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Thread: Taken by Force: Solution - A "No-Overkill" rule

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    Taken by Force: Solution - A "No-Overkill" rule

    This Style Weekly Back Page commentary is from a person who has witnessed police overkill in Henrico county.

    We donít need our police forces treating the citizenry like domestic terrorist threats. Why a "no-overkill rule" is necessary.
    Recently I stepped out of my house in Henrico County to find 10 police cars parked on a side street. What, might you ask, was the incident that necessitated such a massive police presence? Was it a raid on a meth lab? A madman taking shots from his attack window? A shootout between rival gangs?

    Nope. These Henrico police officers were responding to a domestic violence event. I watched from my window while they used a battering ram to break down the back door of the house next to me. One of them had a Taser at the ready, and four or five of them had their guns drawn and held up.

    ...

    Police, ideally speaking, are meant to be different. Unless they're getting shot at by some murderous lunatic, they're supposed to view the public ó even domestic abusers ó not as combatants, but as people to whom they ultimately are subordinate.

    ...

    We don't need our police forces treating the citizenry like domestic terrorist threats. It's offensive to our civil autonomy and an indignity visited upon us by those who are supposed to be serving us.

    I have a challenge for all police forces in the area: Institute a no-overkill rule within your departments. If a police officer cannot actively contribute to a situation, he or she must move on ó to a crime-ridden area where his or her presence is badly needed, say, instead of hanging around talking with other officers. If a crime involves a single person who isn't known to be armed and dangerous, don't send an entire squadron of police cars to crowd our streets and give the impression of an occupying force. If this results in too many police officers with too much time on their hands, you might be ready to consider some downsizing.
    Other than the edit that I provided, the above ought to apply to all who carry for their own security.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    First, let me emphatically say I am NOT on the side of overwhelming force to serve a parking ticket.

    The solution is for someone to figure out how to tell when a person is not dangerous.* Please keep in mind that the most important part of solving that conundrum is that it must assure that all the cops go home in at least as good condition as when they reported for the start of their shift. Then there is the difficulty I believe will be encountered in making the general population believe the cops have agreed to stop playing Johnny Rambo.

    While all this is being worked out, it might be of some help if cops started talking with people instead of using their great-big-outdoor-voice-of-authority to yell all the time.

    stay safe.

    * - I am not going to ask that some magic potion be able to tell when a person is not armed, because there is just no way someone can be unarmed. Even if they have no firearm and no knife and no flamethrower and no kitchen soup ladle there are ways to be armed.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    First, let me emphatically say I am NOT on the side of overwhelming force to serve a parking ticket.

    The solution is for someone to figure out how to tell when a person is not dangerous.* Please keep in mind that the most important part of solving that conundrum is that it must assure that all the cops go home in at least as good condition as when they reported for the start of their shift. Then there is the difficulty I believe will be encountered in making the general population believe the cops have agreed to stop playing Johnny Rambo.

    While all this is being worked out, it might be of some help if cops started talking with people instead of using their great-big-outdoor-voice-of-authority to yell all the time.

    stay safe.

    * - I am not going to ask that some magic potion be able to tell when a person is not armed, because there is just no way someone can be unarmed. Even if they have no firearm and no knife and no flamethrower and no kitchen soup ladle there are ways to be armed.
    Cops can use any voice that they want .. it will have no effect on me. I don't want to talk to them in any event. Even if I witness a crime, I would not talk to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Cops can use any voice that they want .. it will have no effect on me. I don't want to talk to them in any event. Even if I witness a crime, I would not talk to them.
    Please feel free to adopt the same attitude to the OCDO Virginia threads.

    Nobody will miss your spews.

    NOBODY !

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    Nobody will miss your spews.

    NOBODY !


    I'll dance to that Taz!

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Cops can use any voice that they want .. it will have no effect on me. I don't want to talk to them in any event. Even if I witness a crime, I would not talk to them.
    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    Please feel free to adopt the same attitude to the OCDO Virginia threads.

    Nobody will miss your spews.

    NOBODY !
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post


    I'll dance to that Taz!
    David -

    The offer of a bus ticket and a meal and overnight lodging to have you attend our Lobby Day in January still stands. It would be such a blessing to have you come down and show us backwoods yahoos how things ought to be done.

    Why do you refuse the offer? Is it because two people say they don't like you? They have never met you, and I'm sure that once they get face to face with you they would change their opinion.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    First, let me emphatically say I am NOT on the side of overwhelming force to serve a parking ticket.

    The solution is for someone to figure out how to tell when a person is not dangerous.*

    * - I am not going to ask that some magic potion be able to tell when a person is not armed, because there is just no way someone can be unarmed. Even if they have no firearm and no knife and no flamethrower and no kitchen soup ladle there are ways to be armed.
    This is easy, that person is not dangerous because they do not do anything threatening/dangerous. Cops must react, with unfortunate outcomes sometimes (see that thing about too much liberty below this post). It is all this proactive crap that is the crux of the problem(s) with modern LE...many of we here on OCDO complain about this frequently.

    Then there is this little gem:
    Please keep in mind that the most important part of solving that conundrum is that it must assure that all the cops go home in at least as good condition as when they reported for the start of their shift.
    Why should a cop, or cops, be provided this courtesy when it is he, or they, that elevate the risk that they may not be so fortunate as to "go home in at least as good condition as when they reported for the start of their shift?" Hmm?

    Cops shoot, and sometimes kill, innocent people and are not held to account personally. These unfortunate incidents are chalked up to confusion, poor training, poor communication, unfounded preconceived notions, whatever.

    When cops use their heads more than their "great-big-outdoor-voice-of-authority" then they may, just maybe, realize that there really are not that many dangerous people that they may encounter on any given shift.

    YMMV
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    The solution is for someone to figure out how to tell when a person is not dangerous.
    Perhaps the relevant question is, what should the default presumption for law enforcement be for any encounter with their employer, the citizen taxpayer?

    I suppose most anyone is potentially dangerous, but treating all persons that way leads to distrust and worse.

    The better way would be to treat persons in these encounters with respect, and only if a person is presently dangerous should a prudent officer act accordingly.

    "Be Safe" cuts both ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post


    I'll dance to that Taz!
    Ta Da Da Ta Da ! The sticker brigade is on the march ! Hooray !

    I give ya something ... you are consistent. Consistently boring.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 10-01-2014 at 07:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    Please feel free to adopt the same attitude to the OCDO Virginia threads.

    Nobody will miss your spews.

    NOBODY !
    Awesome!

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    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    David -

    The offer of a bus ticket and a meal and overnight lodging to have you attend our Lobby Day in January still stands. It would be such a blessing to have you come down and show us backwoods yahoos how things ought to be done.

    Why do you refuse the offer? Is it because two people say they don't like you? They have never met you, and I'm sure that once they get face to face with you they would change their opinion.

    stay safe.
    I don't think it's the free night's lodging and meal you are offering that is preventing him from coming here, more likely the realization that upon actually doing things the way they ought to be done that he would most likely have several more nights and meals in the Commonwealth

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