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Thread: Origin of Statute 790.25

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    Origin of Statute 790.25

    New guy here. I carry concealed and have yet to carry open except on my farm.

    Let me state that I do not condone those idiots on You Tube who seem to take pleasure in baiting LEO. You know the videos I refer to.
    Having said that i am curious why 790.25 allowing for open carry while fishing, hunting or camping as well as to or from was enacted.

    I imagine it was for one of 2 reasons

    1. To placate those of us not opposed to open carry and let us feel a bit of "freedom" in this regard or

    2. As a prelude to a global open carry statute in Florida.

    Anybody know why the statute is written as it is?

    I doubt it is to allow for fast weapon access to dispatch the 6 pound killer bass you just hooked.

    Maybe the though was that in the wild you are more vulnerable to assault in a secluded area? I'm more worried about assault as i drive through the "hood".

    Seriously why does Fl. allow for open carry in these few situations?

    Oh yes although I despise those videos of people antagonizing LEO i do approve of the group fishing expeditions or other videos such as the Dunnellon stop http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyUBm_ZrspY which to my mind are simply a way of desensitizing the public about open carry. I support open carry fully
    but as I don't fish, hunt or camp I cannot open carry. It would be nice if i could open carry while mountain biking!!

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    Baiting LEO? It takes two to tango.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjay9051 View Post
    New guy here. I carry concealed and have yet to carry open except on my farm.

    Let me state that I do not condone those idiots on You Tube who seem to take pleasure in baiting LEO. You know the videos I refer to.
    Having said that i am curious why 790.25 allowing for open carry while fishing, hunting or camping as well as to or from was enacted.

    I imagine it was for one of 2 reasons

    1. To placate those of us not opposed to open carry and let us feel a bit of "freedom" in this regard or

    2. As a prelude to a global open carry statute in Florida.

    Anybody know why the statute is written as it is?

    I doubt it is to allow for fast weapon access to dispatch the 6 pound killer bass you just hooked.

    Maybe the though was that in the wild you are more vulnerable to assault in a secluded area? I'm more worried about assault as i drive through the "hood".

    Seriously why does Fl. allow for open carry in these few situations?

    Oh yes although I despise those videos of people antagonizing LEO i do approve of the group fishing expeditions or other videos such as the Dunnellon stop http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyUBm_ZrspY which to my mind are simply a way of desensitizing the public about open carry. I support open carry fully
    but as I don't fish, hunt or camp I cannot open carry. It would be nice if i could open carry while mountain biking!!
    Moved this to the Florida sub-forum as it is state specific.

    First and foremost, this is an open carry forum. Educating and desensitizing the public, including LEOs, is part of what we do.

    Well you should be able to OC while mountain biking.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drjay9051 View Post
    New guy here. I carry concealed and have yet to carry open except on my farm.

    Let me state that I do not condone those idiots on You Tube who seem to take pleasure in baiting LEO. You know the videos I refer to.
    Having said that i am curious why 790.25 allowing for open carry while fishing, hunting or camping as well as to or from was enacted.
    A better question to pose would be this:

    "Why does Florida outlaw open carry and force citizens to get a license before being allowed to carry a firearm for self-defense?"

    As to history, that should be able to be 'tracked back' at the legislature website, beginning at the statute in question.

    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/...s/0790.25.html



    Note: A 'global open carry statute' is not necessary, nor should it be desired. What should be desired, is redact the restrictions that force a request for permission to carry at all; including redacting the prohibition upon OC. Without a prohibition in statute, no statute is needed to allow it.
    Last edited by wrightme; 10-09-2014 at 12:40 PM.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Moved this to the Florida sub-forum as it is state specific.

    First and foremost, this is an open carry forum. Educating and desensitizing the public, including LEOs, is part of what we do.

    Well you should be able to OC while mountain biking.
    YES. I agree. We should be open carry. My question is why open carry for fishing, camping, hunting? The purpose of these few exceptions was (is)...

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    Quote Originally Posted by drjay9051 View Post
    YES. I agree. We should be open carry. My question is why open carry for fishing, camping, hunting? The purpose of these few exceptions was (is)...
    Why???

    Because that is (A) what the legislature has approved and (B) the courts have upheld.

    You want more? Use either or both A and B.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Why???

    Because that is (A) what the legislature has approved and (B) the courts have upheld.

    You want more? Use either or both A and B.
    IMO poor answer. I suppose what you mean is you don't know why. So just say that your not sure why that is so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Why???

    Because that is (A) what the legislature has approved and (B) the courts have upheld.

    You want more? Use either or both A and B.
    Quote Originally Posted by drjay9051 View Post
    IMO poor answer. I suppose what you mean is you don't know why. So just say that your not sure why that is so.
    Really? Because you don't like the answer doesn't make it any less valid. I'm accutely aware of how a bill becomes law and it is not always a logical progression. It is the result of lobbying, back room deals, and even sometimes the result of "doing the right thing."
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    How does Florida record legislative intent? In SC the drafting documents were archived, down to pencil on foolscap.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drjay9051 View Post
    YES. I agree. We should be open carry. My question is why open carry for fishing, camping, hunting? The purpose of these few exceptions was (is)...
    You will forgive me if this is over simplification.

    Where will you be "fishing, camping, hunting"? In "the wild", not in the city.
    What might you encounter in "the wild"?
    Lets see, maybe wild boar, bears, snakes?
    What can provide you with protection against these things? Umm... let me see???

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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterGadgets View Post
    You will forgive me if this is over simplification.

    Where will you be "fishing, camping, hunting"? In "the wild", not in the city.
    What might you encounter in "the wild"?
    Lets see, maybe wild boar, bears, snakes?
    What can provide you with protection against these things? Umm... let me see???
    Again I am pro open carry. Let me be clear. Snakes and boar at fishing pier? IMO a couple of thugs could be on me quicker than a 4 ft diamondback !

    Not looking to start a war just trying to figure out exactly why the statute is as it is.

    FWIW: I have spoken to a few cops and a couple of firearms instructors and they have no clue as to why it is written this way.

    Oh yes, most of the LEO I spoke with have no issue with open carry

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    Documenting Florida Legislative Intent. From University of Central Florida

    Gathering legislative history materials for Federal laws is relatively easy, but the process is more difficult for Florida laws. For example, many committee records are only available on audiotapes stored in Tallahassee - without transcripts. The following resources may help get you started.[my emphasis]
    http://library.ucf.edu/GovDocs/legal/flaleghist.php
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Baiting LEO? It takes two to tango.

    Did'ja ever see those programs where the police put out 'bait cars' and people steal 'em? Did'ja ever notice that honest, law abiding people don't steal those same cars?

    You can't "bait" an honest man to do something wrong, Those who are "baited" are merely finding the excuse they needed to do what they want not what the law says is right or wrong.

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    Contrary to some opinions, open carry was not unlawful statewide in Florida until a special session of the Legislature in October of 1987, after media cried 'blood will flow in the streets' after passage if the country's first Shall issue statewide preemption statutory scheme, which highlighted that fact.

    790.25 was originally drafted back in 1893/1901, I think. The intent was to codify long standing common law provisions of allowing folks to carry firearms openly while at the same time codifying the 'bad guy' mentality of carrying those firearms concealed without being 'licensed'.

    Originally it simply specified that the requirement to obtain a license for the county was not required and after many revisions it now allows one to openly carry or carry concealed without a CWFL while participating in certain activities where firearm use is considered 'normal' and not frightening to the soccer moms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Contrary to some opinions, open carry was not unlawful statewide in Florida until a special session of the Legislature in October of 1987, after media cried 'blood will flow in the streets' after passage if the country's first Shall issue statewide preemption statutory scheme, which highlighted that fact.

    790.25 was originally drafted back in 1893/1901, I think. The intent was to codify long standing common law provisions of allowing folks to carry firearms openly while at the same time codifying the 'bad guy' mentality of carrying those firearms concealed without being 'licensed'.

    Originally it simply specified that the requirement to obtain a license for the county was not required and after many revisions it now allows one to openly carry or carry concealed without a CWFL while participating in certain activities where firearm use is considered 'normal' and not frightening to the soccer moms.
    Finally!!

    Now it makes a bit more sense.

    Thanks, notalawyer

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    Quote Originally Posted by drjay9051 View Post
    Finally!!

    Now it makes a bit more sense.

    Thanks, notalawyer
    ............
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drjay9051 View Post
    Again I am pro open carry. Let me be clear. Snakes and boar at fishing pier? IMO a couple of thugs could be on me quicker than a 4 ft diamondback !

    FWIW: I have spoken to a few cops and a couple of firearms instructors and they have no clue as to why it is written this way.

    Oh yes, most of the LEO I spoke with have no issue with open carry

    Not all fishing is done at a fishing pier! Ever been to or seen what The Glades look like?

    Asking LEO about the law is like leaning on a broken stick!

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    Quote Originally Posted by drjay9051 View Post
    Finally!!

    Now it makes a bit more sense.

    Thanks, notalawyer
    Well, I'm not sure that it makes any sense, but that is a quick draft of the history surrounding it's creation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Baiting LEO? It takes two to tango.
    Your math is quite good. It does take two.
    Mack The Knife sends.

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