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Thread: Michael Paul Williams takes a broad swipe at OC: deems it "traumatizing"

  1. #1
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Michael Paul Williams takes a broad swipe at OC: deems it "traumatizing"

    Once again, Jason Spitzer is on the prowl, with his open carry of long guns. Yet, Michael Paul William takes the opportunity to criticize the entire spectrum of Open-Carry. How would you best respond to his criticisms?

    Creighton Court 'open carry' gun march off target
    Jason Spitzer of Chesterfield County, the organizer of the group, says he expects about five people will participate in Saturday’s event, in which they will carry unloaded “long guns” — it’s illegal to tote a loaded rifle or shotgun in the city — and distribute information leaflets.

    “We spread constitutional awareness to any and all citizens or people that are willing to listen, not just about firearms but all rights,” he said.

    If anyone is intimidated, he said, “then come talk to us.”

    “Me personally, I’m not going to walk into Creighton Court. And that is not because of the area. But we do not want to push the boundaries” of trespassing laws, he said.

    ...

    You could say the same thing about Creighton Court, a violence-scarred community whose children and elderly residents could do without the trauma of seeing strange men walking the street with conspicuous firearms. When Spitzer and two other men marched to the edge of the neighborhood two weeks ago, they were greeted by police who’d been summoned.

    “A lot of people, they’re not used to seeing big rifles like that,” an officer told him in an exchange Spitzer posted on YouTube. “The police, we don’t even carry around rifles and stuff like that. We just carry around a sidearm. ... When you pull out rifles and stuff, people kind of get alarmed.”

    They were warned by an officer that someone might take their demonstration the wrong way — a point reinforced by Andrew Goddard, legislative director for the Virginia Center for Public Safety.

    Goddard, whose son Colin is a survivor of the Virginia Tech shootings, argues that there are more effective ways to educate people about their rights, and wonders if these marches aren’t about intimidation.

    “The open-carry movement is beginning to spread and is getting bolder about where they carry their weapons,” he said. “There have been numerous cases where people openly exhibit military-style rifles in public areas, like grocery stores, coffee shops and on public streets such as Cary Street. I think this is a very dangerous trend that needs to be dealt with before it becomes more widespread.

    ...

    Goddard argues that such demonstrations should be given greater scrutiny in light of state laws governing disorderly conduct — specifically a provision that deems one guilty of that offense if he, “with the intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof,” engages in public conduct “having a direct tendency to cause acts of violence by the person or persons at whom, individually, such conduct is directed.”

    ...

    Spitzer, 26, says he does not see the group’s toting of long guns as a provocation of an unsuspecting community.

    “What’s the difference between seeing an armed citizen walking down the street, open carry, and a police officer?” he asked.

    That’s a difference that should not require explaining, in no small part because, as the officer pointed out in his encounter with Spitzer and associates, police tend to carry sidearms, not long guns.

    Yes, recent high-profile police shootings of unarmed black men are cause for grave concern, if not outright consternation. But generally, when we see someone in uniform, we know who we’re dealing with. Divining the intentions of a gun-carrying stranger is more difficult — Second Amendment champion or mass shooter? Such displays can be unsettling, if not downright disruptive.
    Note the last quoted paragraph. It's okay for "The Only Ones" to be heavily armed, because "we know who we’re dealing with" ... seeing anyone else is disruptive.

    Sounds prejudiced, doesn't it?
    Last edited by Repeater; 10-03-2014 at 01:26 PM. Reason: Added facebook link

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    How about we start here: "You could say the same thing about Creighton Court, a violence-scarred community whose children and elderly residents could do without the trauma of seeing strange men walking the street with conspicuous firearms."

    Is the trauma the residents could do without greater or lesser than the trauma they already regularly experience on seeing strange men walking the streets shooting towards other people and frequently hitting innocent infants and children? Of course, those people often have the common decency to hide their handguns in their waistband and their long guns on the floor of their automobile until they start shooting.

    Hey! A thought just struck me (and yes, it hurt!) - strange men openly carrying long guns which give you the opportunity to see if their behavior begins to indicate they are about to start shooting might actually be safer than strange men who suddenly pop up from the floorboards with long guns already blazing. That split second might be enough to duck for cover or otherwise get out of the line of fire.

    On a separate note - has anyone else ever noticed that most of the time when a person is identified by their first, middle, and last name they are either someone who has been arrested or someone whose only value to society is to provide momentary entertainment?

    stay safe.
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    "don't come home right now, there are gunshots everywhere"....


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    hmmm

    Once again with unloaded weapons here and there. Displayed unloaded weapons, seems odd unless you are trying to purchse something or sell them. I need to know long gun carry laws in the surrounding counties and cities as it pertains to traveling in an automobile. Im serious, I know we arent supposed to talk long gun carry but this topic is breached and interlocked here. So can you have a loaded 12 ga or AR in a vehicle? Does it have to be in the open? What if you step out of vehicle with it loaded and slung? All the laws I can find direct me to hunting ordinances. Then I find a liitle that oks higher capacity magazines with chp for handguns. If its too much on here, Id like to be educated at the picnic.
    Last edited by thedevilrobyjohn; 10-03-2014 at 03:17 PM. Reason: im stupid
    If you can not move at 1100 fps, then pass me by.

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    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedevilrobyjohn View Post
    Once again with unloaded weapons here and there. Displayed unloaded weapons, seems odd unless you are trying to purchse something or sell them. I need to know long gun carry laws in the surrounding counties and cities as it pertains to traveling in an automobile. Im serious, I know we arent supposed to talk long gun carry but this topic is breached and interlocked here. So can you have a loaded 12 ga or AR in a vehicle? Does it have to be in the open? What if you step out of vehicle with it loaded and slung? All the laws I can find direct me to hunting ordinances. Then I find a liitle that oks higher capacity magazines with chp for handguns. If its too much on here, Id like to be educated at the picnic.
    § 15.2-915.2 mentions loaded long guns in vehicles and states that individual counties and cities can introduce an ordinance making them illegal. It also goes on to say that
    No ordinance adopted pursuant to this section shall be enforceable unless the governing body adopting such ordinance so notifies the Director of the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries by registered mail prior to May 1 of the year in which such ordinance is to take effect
    so I went to the DGIF website and found this

    Local Firearms Ordinances, Laws, and Regulations

    take a look at each of the listed areas of Virginia and the numbers next to them, the numbers refer to the restrictions in that jurisdiction. Yes a lot of them refer to hunting but buried in there are other restrictions.

    With regard to vehicles and loaded long guns, look for numbers

    19. It is unlawful to transport, possess or carry a loaded rifle in any vehicle while on the road from October 1 through February 15
    I can't find any listed under 19

    23. It is unlawful to transport, possess, or carry a loaded shotgun or loaded rifle in any vehicle on any public street, road, or highway within the county during the time between sunset and sunrise.
    Goochland is the only one I can see listed under 23

    34. It is unlawful to transport or possess a loaded shotgun or rifle in a vehicle on a road during open deer season.
    Orange is the only one I can see listed under 34

    54. It is unlawful to transport, possess, or carry a loaded rifle or shotgun in any vehicle on any public street, road or highway.
    but wouldn't you just know it, the most restrictive of them all, number 54 I found the following counties and cities

    Albermarle
    Chesterfield
    Clarke
    Culpeper
    Danville
    Fauquier
    Fredericksburg (city)
    James City
    King George
    Loudoun
    Madison
    New Kent
    Northumberland
    Petersburg
    Richmond (city)
    Roanoke
    Surry
    Warren
    Williamsburg
    Last edited by scouser; 10-03-2014 at 05:08 PM. Reason: formatting

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    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    § 15.2-915.2 mentions loaded long guns in vehicles and states that individual counties and cities can introduce an ordinance making them illegal. It also goes on to say that so I went to the DGIF website and found this

    Local Firearms Ordinances, Laws, and Regulations

    take a look at each of the listed areas of Virginia and the numbers next to them, the numbers refer to the restrictions in that jurisdiction. Yes a lot of them refer to hunting but buried in there are other restrictions.

    With regard to vehicles and loaded long guns, look for numbers



    I can't find any listed under 19



    Goochland is the only one I can see listed under 23



    Orange is the only one I can see listed under 34



    but wouldn't you just know it, the most restrictive of them all, number 54 I found the following counties and cities

    Albermarle
    Chesterfield
    Clarke
    Culpeper
    Danville
    Fauquier
    Fredericksburg (city)
    James City
    King George
    Loudoun
    Madison
    New Kent
    Northumberland
    Petersburg
    Richmond (city)
    Roanoke
    Surry
    Warren
    Williamsburg
    thank you sir, for some reason I thought I had read about chp exemption, maybe that only pertains to capacity. 590 goes up and saiga comes out. magazine loaded but out.
    If you can not move at 1100 fps, then pass me by.

  7. #7
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedevilrobyjohn View Post
    thank you sir, for some reason I thought I had read about chp exemption, maybe that only pertains to capacity. 590 goes up and saiga comes out. magazine loaded but out.
    Va. Code Ann. § 18.2-287.4

    Restriction only in Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, or Virginia Beach or in the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, or Prince William and yes a CHP provides exemption.
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