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Thread: Police smashed a car window/taser passenger during routine traffic stop in Indiana

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Police smashed a car window/taser passenger during routine traffic stop in Indiana

    In a statement, Hammond police told the news site: 'The Hammond police officers were at all times acting in the interest of officer safety and in accordance with Indiana law.

    'In general, police officers who make legal traffic stops are allowed to ask passengers inside of a stopped vehicle for identification and to request that they exit a stopped vehicle for the officer's safety without a requirement of reasonable suspicion.'
    Is "In general" code for "under state statute?" Is a passenger required to carry ID in Indiana?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Is "In general" code for "under state statute?" Is a passenger required to carry ID in Indiana?
    They can ask all they want. Just can't demand unless they are committing an infraction like no seat belt.

    If no ID then nothing to give besides verbal ID.
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    34-28-5-3.5

    http://iga.in.gov/legislative/laws/2...ment-chapter-5

    If the person is stopped for an infraction or ordinance violation, they must show ID or provide ID. So if the passenger wasn't committing a crime the cops can pound sand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/family-su...-stop-violence

    Wow. I hope they are able to sue the individual officers. What gives them the right to ID the passenger? Apparently at some point the passenger was allegedly not wearing a seat belt.

    I find the 'reaching in the back seat' claims not credible.

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    So...who was open carrying?

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cce1302 View Post
    So...who was open carrying?
    5-0
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cce1302 View Post
    So...who was open carrying?
    No one has to be. It's dramatic news about police so fair game
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Regular Member warvet68/69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/family-su...-stop-violence

    Wow. I hope they are able to sue the individual officers. What gives them the right to ID the passenger? Apparently at some point the passenger was allegedly not wearing a seat belt.

    I find the 'reaching in the back seat' claims not credible.
    It was reported on the local news station in L/ville,Ky. they're suing the Indiana Police Department.

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Good gracious. So Indiana passed a law which specifically legalises the use of deadly force and the officer still assaults citizens? I would find it hard to believe that the use of extreme force wasn't warranted when you have an officer pointing his gun at innocent (yea ok a seatbelt violation, big deal) citizens with children around. He's very lucky to get away with that - at least until it gets to the courts.
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    Isolated incident

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bomber View Post
    Isolated incident
    Definitely the first instance of police brutality that I've heard of in quite some time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Non lethal police brutality vs. the lethal variety of police brutality.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/family-su...-stop-violence

    Wow. I hope they are able to sue the individual officers. What gives them the right to ID the passenger? Apparently at some point the passenger was allegedly not wearing a seat belt.

    I find the 'reaching in the back seat' claims not credible.
    Add me to that list, anymore some police are not bashful about lying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Add me to that list, anymore some police are not bashful about lying.
    watch the video. he does turn around and try to get in the back seat. he was just being a jerk to the cops. i dont know the law but i dont imagine you can sit in a car, refuse to roll the window down/get out of the car/provide ID and expect nothing to happen. Whether the LEOs are in the right/wrong refusing an order on the side of the street will only end in situations like that. they love their authority.

    Do you think you're just going to be able to drive off at some point? I love the lady asking for a lieutenant and the guy responds "you see these bars?" like i know wtf that means.
    Last edited by Kopis; 10-09-2014 at 10:21 AM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    watch the video. he does turn around and try to get in the back seat. he was just being a jerk to the cops. i dont know the law but i dont imagine you can sit in a car, refuse to roll the window down/get out of the car/provide ID and expect nothing to happen. Whether the LEOs are in the right/wrong refusing an order on the side of the street will only end in situations like that. they love their authority.
    The police only have power to exert authority when a person violates a law, or there is RAS that they violated the law. There is no law for anything you described above, and no reason for a person to comply to nonsense. And then when they outright lie and nothing is done, twice mind you. These officers have already cost their tax payers money for police misconduct. Situation like what happened to this man will only result in his large increase in his bank account. Lawyers love their litigation.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    watch the video. he does turn around and try to get in the back seat. he was just being a jerk to the cops. i dont know the law but i dont imagine you can sit in a car, refuse to roll the window down/get out of the car/provide ID and expect nothing to happen. Whether the LEOs are in the right/wrong refusing an order on the side of the street will only end in situations like that. they love their authority.

    Do you think you're just going to be able to drive off at some point? I love the lady asking for a lieutenant and the guy responds "you see these bars?" like i know wtf that means.
    OMG, he turns around as the glass is broken flying into his face. There is NO SUCH OFFENSE as "Being a jerk to the cops". As the passenger, he has no cause to do anything but sit there.

    The cops have a right to give the person a ticket for not using seat belts and that's it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    OMG, he turns around as the glass is broken flying into his face. There is NO SUCH OFFENSE as "Being a jerk to the cops". As the passenger, he has no cause to do anything but sit there.

    The cops have a right to give the person a ticket for not using seat belts and that's it.
    I only ask this with the assumption that he in fact did NOT have his seat belt on: Wouldn't the issuance of the citation require identification? While an ID should not be required (non needed to be a passenger), verbal identification could be demanded at that point, right? I also thought that the police could order you out of the vehicle but that you did not have to answer questions as a passenger.

    **These are questions and in no way an attempt to defend/condemn these officers.
    Last edited by willy1094; 10-09-2014 at 01:36 PM.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The police only have power to exert authority when a person violates a law, or there is RAS that they violated the law.
    You err. In the long standing tradition of the SCOTUS's treasonous failure to protect the people's rights against the government's constant full court press to enslave us they have decided that during a traffic stop the cop (in the name of cop safety) can control passengers. They can make you get out the car completely absent of suspicion of a crime.

    https://supreme.justia.com/cases/fed.../408/case.html
    "In this case we consider whether the rule of Pennsylvania v. Mimms, 434 U. S. 106 (1977) (per curiam), that a police officer may as a matter of course order the driver of a lawfully stopped car to exit his vehicle, extends to passengers as well. We hold that it does."
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    You err. In the long standing tradition of the SCOTUS's treasonous failure to protect the people's rights against the government's constant full court press to enslave us they have decided that during a traffic stop the cop (in the name of cop safety) can control passengers. They can make you get out the car completely absent of suspicion of a crime.

    https://supreme.justia.com/cases/fed.../408/case.html
    "In this case we consider whether the rule of Pennsylvania v. Mimms, 434 U. S. 106 (1977) (per curiam), that a police officer may as a matter of course order the driver of a lawfully stopped car to exit his vehicle, extends to passengers as well. We hold that it does."
    Once again, officer safety trumps individual rights

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cce1302 View Post
    So...who was open carrying?
    Am I on "cop block"? I have the same question. Other than the LEO, who has a weapon and when did it come into play?
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    You err. In the long standing tradition of the SCOTUS's treasonous failure to protect the people's rights against the government's constant full court press to enslave us they have decided that during a traffic stop the cop (in the name of cop safety) can control passengers. They can make you get out the car completely absent of suspicion of a crime.

    https://supreme.justia.com/cases/fed.../408/case.html
    "In this case we consider whether the rule of Pennsylvania v. Mimms, 434 U. S. 106 (1977) (per curiam), that a police officer may as a matter of course order the driver of a lawfully stopped car to exit his vehicle, extends to passengers as well. We hold that it does."

    Quote Originally Posted by bomber View Post
    Once again, officer safety trumps individual rights
    Once again this is what happens when you depend on government to protect you from government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    They can ask all they want. Just can't demand unless they are committing an infraction like no seat belt.

    If no ID then nothing to give besides verbal ID.
    Note: not all states have this rule ... its state specific ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    Am I on "cop block"? I have the same question. Other than the LEO, who has a weapon and when did it come into play?
    Dog forbid someone hold the police accountable...
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Note: not all states have this rule ... its state specific ...
    Agreed
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Agreed
    Like when they ask "when were you born" and your reply is "how do I know, I was just a kid and unaware of the concept of time"

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