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Thread: Man shoots down neighbors drone

  1. #1
    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
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    Man shoots down neighbors drone

    http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2014/10/...ntcmp=features



    I have been waiting for someone to do this exact thing, I am just surprised it took this long.

    Why did the guy get caught? Most likely he answered his door when the police knocked on it and he talked with them. MORON.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    He might be an idiot, but then most criminals are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    He might be an idiot, but then most criminals are.
    Police officers went to the home of Percenti, questioned him about the shooting and discovered the shotgun that was used in the drone attack. from link of 1st post

    A total idiot. If he would have just told them to get off his land, he would have been fine. Instead, he wants to tell his story. That's what reddit is for....lol

    But if it was over his land, I don't see a problem.

    Let the games begin !

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    My response would be "Someone was invading my privacy".
    Last edited by MasterGadgets; 10-02-2014 at 11:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterGadgets View Post
    My response would be "Someone was invading my privacy".
    Proper response is to say "get off my land" and slam the door in their face (if you were foolish enough to open your door).

  6. #6
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Exactly how much airspace above your property is yours?
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    Enough to maintain your privacy.

    Very interesting questions, which I thought I’d just flag here now. (Note that the Restatement is a distillation of the common-law rules, not a statute; the case law is thus free to evolve by analogy, as incidents involving drones arise.) I’m delighted to say, though, that Prof. Michael Froomkin (Miami) will be guest-blogging about these very issues today or Friday; he is the co-author of a new article that is all about Self-Defense Against Robots.

    http://ssrn.com/abstract=2504325
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/v...ighbors-drone/
    Last edited by Nightmare; 10-03-2014 at 06:19 AM.
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  8. #8
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    That's not a good answer. With the right equipment, a person could take hi-res photos of your property from above it as far away as space.

    Also, this is a trespass matter, not a privacy matter. I could stand in the street outside your home and take pictures of it and you'd have no legal recourse.

    IMO as technology that allows "over the fence" observation becomes more prevalent (it's been available much time, people just didn't use it so frequently), people would be much better off finding ways to maintain privacy without relying on being able to interfere with aerial photo-taking machines than trying to find ways to interfere with aerial photo-taking machines (such as shotgunning them).
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    It wasn't even over his property. Neighbor was using it to view construction progress.
    http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2014/10/...cmp=latestnews

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    Was in range of #2 magnum load...


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  11. #11
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Let's see below 400 feet, and in range of a shotgun, yet supposedly taking pictures of another property. Looks like a peeping tom, hopefully the jury has some commons sense.

    I would have done the same thing, and then KMBMS.

    The supreme court has already upheld a right to privacy, using drones to spy on people without a court order should not be tolerated. The police arrested the wrong person.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 10-03-2014 at 09:12 AM.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    quote n 1946 the Supreme Court acknowledged that the air had become a “public highway,” but a landowner still had dominion over “at least as much of the space above the ground as he can occupy or use in connection with the land.” The upward boundaries of private property may be changing. The federal government is considering lowering the floor of navigable airspace below 500 feet to accommodate surveillance drones, which sometimes travel at lower altitudes. unquote

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...o_you_own.html

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 10-03-2014 at 10:23 AM.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    quote n 1946 the Supreme Court acknowledged that the air had become a “public highway,” but a landowner still had dominion over “at least as much of the space above the ground as he can occupy or use in connection with the land.” The upward boundaries of private property may be changing. The federal government is considering lowering the floor of navigable airspace below 500 feet to accommodate surveillance drones, which sometimes travel at lower altitudes. unquote

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...o_you_own.html

    ipse
    The drone owner admitted that the drone was not being used to transport, it was being used to take photos. I wonder if he even had permission for the construction site. Bet if they examined his computer they would find images of people's private lives.

    I will have to dig but I believe the courts have upheld that a drone cannot be used for spying without a warrant. And then their is the right to privacy, the drone was outfitted with a camera it was not being used for transportation(public highway). If it is possible the police should have examined the memory on the drone for pictures of the construction. Even then a homeowner does not know what pictures are being taken of. If his property was fenced and his wife or GF was sunbathing, he had every right to gun it down.

    I wrote a letter to google to blur my property on satellite images. I am not the type person who likes spying for any purpose. If he could reach it with a shotgun it was too close. If he had shot it with a rifle I would think that the drone owner might have a case, but the report clearly said shotgun.
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    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
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    About three months ago I noticed a drone move over my backyard by the sound of its quad rotors. It is the first time I have ever seen one live and my best guess is it was up several hundred feet. The drone stayed in place over me, and I assume it was to watch me work on my new deck attached to my out building.

    I live within city limits and its a subdivision, so by law discharging a weapon would be illegal except in the usual defense exceptions. After staring at this drone for a half a minute or so, I extended both middle fingers up at it and after a minute of holding my fingers in this position, the drone flew off.

    I have never seen this drone or any other drone again. It really irritated me that this happened and this operator should be thankful that I don't know who he is.

    I sure miss the old days before drones, smart phones, cameras everywhere, and etc. Just no privacy anymore.

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    Regular Member waskel's Avatar
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    I would have tried to follow it home.
    Han shot first.

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    IDK guys. I think that in order to reasonably expect privacy, you should make a reasonably effective effort to provide yourself privacy, for instance you couldn't walk down the street topless telling everyone to avert their eyes or they're invading your privacy. A violation would occur if someone intentionally overcame that normally effective barrier providing your privacy, for instance peeping through a window. We may very well be approaching an era where having a simple fence can't be considered a reasonable privacy effort. Photos of your back yard, for instance, could very easily be taken incidentally to normal drone operation in the neighborhood. To expect privacy from aerial photography I think you should make a reasonably effective effort to provide yourself privacy from aerial photography. Only if the aerial photo-taking device were used to intentionally overcome your privacy efforts would I think you were being violated and justified in taking physically damaging action against the device.

    I think a slew of technology could be used and developed to help provide privacy from drones without having to resort to physical enclosure, or taking damaging action against the drone.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    IDK guys. I think that in order to reasonably expect privacy, you should make a reasonably effective effort to provide yourself privacy, for instance you couldn't walk down the street topless telling everyone to avert their eyes or they're invading your privacy. A violation would occur if someone intentionally overcame that normally effective barrier providing your privacy, for instance peeping through a window. We may very well be approaching an era where having a simple fence can't be considered a reasonable privacy effort. Photos of your back yard, for instance, could very easily be taken incidentally to normal drone operation in the neighborhood. To expect privacy from aerial photography I think you should make a reasonably effective effort to provide yourself privacy from aerial photography. Only if the aerial photo-taking device were used to intentionally overcome your privacy efforts would I think you were being violated and justified in taking physically damaging action against the device.

    I think a slew of technology could be used and developed to help provide privacy from drones without having to resort to physical enclosure, or taking damaging action against the drone.
    Using a device to get around privacy barriers, falls into the reasonable expectation of privacy. Using a drone for sneak and peak on private property is about the same as peeking through windows.
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  18. #18
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Using a device to get around privacy barriers, falls into the reasonable expectation of privacy. Using a drone for sneak and peak on private property is about the same as peeking through windows.
    In that case you would need to prove intent, though. Shoot first and sort it out later wouldn't/shouldn't fly. Pun intended.

    Edit: the difference is that in the case of a window peeper the intent is reasonably clear, in the case of a drone JTS not
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 10-03-2014 at 09:15 PM.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    In that case you would need to prove intent, though. Shoot first and sort it out later wouldn't/shouldn't fly. Pun intended.

    Edit: the difference is that in the case of a window peeper the intent is reasonably clear, in the case of a drone JTS not
    If it is low enough to be hit by a shotgun, it is there to spy, no other reason. That is why the police are not allowed to do it without a warrant.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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  20. #20
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    If it is low enough to be hit by a shotgun, it is there to spy, no other reason. That is why the police are not allowed to do it without a warrant.
    I respectfully disagree on both fronts...

    As far as recreational flying goes, there are plenty of reasons to be flying around "within shotgun range" and in fact many less expensive drones may not even be capable of making it out of shotgun range. It isn't safe or reasonable at all to assume it's there to spy. With civilian use, there is an ever-expanding set of possible uses, or someone could by flying it for no other reason than to fly it. Drones are not just spy-things... Being easily adapted for the purpose doesn't make it the reason for development or the only possible use.

    As for police, in contrast, it is safe to assume that if police are flying a drone it's for police business, which can be reasonably assumed to be one of a limited set of activities, such as surveillance. If police wanted to go fly a drone for recreational purposes at the park I'd say that's a gross misuse of public resources but I don't think a warrant would be required...

    I would encourage you all to go look around Youtube and other places for neat and fun things that are done with drones. They are not simply spy-things.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    I respectfully disagree on both fronts...

    As far as recreational flying goes, there are plenty of reasons to be flying around "within shotgun range" and in fact many less expensive drones may not even be capable of making it out of shotgun range. It isn't safe or reasonable at all to assume it's there to spy. With civilian use, there is an ever-expanding set of possible uses, or someone could by flying it for no other reason than to fly it. Drones are not just spy-things... Being easily adapted for the purpose doesn't make it the reason for development or the only possible use.

    As for police, in contrast, it is safe to assume that if police are flying a drone it's for police business, which can be reasonably assumed to be one of a limited set of activities, such as surveillance. If police wanted to go fly a drone for recreational purposes at the park I'd say that's a gross misuse of public resources but I don't think a warrant would be required...

    I would encourage you all to go look around Youtube and other places for neat and fun things that are done with drones. They are not simply spy-things.
    surely, you are not serious...after reading all the incidents over the years where LE have abused citizens rights and so forth...you truly believe they wouldn't abuse this technology to it max?

    like other of your thought processes reflected in your postings you appear to suffer from significant case(s) of naivety and an inability to associate critical thinking reality as it is being brought to you by others on issues affecting everyone's rights.

    ipse
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    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

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  22. #22
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    surely, you are not serious...after reading all the incidents over the years where LE have abused citizens rights and so forth...you truly believe they wouldn't abuse this technology to it max?

    like other of your thought processes reflected in your postings you appear to suffer from significant case(s) of naivety and an inability to associate critical thinking reality as it is being brought to you by others on issues affecting everyone's rights.

    ipse
    Or maybe like your other posts, this one is reflective of your lacking reading comprehension capabilities.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The drone owner admitted that the drone was not being used to transport, it was being used to take photos. I wonder if he even had permission for the construction site. Bet if they examined his computer they would find images of people's private lives.

    I will have to dig but I believe the courts have upheld that a drone cannot be used for spying without a warrant. And then their is the right to privacy, the drone was outfitted with a camera it was not being used for transportation(public highway). If it is possible the police should have examined the memory on the drone for pictures of the construction. Even then a homeowner does not know what pictures are being taken of. If his property was fenced and his wife or GF was sunbathing, he had every right to gun it down.

    I wrote a letter to google to blur my property on satellite images. I am not the type person who likes spying for any purpose. If he could reach it with a shotgun it was too close. If he had shot it with a rifle I would think that the drone owner might have a case, but the report clearly said shotgun.
    I do not see how any of that has anything whatsoever to do with a third party shooting it down.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    The restrictions apply mostly to government.

    If the guy climbed a tree to look into a neighbors yard should the guy shoot the neighbor?


    Not disagreeing that the drone user was a possible jerk , not minding his own business, just trying to think of it in another way.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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  25. #25
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    The restrictions apply mostly to government.

    If the guy climbed a tree to look into a neighbors yard should the guy shoot the neighbor?


    Not disagreeing that the drone user was a possible jerk , not minding his own business, just trying to think of it in another way.
    Then the person in the tree can be reported as a peeping tom. It is illegal to peek into private areas of property. I have gone through great efforts to make my property private, and not visible by pedestrian traffic. Not to mention most of my neighbors have children. There is no legitimate reason to be peeking onto private property with any device.

    There are plenty of places to fly drones that do not intrude on private property. I have not had it happen, but I did make complaints to google and mapquest on satellite images of my neighbors children playing. They blurred the images. I see a drone from my window on my property it is fair game, I just will not talk to police and employ SSS.

    BTW there is a sporting club in PA that has shot down four drones with no arrests. We will have to see how the animal rights group fares in civil court.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 10-04-2014 at 11:53 AM.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
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