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Thread: When will VCDL finally endorse a candidate for US Senator?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    When will VCDL finally endorse a candidate for US Senator?

    Ammoland explains what many here already know. Gillespe refuses to answer the VCDL questionnaire. Sarvis has, and is rated very pro gun. VCDL PAC should endorse Sarvis.

    Link: http://www.ammoland.com/2014/10/ed-g...etter-a-dodge/

    Gillespe is running an awful campaign anyways and cannot win. VCDL should stop quivering about the endorsement of an unabashed gun rights supporter without an R next to his name and support Sarvis.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    I don't think THE PAC (not VCDL) will endorse in the race.

    This is a federal election. VCDL and its PAC do not take stances on federal elections. They will make public the results of the survey, as an educational measure, as I understand the restrictions.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tess View Post
    I don't think THE PAC (not VCDL) will endorse in the race.

    This is a federal election. VCDL and its PAC do not take stances on federal elections. They will make public the results of the survey, as an educational measure, as I understand the restrictions.
    I'm confused by that, Tess. Voters will be electing a Virginia Senator and, even though he will be serving as a federal representative for the Commonwealth in the U.S. Senate, it is still an election for a Virginia representative. This is no different, IMO, that the various candidates for the federal House -- does VCDL not endorse people running for House districts? If the VCDL PAC doesn't, it is missing some it's responsibility, I think. Certainly the in-state legislators are the ones that most directly affect our 2nd Amendment rights, but those rights are also affected by those who we send to represent us at the federal level. Seems to me that VCDL has a role to play in both the state AND the federal level.
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  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    I'm confused by that, Tess. Voters will be electing a Virginia Senator and, even though he will be serving as a federal representative for the Commonwealth in the U.S. Senate, it is still an election for a Virginia representative. This is no different, IMO, that the various candidates for the federal House -- does VCDL not endorse people running for House districts? If the VCDL PAC doesn't, it is missing some it's responsibility, I think. Certainly the in-state legislators are the ones that most directly affect our 2nd Amendment rights, but those rights are also affected by those who we send to represent us at the federal level. Seems to me that VCDL has a role to play in both the state AND the federal level.

    I'm not sure I'm the best one to explain it. Because the PAC is chartered as a state organization, it cannot make endorsements in federal elections without jeopardizing its tax status. Hey, I don't write election laws or tax laws -- and I'm obviously not clear enough on it to give a better explanation. I hope someone else here can.

    VCDL can, and obviously does, ask candidates to complete a survey, and it publishes the results of that survey, but it's part of the organization's educational mission.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tess View Post
    I'm not sure I'm the best one to explain it. Because the PAC is chartered as a state organization, it cannot make endorsements in federal elections without jeopardizing its tax status. Hey, I don't write election laws or tax laws -- and I'm obviously not clear enough on it to give a better explanation. I hope someone else here can.

    VCDL can, and obviously does, ask candidates to complete a survey, and it publishes the results of that survey, but it's part of the organization's educational mission.
    Interesting. VCDL PAC is a 501(c) organization, isn't it? And that's a Federal IRS designation, yes? I'm surprised that the designation would allow the PAC to comment or endorse only in-state candidates....
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    Interesting. VCDL PAC is a 501(c) organization, isn't it? And that's a Federal IRS designation, yes? I'm surprised that the designation would allow the PAC to comment or endorse only in-state candidates....
    It's not a simple matter James. I was asked by a group several years ago to look into forming a PAC. The mechanics are pretty simple and State law isn't too bad.

    But it's like hunting in the National Forest. You need a state hunting license but you also need a NF Stamp and the laws are what the Fed's deem appropriate, not necessarily the state.

    The Federal election laws are like everything Federal, a nightmare.

    Now anyone can make an endorsement. The key is money spent either in manpower or actual cash as in Ad's, that determine if you are a factor in the election outcome. I suppose that's why a bank account is a requirement for a PAC.

    VCDL is in fact endorsing a candidate with it's survey's but doesn't need PAC status because it's only a statement of fact about filling out the form and here's what they wrote.

    It's a little more complicated with them also because there isn't a true arms length between the ORG and the PAC. They need to walk softly.

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    I can see good reason for a political organization not to make recommendations .. you always get some folks' feathers ruffled.

    All depends on the goals of the organization.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post

    VCDL is in fact endorsing a candidate with it's survey's but doesn't need PAC status because it's only a statement of fact about filling out the form and here's what they wrote.
    I agree Peter, but when will VCDL publish results with their warning that failure to respond is often indicative of a n anti-gun rights platform?

    Voting absentee in person, which is a favored method of voting for handicapped voters, started weeks ago and many servicemen have absentee ballots and must return their ballots soon to make sure that their vote counts.

    So, I would wonder, which is more important to VCDL: providing timely questionnaire results to servicemen and the handicapped, or again begging and whining to an arrogant politician that does not think grass roots gun supporters are relevant? So, in my opinion, the Latin phrase Acta non Verba (deeds not words) applies here - the actions of VCDL point to the answer.

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    I agree Peter, but when will VCDL publish results with their warning that failure to respond is often indicative of a n anti-gun rights platform?
    r

    Now that's a different question. They'll probably post it to their web site 1-4 days before the election, if history is a guide.

    Don't shoot the messenger.
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    Hell, I'll endorse the Libertarian. It probably means a mere protest vote against that guy who, with Bill ("I did not have sex with that woman!") Clinton, shipped our manufacturing capacity and jobs to China, and now claims in his TV ad that he's working to get'em back.
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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    VCDL still shows a disgusting disregard for Elderly, Handicapped & Military Voters

    VCDL/VCDL PAC - is still holding out hope for a bone from Ed even though Ed has already pulled advertising and thrown in the towel. As of today the VCDL PAC survey results still have not been published.

    Many voters have already voted via early or absentee voting without knowing the results of the VCDL survey. A disproportionate percentage of the early and absentee voters are the elderly, handicapped and military voters.

    Why would an inclusive grass roots gun rights group do this?????

    Well if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, chances are it is a duck!!!

    Here is what I think: VCDL is afraid to even publish the results of their questionnaire in a timely manner. They chose not to inform the early and absentee voters rather than dare provide information that would hurt Ed and instead help the most pro-gun party in Virginia (Libertarians). It pains them to admit that the R in the US Senate race has snubbed gun owners and has an anti gunner leading his staff.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    VCDL/VCDL PAC - is still holding out hope for a bone from Ed even though Ed has already pulled advertising and thrown in the towel. As of today the VCDL PAC survey results still have not been published.

    Many voters have already voted via early or absentee voting without knowing the results of the VCDL survey. A disproportionate percentage of the early and absentee voters are the elderly, handicapped and military voters.

    Why would an inclusive grass roots gun rights group do this?????

    Well if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, chances are it is a duck!!!

    Here is what I think: VCDL is afraid to even publish the results of their questionnaire in a timely manner. They chose not to inform the early and absentee voters rather than dare provide information that would hurt Ed and instead help the most pro-gun party in Virginia (Libertarians). It pains them to admit that the R in the US Senate race has snubbed gun owners and has an anti gunner leading his staff.

    Pardon me for asking, but what results? Neither major-party candidate has answers to publish. VCDL has sent at least 2, maybe 3, VA-ALERT items that indicate neither major-party candidate has responded.

    The PAC won't endorse in a federal election, and VCDL has nothing to publish. What, exactly, are you looking for?
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tess View Post
    Pardon me for asking, but what results? Neither major-party candidate has answers to publish. VCDL has sent at least 2, maybe 3, VA-ALERT items that indicate neither major-party candidate has responded.

    The PAC won't endorse in a federal election, and VCDL has nothing to publish. What, exactly, are you looking for?
    VCDL sent questionaires to three candidates. They got 3 answers; one very pro gun response and 2 refusals to allow citizens to understand their anti gun proclivities. VCDL has a standard warning they give to voters about candidates that refuse to answer the questionnaire.
    Question: Why would VCDL not publish the results and warn about the failures to respond?
    Answer: They would rather remain mute as the truth might hurt Ed and help Rob Sarvis.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Let me be blunt.

    This whole debate is UTTERLY. RIDICULOUS. PERIOD.

    There is no such thing as endorsing a candidate any more. You don't vote for candidates, you vote for party ideologies. ESPECIALLY if you vote for a Democrat - OR you vote for a candidate who cannot win.

    Sarvis is more than a waste of a vote. You can jump up and down and scream all you want, a vote for Sarvis is the same as a vote for Warner, and EITHER is a vote to CONFIRM the next Obama Supreme Court nominee, who WILL one day vote to gut the Second Amendment. How many of you have read the dissenting opinions in Heller and McDonald? If you have ANY thought towards voting for anyone other than the Republican candidate, you really need to go read those opinions, and UNDERSTAND that your vote for Warner OR Sarvis is a vote that will help those lunatic opinions become the law of the land in the next significant court case.

    We are fighting a war of the culture here, and we do not have the luxury to waste a vote on a candidate who has absolutely NO CHANCE to win the election.

    I strongly disagree with prior comments that a refusal to answer a VCDL survey is some ominous sign. I really wish VCDL would stop issuing surveys. Individual candidate surveys are worthless. If you are too stupid to figure out the party line on an affiliated candidate, you need to find something more productive - and less damaging to the country - to do on Election Day. One of the MOST Pro-Gun Delegates in the State never returns his surveys, and over the years he has probably carried dozens of bills for VCDL. Go ahead and tell him that he's not pro-gun, or a friend to VCDL. I DARE YOU.

    Our political culture has changed. Individual candidate positions are meaningless, ESPECIALLY on the Democrat side. Just look at any of the recent legislative efforts. Dennis Prager wrote an excellent column about this last week. It would do us all good to read it and alter our behavior accordingly.

    We're fighting for the very life of our Nation here. We cannot afford to vote "feel good." We'll be "feeling good" all the way to our own destruction.

    TFred

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    dont care. I want my represtatives to represent me and my views and am finished voting so a marginally more alligned party can have another turn to ruin things

    Wait what does that prager article have to do with sarvis? Sounds like a neocon crying the dems arent "hawkish" enough to vote for. Even that argument is weak. We have witnessed the dems being just as good at waging war on behalf of the nwo as any gop ever has been
    Last edited by conhntr; 10-21-2014 at 06:31 PM.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Let me be blunt.

    This whole debate is UTTERLY. RIDICULOUS. PERIOD.

    There is no such thing as endorsing a candidate any more. You don't vote for candidates, you vote for party ideologies. ESPECIALLY if you vote for a Democrat - OR you vote for a candidate who cannot win.

    Sarvis is more than a waste of a vote. You can jump up and down and scream all you want, a vote for Sarvis is the same as a vote for Warner, and EITHER is a vote to CONFIRM the next Obama Supreme Court nominee, who WILL one day vote to gut the Second Amendment. How many of you have read the dissenting opinions in Heller and McDonald? If you have ANY thought towards voting for anyone other than the Republican candidate, you really need to go read those opinions, and UNDERSTAND that your vote for Warner OR Sarvis is a vote that will help those lunatic opinions become the law of the land in the next significant court case.

    We are fighting a war of the culture here, and we do not have the luxury to waste a vote on a candidate who has absolutely NO CHANCE to win the election.

    I strongly disagree with prior comments that a refusal to answer a VCDL survey is some ominous sign. I really wish VCDL would stop issuing surveys. Individual candidate surveys are worthless. If you are too stupid to figure out the party line on an affiliated candidate, you need to find something more productive - and less damaging to the country - to do on Election Day. One of the MOST Pro-Gun Delegates in the State never returns his surveys, and over the years he has probably carried dozens of bills for VCDL. Go ahead and tell him that he's not pro-gun, or a friend to VCDL. I DARE YOU.

    Our political culture has changed. Individual candidate positions are meaningless, ESPECIALLY on the Democrat side. Just look at any of the recent legislative efforts. Dennis Prager wrote an excellent column about this last week. It would do us all good to read it and alter our behavior accordingly.

    We're fighting for the very life of our Nation here. We cannot afford to vote "feel good." We'll be "feeling good" all the way to our own destruction.

    TFred
    The big government party now in control of the white house, senate and house of representatives is the real threat to our liberty, wealth, security and Republic. These are career politicians that go along to get along.

    Obamacare is law because individuals do matter.

    Believe me, I am sincere when I say I am fighting for the very life of the Republic here. We cannot afford to vote "Republican feel good."

    The Republican wing of the Big Government Party - BGP - will advance in the senate and nothing substantial will change. We will continue to destroy our economic future with Ponzi scheme borrowing helped by an unaccountable fed printing money. We will continue to see our rights destroyed by the Patriot Act. We will continue to see the sovereignty of our States destroyed by ever expansive federal reach and regulations. We will continue to see crony capitalism in both wings of the big government party. We will continue to see our liberty destroyed by political correctness. We will continue to see the conversion of the education system into an indoctrination system. We will continue to see the dismantling of the most advanced health care system in the world. Corrupt lobbying will continue to corrupt the political process.

    Gillespie is a rare bird. So weak a candidate that he cannot win in a conservative state even when the conservative wing of the BGP is favored. He will lose. Probably by double digits. We know this. He has pulled his ads because he does not want to waste money he could use to run for Governor. Even faced with that undeniable reality, some here advocate voting for the candidate that is afraid to stand up and answer a survey because the sky is falling.

    Live Free or Die,
    Thundar
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Ed has new ads running.

    Both Ed and Rob have been personally handed VCDL surveys by my wife in the last two weeks. The ball is in their court regarding the surveys.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Believe me, I am sincere when I say I am fighting for the very life of the Republic here. We cannot afford to vote "Republican feel good."
    And we wait. Still. For someone to come up with any plausible sequence of events that could possibly end with a Sarvis victory.

    ::crickets::

    I do not believe Gillespie will lose by double digits. I am CERTAIN that Sarvis will.

    TFred

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    Regular Member ResidentCelt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tess View Post
    Pardon me for asking, but what results? Neither major-party candidate has answers to publish. VCDL has sent at least 2, maybe 3, VA-ALERT items that indicate neither major-party candidate has responded.

    The PAC won't endorse in a federal election, and VCDL has nothing to publish. What, exactly, are you looking for?
    +1

    Exactly. If Gillespie had responded and Sarvis hadn't, everything would be the same. There is nothing they are "holding back" in hope of Gillespie responding to the survey...

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Every election....!

    There are issues other than 2A and to be honest, EG isn't worth even considering in my mind.

    Sarvis is as usual, not electable despite the merits of his campaign pledges. Voting for him in hopes of him winning is like passing up on Virginia Deer in the hope a Moose will walk by.

    Like nearly elections...we are faced with choosing between dumb and dumber.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Every election....!
    There are issues other than 2A and to be honest, EG isn't worth even considering in my mind.
    Sarvis is as usual, not electable despite the merits of his campaign pledges. Voting for him in hopes of him winning is like passing up on Virginia Deer in the hope a Moose will walk by.
    Like nearly elections...we are faced with choosing between dumb and dumber.
    Truer words could NOT be spoken... unfortunately voters actually DO choose between 2 wrongs...

  22. #22
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ResidentCelt View Post
    +1

    There is nothing they are "holding back" in hope of Gillespie responding to the survey...
    Ah, but there is something that is being held back by VCDL.


    VCDL members should have the results of the VCDL PAC survey. That would show that Sarvis has returned a very pro gun survey and that Warner and Ed have not bothered to even fill out the survey. The results would include the typical warning from the VCDL PAC is that not returning the survey could mean the candidate is not pro gun.

    The point that I am trying to make in this thread is that VCDL PAC appears to have the same mentality as the NRA, that it is only parties that matter. This is the ideology argument that TFred made earlier in the post.

    TFred is, however, wrong. Obamacare did pass with Republican support. The Patriot Act was renewed with Democrat support. Budgets get passed. Individuals do matter.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    And we wait. Still. For someone to come up with any plausible sequence of events that could possibly end with a Sarvis victory.

    ::crickets::

    I do not believe Gillespie will lose by double digits. I am CERTAIN that Sarvis will.

    TFred
    What a great reason to vote for Ed. Somebody believes he will lose by less than 10 percent! The only plausible scenario for Ed's election is Warner getting hit by a bus before election day.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  24. #24
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    A vote for Sarvis is not a vote cast in hopes he will win.

    It may be a vote cast to show that both parties suck.
    It may be cast to put a third party over the magical 10% line (that will then be increased for all purposes that matter).

    But it is not a vote for Warner. Or for Gillespie.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

  25. #25
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Ah, but there is something that is being held back by VCDL.


    VCDL members should have the results of the VCDL PAC survey. That would show that Sarvis has returned a very pro gun survey and that Warner and Ed have not bothered to even fill out the survey. The results would include the typical warning from the VCDL PAC is that not returning the survey could mean the candidate is not pro gun.

    The point that I am trying to make in this thread is that VCDL PAC appears to have the same mentality as the NRA, that it is only parties that matter. This is the ideology argument that TFred made earlier in the post.

    TFred is, however, wrong. Obamacare did pass with Republican support. The Patriot Act was renewed with Democrat support. Budgets get passed. Individuals do matter.

    In all seriousness, because I don't know ... are you a dues-paid member?

    If so, write the leadership and make the case for releasing earlier.
    If not, you have no business telling VCDL how to operate.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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