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Case Closed: FBI Says 9mm Is The Best Pistol Round

The Truth

The Truth

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OC for ME said:
Shopped a liqour store across from the Mandaly Bay a week or so ago and BT was 6 bucks cheaper than Jimmy B...go figure.
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Better jump on that! Cheaper than JB? Wow...

The Buffalo is nothing super fancy, but it's a really nice mid-shelf IMO. Definitely better than Beam.
 
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G

Guy Halbert

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Niland said:
Right on. I can't believe we are doing this 45 vs 9 thing again. I don't wanna get hit by either, and I'd rather not have to fire either at anyone. I carry both and I bet either will do fine if it comes to that. For now, first rounds on me. I'll have an Oban.
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Yes. It's also important to realize that shot placement is ultimately what matters most. Having a 9mm and hitting your target is better than having a .45 and missing every shot. The gun and the caliber can only determine so much. The most important factor is the person using it.
 
77zach

77zach

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The reason the 9mm did so poorly in the 1986 gun fight was because the bad guys had 223 rifles.
 
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Marco

Marco

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Although both Matix and Platt were hit multiple times during the shoot out, Platt fought on and continued to injure and kill agents. This incident led to the introduction of more powerful handguns in the FBI and many police departments

The Winchester 9mm Silvertip round(used by The FBI) was state of the art back then but was still crap, still is imho.





77zach said:
The reason the 9mm did so poorly in the 1986 gun fight was because the bad guys had 223 rifles.
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FreeInAZ

FreeInAZ

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I am a firm believer in carry what works for you & what you can put on target! Now, not to bash the FBI but - many people, even some in LEA's, say those letters stand for: Friggin Bunch of Idiots. ;)
 
F350

F350

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F

Firearms Iinstuctor

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Marco said:
Although both Matix and Platt were hit multiple times during the shoot out, Platt fought on and continued to injure and kill agents. This incident led to the introduction of more powerful handguns in the FBI and many police departments

The Winchester 9mm Silvertip round(used by The FBI) was state of the art back then but was still crap, still is imho.
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The reason the shoot out went the way it did was piss poor tactics to began with by a totally mentally, equipment, and tactically unprepared agents.

They didn't know, understand or use good tactics involved in making a high risk stop.

They didn't wear body armor nor did the passenger agents all have long guns available.

The whole I am going to blame some thing else then are piss poor performance started the whole 9mm bullet failure.

The 9mm silver tip preformed just as designed and was a fatal hit another inch or two of penetration might or might not have made a different.

Having known people who have taken full powered rifle rounds, keep going and lived.

Or seen many hundreds heads of human sized game taken their heart and lungs turned to mush but they are still capable of traveling a hundred yards or so.

Tells me that one can't not count on any round stop anything rt now things happens.

Be prepared.
 
since9

since9

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Based in a combination of factors, including so-called “stopping power,” weight and availability, the FBI study shows that the 9mm round penetrates far enough, allows for shooters to carry more rounds, and is more widely available and less expensive than alternative rounds like the .45 ACP or .40 Smith & Wesson.
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These -- all of these -- were precisely my reasons for choosing a 16+1 9mm semi-auto five years ago.

The study shows most law enforcement shootings result in only about 30 percent of the rounds hitting their target.
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I'm closer to 100% on the range. Can't say how'd I do in a firefight, but I'd like to think it would be greater than 30%.
 
Marco

Marco

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Firearms Iinstuctor said:
The reason the shoot out went the way it did was piss poor tactics to began with by a totally mentally, equipment, and tactically unprepared agents.

They didn't know, understand or use good tactics involved in making a high risk stop.

They didn't wear body armor nor did the passenger agents all have long guns available.

The whole I am going to blame some thing else then are piss poor performance started the whole 9mm bullet failure.

The 9mm silver tip preformed just as designed and was a fatal hit another inch or two of penetration might or might not have made a different.

Having known people who have taken full powered rifle rounds, keep going and lived.

Or seen many hundreds heads of human sized game taken their heart and lungs turned to mush but they are still capable of traveling a hundred yards or so.

Tells me that one can't not count on any round stop anything rt now things happens.

Be prepared.
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Agree, with almost everything you stated.
Those agents faced an adversary that was determined.

I believe the flip flopping of the duty weapon, caliber and type of rd is nothing more than justifying their inflated budgets.
New Sigs plus associated gear for all those agents along with 10's of thousands of rds, plus training, qualifications etc....
 
WalkingWolf

WalkingWolf

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Firearms Iinstuctor said:
The reason the shoot out went the way it did was piss poor tactics to began with by a totally mentally, equipment, and tactically unprepared agents.

They didn't know, understand or use good tactics involved in making a high risk stop.

They didn't wear body armor nor did the passenger agents all have long guns available.

The whole I am going to blame some thing else then are piss poor performance started the whole 9mm bullet failure.

The 9mm silver tip preformed just as designed and was a fatal hit another inch or two of penetration might or might not have made a different.

Having known people who have taken full powered rifle rounds, keep going and lived.

Or seen many hundreds heads of human sized game taken their heart and lungs turned to mush but they are still capable of traveling a hundred yards or so.

Tells me that one can't not count on any round stop anything rt now things happens.

Be prepared.
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I can understand it being hard to put the blame on injured and killed agents. But for the sake of saving more agent lives they have to look at it from the proper perspective. They made so many unnecessary mistakes in that fiasco, hopefully it never happens again. But if they think just changing pistol caliber is the solution they are in for a rude awakening.
 
Rusty Young Man

Rusty Young Man

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WalkingWolf said:
I can understand it being hard to put the blame on injured and killed agents. But for the sake of saving more agent lives they have to look at it from the proper perspective. They made so many unnecessary mistakes in that fiasco, hopefully it never happens again. But if they think just changing pistol caliber is the solution they are in for a rude awakening.
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I've come to the conclusion that a subset of people will attempt to overcome their own shortfalls by purchasing the latest and greatest in technology rather than practicing and taking the time to perfect their own skills.
These are the same people who attach 20+ lbs of equipment on their ARs or pay $1200 for gunsmithing on their pistols' triggers and STILL can't hit what they're aiming at.:banghead:
 
F

Firearms Iinstuctor

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northern wis
WalkingWolf said:
I can understand it being hard to put the blame on injured and killed agents. But for the sake of saving more agent lives they have to look at it from the proper perspective. They made so many unnecessary mistakes in that fiasco, hopefully it never happens again. But if they think just changing pistol caliber is the solution they are in for a rude awakening.
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We see it time and time again that you are told that we can't blame the person or persons for their mistakes.

Well if some cuts their fingers off in a saw, one at least should be able to point to the incident and say don't but your fingers into the saw it is the wrong thing to do.
 
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