" there. Pete Brownell a member of the Board of Directors at the NRA then states " there is all but one region now that has the right to carry a firearm, concealed carry, all but DC. And that's about to fall". Tom readily agreed and CONFIRMED Pete's statement.

Bull TOM! You continue to support blatantly FALSE statements!!!!! Ca., NY, MA, CT, NJ, on and on, anyone but the most connected or rural county residents cannot get CCW permission slips. An NRA board member seems to think the entire country other than DC has "the right to carry a firearm". IDIOT! I will NEVER buy from Brownells ever again after hearing the complete B.S. coming from Pete Brownell today.

BUT.............. Tom wasn't finished. A caller brought up buying a non serialized AR lower and "completing" it on his own. Tom was audibly disturbed at this and questioned the caller and his audience WHY would you really "need" a firearm by this method, NO SERIAL NUMBER. As diplomatically as possible Tom tried to shut down any unfinished lower possibilities and go with a respected MANUFACTURER. Tom knows where his bread is buttered and will overlook FEDERAL PAPERWORK trail to get his cut.


Every one of your shows Tom reveal your complicity with BIG money MFG's and the FAUX gun "Rights" organizations. And I will continue to call them out here. I hope YOU change your stripes and start an HONEST dialogue on your show regarding our GOD GIVEN RIGHT that is supposed to be protected by the Second Amendment.

Jeff. State said:

And it's only getting worse.................... Al


Go ahead and keep waiting for "the system" to work in your favor. Let me know how it turns out for your descendants years from now.

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Anyone who petitions the same gov't who violates your RKBA and hoping for a different result will learn the hard way.

This includes: legislators, executive branch agencies, and the judiciary. Hint: they all work for the same goal: to make the gov't stronger and stronger and not in a good way.

So what can we do? Well you can try to change the legislative, executive and judicial branches. And stock up on ammo. The founders clearly understood that our current government would not last forever.

And focus on the ammo part as a priority. Lets see...50 bucks to a political candidate or 50 bucks of more ammo....ammo wins. 10 pts for Gryfindor (sp?)

Just happened. Halfway through the second hour.

Tom cuts off a caller and comes to defense of money master Gottlieb (look up Merril mail marketing to see what I mean), and the completely ineffectual NRA who has virtually put nothing into defeating 594.

Tom tries to stick it to the caller by saying "what have you done". He's calling your stinking show Tom to get his voice heard and YOU cut him and what he had to say off!

Well, Tom just had a caller about CC permits. Tom just shored up his claim, and said he does not support CC permits, and that they should not exist.


Feel better about yourself now that you said it Tom?

Now back to the regular PROGRAMMING.

Jeff. State said:

Just happened. Halfway through the second hour.

Tom cuts off a caller and comes to defense of money master Gottlieb (look up Merril mail marketing to see what I mean), and the completely ineffectual NRA who has virtually put nothing into defeating 594.

Tom tries to stick it to the caller by saying "what have you done". He's calling your stinking show Tom to get his voice heard and YOU cut him and what he had to say off!

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So Tom: I didn't listen last Sunday, but I have a co-worker who listens to every single one of you shows through podcast. He comes in to work yesterday after listening to last Sundays show and says "Tom Gresham is the BIGGEST hypocrite I have ever heard".

Seems you had Go$$lieb/$AF on and YOU were "shooting from the balcony" as YOU accused a caller of, at the NRA being MIA on 594( "Where the HECK was the NRA"). My friend/coworker was beside himself describing YOU saying the same things about the NRA the caller did the week before that YOU chastised him for. By the way Tom, Alan Go$$lieb was MIA on 594 as well.


You know Tom, how about YOU stick to talking about guns. PERIOD. You obviously have the character of a Politician when it comes to discussing Freedom/2nd Amendment. You would have a great show if it was ONLY about guns, but YOUR credibility goes out the window on Gun Rights.

Hi Tom! Don't you feel special you have an entire thread dedicated to you from 1 dedicated fan? Hope your reading this Tom. Bye Tom!

Lol

Well Tom, you just couldn't help yourself ONCE AGAIN.


You had to start demonizing "some" open carriers and their methods or appearance. And that "public opinion" will ban OC, where those YOU demonize, exercise their RIGHTS.


Tom how about YOU start putting as much "concern" into THE SECOND AMENDMENT as YOU do with "PUBLIC OPINION"???????????


Get a SPINE Tom! Public Opinion MATTERS NOTHING in regards to INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!


If you continue to FAIL at recognizing "the Right to keep and bear arms, shall NOT be infringed", do US ALL a favor and quit talking about it!


Seriously YOUR lack of reverence for our ABSOLUTE Right under the 2nd is appalling.



ETA: Tom, When will YOU sir, stand up for our ABSOLUTE Right to keep and bear arms? Whether it is CA., NY., MA., NJ., TEXAS!!!!, etc?????????

One more troubling bit in your show today was in regards to the Remington Trigger issue. You "URGE" everyone to change theirs but wont go as far to say "If you don't, you or a loved one could die from a generations known Remington PROBLEM".

Just Tom "keepin it real" with the "Big" gun MFGs. and CYA without admitting fault.

How many years did YOU know about Remingtons problem trigger Tom?????? Before Barbara Barber accidently shot her son in 2000, surely before Jasmine Thar was killed by a Remington 700 on Dec 23. 2011 (Merry Christmas)?


Tom, how many times over the past DECADES have YOU sir warned your readers and Listeners about Reminton's "trigger issues"??????????

BTW, I only caught 45 min. total of your show, I'm sure there were more offenses. It's all about the Benjamins, isn't it Tom?????

Jeff. State said:

Well Tom, you just couldn't help yourself ONCE AGAIN.


You had to start demonizing "some" open carriers and their methods or appearance. And that "public opinion" will ban OC, where those YOU demonize, exercise their RIGHTS.


Tom how about YOU start putting as much "concern" into THE SECOND AMENDMENT as YOU do with "PUBLIC OPINION"???????????


Get a SPINE Tom! Public Opinion MATTERS NOTHING in regards to INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!


If you continue to FAIL at recognizing "the Right to keep and bear arms, shall NOT be infringed", do US ALL a favor and quit talking about it!


Seriously YOUR lack of reverence for our ABSOLUTE Right under the 2nd is appalling.



ETA: Tom, When will YOU sir, stand up for our ABSOLUTE Right to keep and bear arms? Whether it is CA., NY., MA., NJ., TEXAS!!!!, etc?????????

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I didn't listen to the show, nor do I care much, but do you really think public opinion matters NOTHING?

SHOULD it? No way. But PUBLIC are the ones that have voted our rights away one bit at a time. I would think an informed open carrier will carefully consider how he acts in public and if he will further gun rights or inhibit them.

Could go both ways, I understand that. Sometimes a little shock is ok. But I think it actually sets RKBA back a LONG ways to say public opinion doesn't matter. Public opinion is the entire reason our rights have been infringed on. I sure hope we care to turn public opinion on our side. The gay rights movement has done a textbook job of this. I think as gun owners, we can too.

J_dazzle23 said:

I didn't listen to the show, nor do I care much, but do you really think public opinion matters NOTHING?

SHOULD it? No way. But PUBLIC are the ones that have voted our rights away one bit at a time. I would think an informed open carrier will carefully consider how he acts in public and if he will further gun rights or inhibit them.

Could go both ways, I understand that. Sometimes a little shock is ok. But I think it actually sets RKBA back a LONG ways to say public opinion doesn't matter. Public opinion is the entire reason our rights have been infringed on. I sure hope we care to turn public opinion on our side. The gay rights movement has done a textbook job of this. I think as gun owners, we can too.

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The public can only "vote away" what WE do not DEFEND! American citizens choose to roll over to UNCONSTITUTIONAL "laws" either voted in or legislatively enacted ie: Ronald Reagan BANNING OC in California in the 60s.

Let the "public" vote away minority or "gay" rights and see what THEY do in response.

Gun owners ROLL OVER, period. If there was any kind of ACTUAL organized group defending the 2nd the way it should be, the Government would yield. But there Isn't, there are only PRETENDERS.

Re: the "gay rights movement" and public opinion. They are just as sick and in your face as they have ever been, they haven't done anything different other than WAIT. I would argue the change in atmosphere on "gay rights" is due to America's cultural journey down the road to Sodom and Gomorrah along with covering up a majority that still exists in opposition to them.

It's time for any further INFRINGEMENTS to be immediately defied openly by all. As well as taking back our freedoms in States that have Infringed ie; Kalifornia.