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News crew quarantined - their doing it wrong !!! going out on the town

davidmcbeth

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cjohnson44546

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Quarantines are there to save people from infection... they must always be forced. How can they let them go on the honor system? Thats how to get many people killed...
 

OC for ME

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Let them go out, it was voluntary. If it become involuntary sue the pants off of every citizen who, under the threat of violent physical force, deprives you of your liberty.
 

RK3369

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are you kidding me?????

Let them go out, it was voluntary. If it become involuntary sue the pants off of every citizen who, under the threat of violent physical force, deprives you of your liberty.

Even though it was voluntary, don't you think this woman, doctor, tv personality who had been in contact with one of her party who tested positive for Ebola had a duty to stay in quarantine rather than expose everyone else to it? Come on, her Hippocratic oath even says "do no harm". How can she be excused from the quarantine simply because she wanted some soup? I'd say she's pretty arrogant and not really concerned for anyone other than herself if she couldn't stay in quarantine and not risk exposing others to it.

That's part of the problem with this country nowadays. Those in power and control think they are above it all, and the rest of us peasants just need to get on with our lives and don't hold them to the same standards as the commoners. Feudal society at it's best.
 

OC for ME

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Even though it was voluntary, don't you think this woman, doctor, tv personality who had been in contact with one of her party who tested positive for Ebola had a duty to stay in quarantine rather than expose everyone else to it? Come on, her Hippocratic oath even says "do no harm". How can she be excused from the quarantine simply because she wanted some soup? I'd say she's pretty arrogant and not really concerned for anyone other than herself if she couldn't stay in quarantine and not risk exposing others to it.

That's part of the problem with this country nowadays. Those in power and control think they are above it all, and the rest of us peasants just need to get on with our lives and don't hold them to the same standards as the commoners. Feudal society at it's best.
If what the CDC states is true, ebola cannot be transmitted simply by being in the same space as a ebola carrier...no, she had no duty. A doctor would/should know that getting a bowl of soup is not going to present a hazard to fellow soup lovers.
 

RK3369

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CDC said it's not easily transmisable, Obama said it won't occur here.....

If what the CDC states is true, ebola cannot be transmitted simply by being in the same space as a ebola carrier...no, she had no duty. A doctor would/should know that getting a bowl of soup is not going to present a hazard to fellow soup lovers.

what other lies would you like to believe? If it's not easily transmissible, how come 4000 people in Africa have already died from it? How come this nurse in Dallas, who supposedly was using all the established CDC protocols is now infected? And now the head of the CDC is saying she inadvertently breached one of the protocols, which is why she now tests positive. How come that cameraman with Nancy Snyderman's entourage is now positive. I'm sure he wasn't handling bodies over in Africa, He was just toting his camera around taking shots.

I don't believe a word of what we are being told by the government or the CDC about this. To me, they can't and won't tell us the truth because it will cause a mass panic. I think you are going to see orders to shelter in place for 30 days in the not too distant future. It's here, most hospital workers are complaining that they have never been trained what to do with this or how to handle it. I do not believe the government is telling us all the facts surrounding this issue.
 

davidmcbeth

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If what the CDC states is true, ebola cannot be transmitted simply by being in the same space as a ebola carrier...no, she had no duty. A doctor would/should know that getting a bowl of soup is not going to present a hazard to fellow soup lovers.

Unless you want to consider door knobs and such being within the "same space".

Ebola is not an immediately catch-able, just from being in the same room, type of disease...but its not like its a blood-contact only transmittal either. Its worrisome enough.

No disease is transmitted by light ... or just by being in the same space. Something has to move from the carrier to the new victim.
 

RK3369

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I believe that is a factual statement, at least as far as we know currently.........

Unless you want to consider door knobs and such being within the "same space".

Ebola is not an immediately catch-able, just from being in the same room, type of disease...but its not like its a blood-contact only transmittal either. Its worrisome enough.

No disease is transmitted by light ... or just by being in the same space. Something has to move from the carrier to the new victim.

however, I have heard a few physicians state over the past couple days that if a soiled gown was left in an area, the virus could live on it for several hours. Doorknobs would also seem to be a viable vector to spread the disease. They are not really considering it "airborne" just yet, but then I don't know that they have any confirmed reports of someone sneezing on someone else and the recipient coming down with the disease either. I believe that will likely be next. The real problem is not so much those who are in isolation, it's those who have been exposed and not yet developed the symptoms. When they do, how much further will they spread the disease? And then, of course, we have those self indulgent people like Dr. Nancy Snyderman would couldn't see why she should have to remain in isolation, when she had such a 'horrible craving for a bowl of soup". Sorry, but the woman makes me puke from her utter disregard of any respect for other people. And she is supposed to be a Doctor? Sounds like the only thing she is into is making money and personal indulgence and to heck with everyone else. I hope all her money buys her a nice funeral.
 

NavyMike

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Unless you want to consider door knobs and such being within the "same space".

Ebola is not an immediately catch-able, just from being in the same room, type of disease...but its not like its a blood-contact only transmittal either. Its worrisome enough.

No disease is transmitted by light ... or just by being in the same space. Something has to move from the carrier to the new victim.

A Dr friend shared this with me, from the Pathogen Safety Data Sheet:

http://www.msdsonline.com/resources/msds-resources/free-safety-data-sheet-index/ebola-virus.aspx

In the laboratory, infection through small-particle aerosols has been demonstrated in primates, and airborne spread among humans is strongly suspected, although it has not yet been conclusively demonstrated
 
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Fallschirjmäger

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what other lies would you like to believe? If it's not easily transmissible, how come 4000 people in Africa have already died from it? How come this nurse in Dallas, who supposedly was using all the established CDC protocols is now infected?

Ease of transmission ≠ lethality. Chickenpox and the common cold are easily transmitted (aka highly contagious) but neither is likely to be deadly. Neither are highly infectious.

Ebola is not a highly contagious disease, you almost have to work to come in contact with it. Reports are that most who are infected have been caretakers for those already infected.

Ebola is a highly infectious disease. Chickenpox and the common cold take hundreds if not thousands of microorganisms to achieve a 'foothold' and begin an infection against the body's natural defenses. Ebola takes tens, maybe even a single virus to infect an individual. One virus microorganism riding on a micro-droplet from a sneeze that lands on a protective garment that is not thoroughly decontaminated may be enough to transmit the infection.
 
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since9

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Ebola is not a highly contagious disease. You almost have to work to come in contact with it.

Very, very wrong. It's a nice-sounding lie, particularly when the president spouts it...

See the truth.

Reports are that most who are infected have been caretakers for those already infected.

Also wrong. Two months ago, less than 2,000 had died from it. Today, that number tops 4,000. Among the infected are family, friends, and caregivers, in that order of frequency.

Ebola is a highly infectious disease. Chickenpox and the common cold take hundreds if not thousands of microorganisms to achieve a 'foothold' and begin an infection against the body's natural defenses. Ebola takes tens, maybe even a single virus to infect an individual. One virus microorganism riding on a micro-droplet from a sneeze that lands on a protective garment that is not thoroughly decontaminated may be enough to transmit the infection.

Exactly. Now you're talking sense.
 

RK3369

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[QUOTE=Ebola is a highly infectious disease. Chickenpox and the common cold take hundreds if not thousands of microorganisms to achieve a 'foothold' and begin an infection against the body's natural defenses. Ebola takes tens, maybe even a single virus to infect an individual. One virus microorganism riding on a micro-droplet from a sneeze that lands on a protective garment that is not thoroughly decontaminated may be enough to transmit the infection.
Exactly. Now you're talking sense.

We will never hear the government admit this, because they do not want to start a nationwide panic however, I think we are very soon going to see no fly orders for those who have been exposed, then no fly orders for the entire country because it will start popping up in other areas, then "shelter in place" orders for the general public, and finally, limited duration Martial law to prevent further spread of the disease. There currently is no cure and it appears to be way more contagious than Ebama told us originally, so I'm thinking that eventually there will be no option other than to have the military restrict the movement of citizens in this country, at least for a month or two. If you haven't already done so, you'd better quietly start stockpiling food and water essentials, etc. And until the idiots in Washington who we have elected to protect us see the light, there will be more people from the West African countries flying to this country for treatment. That needs to be stopped like yesterday or this entire issue is going to become an epidemic.
 
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davidmcbeth

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A Dr friend shared this with me, from the Pathogen Safety Data Sheet:

http://www.msdsonline.com/resources/msds-resources/free-safety-data-sheet-index/ebola-virus.aspx

In the laboratory, infection through small-particle aerosols has been demonstrated in primates, and airborne spread among humans is strongly suspected, although it has not yet been conclusively demonstrated

Who wants to be the test subject? I would nominate Biden ... he can have and use his shotgun if he likes.
 

wrightme

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what other lies would you like to believe? If it's not easily transmissible, how come 4000 people in Africa have already died from it? How come this nurse in Dallas, who supposedly was using all the established CDC protocols is now infected? And now the head of the CDC is saying she inadvertently breached one of the protocols, which is why she now tests positive. How come that cameraman with Nancy Snyderman's entourage is now positive. I'm sure he wasn't handling bodies over in Africa, He was just toting his camera around taking shots.

I don't believe a word of what we are being told by the government or the CDC about this. To me, they can't and won't tell us the truth because it will cause a mass panic. I think you are going to see orders to shelter in place for 30 days in the not too distant future. It's here, most hospital workers are complaining that they have never been trained what to do with this or how to handle it. I do not believe the government is telling us all the facts surrounding this issue.

Given that statement, it is clear you have not actually researched the subject at all.

4,000 have died because over 8,000 persons have contracted the disease. Some probably contracted it by handling contaminated meat or fruit. Others by coming into contact with bodily fluids of ill or deceased patients. West Africa does NOT have the same level of care available as we do here in the US.
This link includes several good graphic representations of the actual problem and location, along with comparisons between health care systems.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2014/10/ebola-graphics
Fair-use excerpt:
The inadequacies of the health-care systems in the three most-affected countries help to explain how the Ebola outbreak got this far. Spain, whose first locally transmitted case was confirmed on October 6th, spends over $3,000 per person at purchasing-power parity on health care; for Sierra Leone, the figure is just under $300. The World Health Organisation estimates that Liberia needs just under 3,000 treatment beds for Ebola; its current capacity is 620. The United States, which suffered its first Ebola fatality this week, has 245 doctors per 100,000 people; Guinea has ten. The particular vulnerability of health-care workers to Ebola is therefore doubly tragic: as of October 12th there had been 427 cases among medical staff in the three west African countries, and 236 deaths

Liberia has the highest rate of infection, at about 97:100,000. If we round up to 100:100,000, it is still only 1 case per 1,000 people. Over there, that shows the magnitude of the problem, but less than .1% of the population in the highest incidence country actually are infected.

Guinea has a much lower rate, yet has over 1400 cases. About 15:100,000.

We have 2.

Influenza, otoh, has a global yearly rate of about 10%....
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs211/en/
Influenza occurs globally with an annual attack rate estimated at 5%–10% in adults and 20%–30% in children. Illnesses can result in hospitalization and death mainly among high-risk groups (the very young, elderly or chronically ill). Worldwide, these annual epidemics are estimated to result in about 3 to 5 million cases of severe illness, and about 250 000 to 500 000 deaths.

Specifically what is it you feel are 'lies' that others believe, or 'would like to believe?'
 
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wrightme

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however, I have heard a few physicians state over the past couple days that if a soiled gown was left in an area, the virus could live on it for several hours. Doorknobs would also seem to be a viable vector to spread the disease. They are not really considering it "airborne" just yet, but then I don't know that they have any confirmed reports of someone sneezing on someone else and the recipient coming down with the disease either. I believe that will likely be next. The real problem is not so much those who are in isolation, it's those who have been exposed and not yet developed the symptoms. When they do, how much further will they spread the disease? And then, of course, we have those self indulgent people like Dr. Nancy Snyderman would couldn't see why she should have to remain in isolation, when she had such a 'horrible craving for a bowl of soup". Sorry, but the woman makes me puke from her utter disregard of any respect for other people. And she is supposed to be a Doctor? Sounds like the only thing she is into is making money and personal indulgence and to heck with everyone else. I hope all her money buys her a nice funeral.

If someone sneezes on someone else, bodily fluids have moved from one person to the other. If those fluids enter the other person through either a break in the skin, or the eyes/nose/mouth or other mucous membranes, infection is quite possible.

That is not the same as saying the virus is 'airborne.' That is something else entirely.

Bodily fluids from an infected person are very likely to never be considered 'safe.'


As for the Dr and news crew, unless any of them are showing actual symptoms, they are not contagious. It really is that simple.
 

Fallschirjmäger

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Very, very wrong. It's a nice-sounding lie, particularly when the president spouts it...

Also wrong. Two months ago, less than 2,000 had died from it. Today, that number tops 4,000. Among the infected are family, friends, and caregivers, in that order of frequency.

With all due respect Dr Paul (who is an eye doctor, not a virologist) is confusing infectious with contagious. Although usually used interchangeably, there are specialized connotations both 'infectious' and 'contagious' that are not always respected in popular use.
The very fact that it's family, friends and caregivers that are most affected only reinforces what I said, that you have to work at contacting Ebola. You need intimate contact, not casual contact. Additionally, requiring two full months to double speaks volumes about how hard it is to contract, not how easily.
DiseaseVectorR[SUB]0[/SUB]
(Contagiousness)
MeaslesAirborne12-18
PertussisAirborne droplet12–17
DiphtheriaSaliva6–7
SmallpoxAirborne droplet5–7
PolioFecal-oral route5–7
RubellaAirborne droplet5–7
MumpsAirborne droplet4–7
HIV/AIDSSexual contact2–5
SARSAirborne droplet2–5
Influenza
(1918 pandemic strain)
Airborne droplet2–3
Ebola
(2014 Ebola outbreak)
Bodily fluids1-2
BotulismNot contagious0
ebolar0_custom-51327a6a4853632602173cc2fa7ad8339aac5630-s40-c85.0.jpg

Measles, which is completely airborne, is extremely contagious with an R naught of 12-18. For every patient infected with measles, you can expect that 12-18 people will be exposed to the disease.
Ebola, which is spread through bodily fluids in not especially contagious. However, Ebola is very infectious, it only takes an astonishingly small number of the micro-organism (maybe less then 5) to infect someone it comes in contact with.

I would refer the interested reader to Bill Wittle's video and an article by Forbes which attempt to explain the difference between two easily confused words.


TL;DR - Contagiousness = How widely other people are affected (a contagion).
Infectiousness = How easily other people are infected (number of organisms required.)
 
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davidmcbeth

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Fallschirmjäger's right .. medical science is NOT a science.

When I visit a doc and he recommends a course of treatment, I ask the doc for a money back guarantee ... no workie, he pays me all $$ spent. If they balk, I know that they are not sure and most likely giving me BS.
 
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