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Thread: Case Closed: FBI Says 9mm Is The Best Pistol Round

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    Case Closed: FBI Says 9mm Is The Best Pistol Round

    A new study from the FBI’s Training Division shows that overall, the 9mm Luger pistol round is the best option for law enforcement handguns, recommending departments shouldn’t switch their side arms to larger rounds considered by many to be more lethal.

    Based in a combination of factors, including so-called “stopping power,” weight and availability, the FBI study shows that the 9mm round penetrates far enough, allows for shooters to carry more rounds, and is more widely available and less expensive than alternative rounds like the .45 ACP or .40 Smith & Wesson. The study shows most law enforcement shootings result in only about 30 percent of the rounds hitting their target.
    http://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/art....6nBVYQTi.dpbs
    They should ask their own HRT guys why they carry 45 ACP, I say they have come full circle now. The FBI abandoned the 9mm specifically because it failed so miserably in a major gunfight in 1986.
    Last edited by zack991; 10-04-2014 at 12:35 PM.
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    I doubt the 9mm failed in the gun fight ... likely they failed and blamed it on something else...

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    They're flat out wrong. 9mm is not the best pistol round. It's alright and does what it's supposed to do, but I'll never own one. Considering the FBI are horribly inaccurate in gunfights, clearly capacity was the main factor.
    Last edited by The Truth; 10-04-2014 at 12:38 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
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    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Regular Member XD40sc's Avatar
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    It is not the size of the hole, but where the hole is installed in the bad guy that counts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    They're flat out wrong. 9mm is not the best pistol round. It's alright and does what it's supposed to do, but I'll never own one. Considering the FBI are horribly inaccurate in gunfights, clearly capacity was the main factor.
    If it was not for the 9mm having JHP's on the market, it would be a horrible SD round. I have personally seen its piss poor effectiveness overseas, the 9mm blows as a FMJ. Unlike a 230 grain ball round it will put you down and even better as a JHP. I was an Infantryman and I am certainly no SF guy. Yet the guys I ran into overseas who were, not a single one carried a 9mm.
    Last edited by zack991; 10-04-2014 at 12:46 PM.
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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    The worst thing the FBI ever did was stop using 10mm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    The worst thing the FBI ever did was stop using 10mm.
    I LOVE the ten MM round. I want a glock 20 for hunting and backpacking for a bear gun. It would work like a charm.

    I hate when someone says "best caliber" for handguns. It's not like rifles where I can specifically point out why a 7mm is going to be a farther reaching out round with a better ballistics coefficient than, say, a 30-06. Even then, every caliber should be understood as "the right round for a specific situation"

    For myself, I, after carrying all of the big three, have settled on the 9mm due to ammo capacity, but mostly due to the fact that as a college student with limited income, 9mm is the cheapest round to shoot. I enjoy shooting, and I also believe it's better to train with a possibly sub-par round than be untrained with a different one. I understand the idea of practicing with one caliber and carrying another, but again, I just don't have the income to expand the arsenal. so for MY purpose, I carry a 9mm with 147g jhp's. for someone else, like an LEO or any of you guys, the tool for the job may be a .45 or a 357 sig. I can't stand the idea that there is one SINGLE perfect round. Everybody knows the best round is a howitzer

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_dazzle23 View Post
    I LOVE the ten MM round. I want a glock 20 for hunting and backpacking for a bear gun. It would work like a charm.

    I hate when someone says "best caliber" for handguns. It's not like rifles where I can specifically point out why a 7mm is going to be a farther reaching out round with a better ballistics coefficient than, say, a 30-06. Even then, every caliber should be understood as "the right round for a specific situation"

    For myself, I, after carrying all of the big three, have settled on the 9mm due to ammo capacity, but mostly due to the fact that as a college student with limited income, 9mm is the cheapest round to shoot. I enjoy shooting, and I also believe it's better to train with a possibly sub-par round than be untrained with a different one. I understand the idea of practicing with one caliber and carrying another, but again, I just don't have the income to expand the arsenal. so for MY purpose, I carry a 9mm with 147g jhp's. for someone else, like an LEO or any of you guys, the tool for the job may be a .45 or a 357 sig. I can't stand the idea that there is one SINGLE perfect round. Everybody knows the best round is a howitzer
    I shoot 165gr 40 S&W for self defense. Is it a perfect round? Hardly. But I'm extremely accurate with it, and .40 S&W does pack a punch. It's basically a 10mm lite. Underwood Ammo's offerings are quite potent, however. I had wanted a .40 since I was able to legally own one. I just love the caliber!

    As for a woods gun, you should know by now that .460 Rowland is my choice, on a converted 1911. I wanted a .40 Super, but no barrel manufacturer would make me a barrel for a non-Glock. NOT CHEAP THOUGH!
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    What car has the FBI said is he best car? Best FBI shoes? Best FBI fast food?
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    ^doughnuts
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    Last edited by J_dazzle23; 10-04-2014 at 02:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    I shoot 165gr 40 S&W for self defense. Is it a perfect round? Hardly. But I'm extremely accurate with it, and .40 S&W does pack a punch. It's basically a 10mm lite. Underwood Ammo's offerings are quite potent, however. I had wanted a .40 since I was able to legally own one. I just love the caliber!

    As for a woods gun, you should know by now that .460 Rowland is my choice, on a converted 1911. I wanted a .40 Super, but no barrel manufacturer would make me a barrel for a non-Glock. NOT CHEAP THOUGH!
    I loved the 40 in my dao. I recently shot a glock 23 compensated and loved it too.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    The best round is the one of Jameson or Mickey Finns and on the house.
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    The best round is the one of Jameson or Mickey Finns and on the house.
    Right on. I can't believe we are doing this 45 vs 9 thing again. I don't wanna get hit by either, and I'd rather not have to fire either at anyone. I carry both and I bet either will do fine if it comes to that. For now, first rounds on me. I'll have an Oban.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    The best round is the one of Jameson or Mickey Finns and on the house.
    Make mine a bourbon, Buffalo Trace please!
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XD40sc View Post
    It is not the size of the hole, but where the hole is installed in the bad guy that counts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD40sc View Post
    It is not the size of the hole, but where the hole is installed in the bad guy that counts.
    Exactly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    The worst thing the FBI ever did was stop using 10mm.
    This round was the bomb! The FBI set parameters and did a lot of testing. It was THE round. But it caused problems, like lower qual rates.
    Last edited by MackTheKnife; 10-06-2014 at 11:19 AM.
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    Considering expense and carry capacity... they do make a good case for it being the best round for law enforcement officers, or anyone else who may get into shoot outs.

    Their study has little affect on the best round to carry for civilian self defense.

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    When people ask me about choosing "the best" sidearm I liken it to picking out athletic shoes. The shoe that may be the "best" 'objectively, may not fit your foot right, may not be the best for the specific places you run/walk, may not be best for your preferred activity or cross training preferences, or may not be affordable for you. Sure, read reviews of what shoes work well for your preferences but then pick the one(s) that best fit YOU.

    The FBI, like any other large organization, has to make a choice that works the best across the averages, not for any particular individual. That is all this says. They have determined that, on average for the people who choose a career in the FBI, the 9mm is the best choice. That covers women 5' 2" tall, 100 lbs who only shoot on qualifying day and the former NCAA football lineman who shoots recreationally, or vice versa.

    I think all this tells us, we who are not institutional bulk buying but rather choosing the best gun for us or the few members of our household, is that FBI testing has found that if your personal best fitting choice is a 9mm with modern JHP ammunition that it is a sufficient choice for self and home defense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    Make mine a bourbon, Buffalo Trace please!
    Shopped a liqour store across from the Mandaly Bay a week or so ago and BT was 6 bucks cheaper than Jimmy B...go figure.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Shopped a liqour store across from the Mandaly Bay a week or so ago and BT was 6 bucks cheaper than Jimmy B...go figure.
    Better jump on that! Cheaper than JB? Wow...

    The Buffalo is nothing super fancy, but it's a really nice mid-shelf IMO. Definitely better than Beam.
    Last edited by The Truth; 10-06-2014 at 01:49 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    Better jump on that! Cheaper than JB? Wow...

    The Buffalo is nothing super fancy, but it's a really nice mid-shelf IMO. Definitely better than Beam.
    About 8 bucks higher than my local grocery store price.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niland View Post
    Right on. I can't believe we are doing this 45 vs 9 thing again. I don't wanna get hit by either, and I'd rather not have to fire either at anyone. I carry both and I bet either will do fine if it comes to that. For now, first rounds on me. I'll have an Oban.
    Yes. It's also important to realize that shot placement is ultimately what matters most. Having a 9mm and hitting your target is better than having a .45 and missing every shot. The gun and the caliber can only determine so much. The most important factor is the person using it.

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    The reason the 9mm did so poorly in the 1986 gun fight was because the bad guys had 223 rifles.
    Last edited by 77zach; 10-07-2014 at 01:26 PM.
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    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Although both Matix and Platt were hit multiple times during the shoot out, Platt fought on and continued to injure and kill agents. This incident led to the introduction of more powerful handguns in the FBI and many police departments

    The Winchester 9mm Silvertip round(used by The FBI) was state of the art back then but was still crap, still is imho.





    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    The reason the 9mm did so poorly in the 1986 gun fight was because the bad guys had 223 rifles.
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