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Thread: Weapons prohibitions at Travis County Parks

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    Weapons prohibitions at Travis County Parks

    Below is a copy of the e-mail I sent to the TSRA regarding a bad experience I had with a Travis County (Austin, TX) Park Ranger while camping this weekend at Pace Bend. I've only been there a few times, but seem to get hasseled by this guy for something everytime. He's even yelled at me for parking on the grass at a campsite. Has anyone else experienced something like this? Is anyone aware of any other legal prohibitons against open carry here?

    --------------------------------------------

    TSRA,

    I am a CHL holder and was camping with some friends at Pace Bend Park this weekend and had a concerning interaction with a Park Ranger there. He pulled us over to warn us about our speed on the park road and when he asked for my driver's license, I handed him my CHL as well.

    He took it and asked if I had a handgun in my car and I said yes. Then he asked me if I saw the sign at the front gate and told me that weapons are not allowed in LCRA parks. Later upon our exit, we didn't see any signs related to firearms.

    After running my license, he came back to my window with an attitude and said that "some people think they can come out here and do whatever they want." He cautioned about driving too fast on the park roads because we might hit an animal, then went back to lecturing me about firearms and said that "some people think they can come out here and shoot at beer cans or animals."

    I told him I have my CHL and my handgun for protection and wasn't there to cause any trouble, so he told me "just make sure it doesn't leave the vehicle." At that point, my friend told him he didn't see any 30.06 signs and the officer and his backup that had arrived argued with my friend for a few minutes. Eventually they told use they generally don't bother people about guns unless they're doing something wrong and let us go.

    I've researched Pace Bend Park and it looks like it falls under Travis County jurisdiction, while the river is managed by LCRA. The LCRA website specifically allows CHLs in their regulations, but the Travis County Parks website says this:

    "Weapons, Firearms, and Fireworks - No person shall possess or discharge weapons, firearms, or fireworks in any county park."
    https://parks.traviscountytx.gov/about/rules-safety

    My concern is that the Travis Country Park Rangers are either misinformed about state firearms laws, or they are intentionally harassing gun owners. The officer I dealt with was Joseph Delahoussaye (emp# 3196). I would appreciate any guidance you can provide on this situation.

    Thanks,
    Last edited by TerranAce007; 10-14-2014 at 07:39 PM.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Please move this to the TEXAS sub forum. Unless the OP was not posting about Texas. OP please start by informing us about what state this is happening in.

    Then post it in the correct state sub-forum.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Weapons, Firearms, and Fireworks - No person shall possess or discharge weapons, firearms, or fireworks in any county park.
    Is that difficult to understand?
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Is that difficult to understand?
    It is if Texas has a preemption statute! Well not hard to understand exactly but totally void
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    It is if Texas has a preemption statute! Well not hard to understand exactly but totally void

    How about the USA "Preemption statute"???????????


    "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed"



    Why in the He!! do people continue to ignore the 2nd Amendment??????????????????????


    Seriously, this is why I started the Gresham/System thread. Forget the local "laws" the 2nd Amendment is CRYSTAL CLEAR. Shall not be infringed!

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff. State View Post
    How about the USA "Preemption statute"???????????

    "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed"

    Why in the He!! do people continue to ignore the 2nd Amendment??????????????????????

    Seriously, this is why I started the Gresham/System thread. Forget the local "laws" the 2nd Amendment is CRYSTAL CLEAR. Shall not be infringed!
    How do you propose that this Texas Park Ranger be brought into compliance with the outlook portrayed in your post?

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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    LCRA is a part of the State of Texas. Not familiar with Pace bend park, but from TPWD info below, it is a state park 'operated by Travis County'
    The park is government property one way or the other, so I think the Texas Park/Travis County ranger was blowing smoke up your tepee.
    Here is link to TPWD state park rules & regulations - under Section 59.134(d) looks like you're good to go, unless your shooting guns or brandishing
    http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/spdest/p...d_regulations/


    Also think castle doctrine would apply to your tent.
    (lake travis access - from TX Parks & Wildlife website) Pace Bend/Collier Cove. In Pace Bend park about 30 miles west of Austin. Take Texas 71 west to RR 2322 (Pace Bend Park Road). Turn right and travel 4.6 miles to the park entrance. Once inside, follow 2322 to Collier Cove ramp. One-lane concrete ramp Fee required Open all year
    Operated by Travis County Parks (512) 854-7275
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMark View Post
    How do you propose that this Texas Park Ranger be brought into compliance with the outlook portrayed in your post?
    Inform him of "the law of the land"/Constitution/2nd Amendment, remind him of his Oath if he took one, and that you will not comply with ILLEGAL non "laws".

    This needs to be the message nationwide coming from ALL gun owning CITIZENS.
    Last edited by Jeff. State; 10-14-2014 at 09:44 AM.

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff. State View Post
    How about the USA "Preemption statute"???????????


    "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed"



    Why in the He!! do people continue to ignore the 2nd Amendment??????????????????????


    Seriously, this is why I started the Gresham/System thread. Forget the local "laws" the 2nd Amendment is CRYSTAL CLEAR. Shall not be infringed!
    Great post but unless the majority of people live this out daily, it won't work. The police are too corrupt, judges uphold these unconstitutional 'laws' and one would have to go out only in big groups, heavily armed to defend against the almost certain attacks by the mafia of the town, which is of course paid for by the tax payer. 1-2 people or even a dozen people OCing in say downtown L.A and you can imagine the response. No, you need tens of thousands across the country all exercising their constitutional rights at once. Chances of that though are slim to none.
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    Great post but unless the majority of people live this out daily, it won't work. The police are too corrupt, judges uphold these unconstitutional 'laws' and one would have to go out only in big groups, heavily armed to defend against the almost certain attacks by the mafia of the town, which is of course paid for by the tax payer. 1-2 people or even a dozen people OCing in say downtown L.A and you can imagine the response. No, you need tens of thousands across the country all exercising their constitutional rights at once. Chances of that though are slim to none.
    Not to distract from the OP, but organizations in Texas actually have made this sort of challenge to unconstitutional weapons prohibitions in parks. For instance, at the Alamo in San Antonio... Many of the demonstrations, rallies, gatherings, and protests that have occurred there were in violation of city ordinance. The ordinance(s), of course, were in violation of both the Texas and the US constitutions and were preempted by state statute, making them null and void on at least 3 counts*.

    On that website, in the OP, that is just a rule list, that I'm guessing they can make up themselves more or less arbitrarily. It says, for violations, "Any violation of park rules may result in the confiscation of park permit(s) and removal from the park for a period not less than 48 hours." I'm guessing they would have to utilize trespassing laws to try and actually enforce any of the rules, if the rules don't coincide with any law. In the case of the firearms rule, I don't think they would be able to get away with that one if it went before a court.

    *my opinion, not a lawyer.
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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff. State View Post
    Inform him of "the law of the land"/Constitution/2nd Amendment, remind him of his Oath if he took one, and that you will not comply with ILLEGAL non "laws".

    This needs to be the message nationwide coming from ALL gun owning CITIZENS.
    You've had good luck telling LEOs that you won't comply with their laws? That usually sways them to your point of view?

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    My apologies for posting in the wrong forum. First of all, I've seen this guy and his attitude before. He's always running around patrolling and I've gotten the vibe that the other park rangers get tired of his over-zealous law enforecment. He watches and waits for the smallest infractions and then confronts you with an attitude about his park and his rules and the people that "think they can do whatever they want." He has been very unprofessional to a female friend of mine before over the "open display of consumption" rule, which is basically you can drink you just can't have the beer can visible. I wish I would have gotten him on video. I pay taxes to Travis Country as I live here, so I refuse to let some idiot park ranger keep me from enjoying the county parks, but this time I've had enough of him.

    The point of the post is that I was already certain that the rule was in violation of Texas CHL law, as sate law preempts any local firearm ordinances, but what should have been a simple traffic slop and him telling me to slow down turned into a big ordeal with him calling in backup and harassing us about our CHLs. Travis County is where Austin is located and is very liberal, so my guess is he doesn't like that he has to let people in with guns, but I was hoping to bring some awareness to the TSRA about my experience since he's Travis County law enforcement.

    A park ranger harassing people about drinking and parking on the grass because he has nothing better to do is one thing. Him saying his park rules come before state law is another.
    Last edited by TerranAce007; 10-14-2014 at 07:41 PM.

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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    would think you could file a complaint w your state senator or rep on this idiot and clip his wings - loose cannon w threat if lawsuit or altercation


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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMark View Post
    You've had good luck telling LEOs that you won't comply with their laws? That usually sways them to your point of view?

    It's called civil disobedience, and if you have enough people being "disobedient" especially if they are armed, LEO's will not initiate force or they will spark something they KNOW they don't want.

    Go it alone and "martyr" as others have said would be an appropriate term.

    Too bad we have NO VOICE on a national level with the courage to stand for what is RIGHT and rally ALL gun owners to action to take back the 2nd Amendment for real. We had rallys all across this country at State Capitals after Sandy Hook when threats were made to further the infringements. Those rallys were grass roots and The People were the stopping factor against the gungrabbers, NOT the NRA etc.

    We need a national PEACEFUL movement again, thousands in each State need to gather and Openly and publically disobey OC, CC, "assault weapons", "hi cap" magazine, etc. "laws". Let it be a starting point and put ALL "authorities" on notice their illegal, unconstitutional "laws" will no longer be recognized by the CITIZENS of this Nation.

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerranAce007 View Post
    My apologies for posting in the wrong forum. First of all, I've seen this guy and his attitude before. He's always running around patrolling and I've gotten the vibe that the other park rangers get tired of his over-zealous law enforecment. He watches and waits for the smallest infractions and then confronts you with an attitude about his park and his rules and the people that "think they can do whatever they want." He has been very unprofessional to a female friend of mine before over the "open display of consumption" rule, which is basically you can drink you just can't have the beer can visible. I wish I would have gotten him on video. I pay taxes to Travis Country as I live here, so I refuse to let some idiot park ranger keep me from enjoying the county parks, but this time I've had enough of him.

    The point of the post is that I was already certain that the rule was in violation of Texas CHL law, as sate law preempts any local firearm ordinances, but what should have been a simple traffic slop and him telling me to slow down turned into a big ordeal with him calling in backup and harassing us about our CHLs. Travis County is where Austin is located and is very liberal, so my guess is he doesn't like that he has to let people in with guns, but I was hoping to bring some awareness to the TSRA about my experience since he's Travis County law enforcement.

    A park ranger harassing people about drinking and parking on the grass because he has nothing better to do is one thing. Him saying his park rules come before state law is another.
    I hope the TSRA listens and puts forth an effort to remedy the situation, but personally I don't have much faith in them having a great effect.

    Really there may not be anything an organization can really do in this situation other than pursue the legislature to get them to fix laws and strengthen protections for those that choose to prepare themselves to defend themselves. I don't see in the TSRA's history them doing that, myself. I would hop on board with one of the organizations that have the right goals set and aren't willing to compromise or monetize on the situation.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff. State View Post
    We need a national PEACEFUL movement again, thousands in each State need to gather and Openly and publically disobey OC, CC, "assault weapons", "hi cap" magazine, etc. "laws". Let it be a starting point and put ALL "authorities" on notice their illegal, unconstitutional "laws" will no longer be recognized by the CITIZENS of this Nation.
    I've heard it said that for most demonstrations, they represent about 2% of the population. Sure LEOs may well leave 10,000 LA OCers alone but they'd have to keep it up for awhile and it would have to be national. Sadly too many people just submit and obey. If there was a local group such as this, i'd join in a moment.

    Far as TX is concerned a good starting point would be 10,000 people OCing handguns. They think it's illegal but of course it isnt.
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    Far as TX is concerned a good starting point would be 10,000 people OCing handguns. They think it's illegal but of course it isnt.

    Exactly!

    Texas citizens need to come together and have 10-15K+ show up at the Capitol in Austin with MODERN handguns Open carried on their hips, in shoulder rigs, etc. and let Rick "Gardasil" Perry know even if he wont "allow" OC in Texas, the 2nd Amendment does.

    Same thing in California, with OC handguns ALL loaded with 11 rounds or more!

    Repeat this around the country with OC/CC sans permission slips/etc. and the antis/STATISTS would have nothing they could do. Yet the NRA, SAF, Tom Gresham, etc. would NEVER promote this and help it come to realization.


    So............


    It's up to the People, just like stopping the post Sandy Hook gungrabbers.
    Last edited by Jeff. State; 10-14-2014 at 09:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Is that difficult to understand?
    Is this difficult to understand?

    "Texas Local Government Code Sec. 235.023. PROHIBITED REGULATIONS. This subchapter does not authorize the commissioners court to regulate the transfer, ownership, possession, or transportation of firearms or air guns and does not authorize the court to require the registration of firearms or air guns."

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    Quote Originally Posted by TerranAce007 View Post
    I've only been there a few times, but seem to get hasseled by this guy for something everytime. He's even yelled at me for parking on the grass at a campsite.
    He pulled us over to warn us about our speed on the park road and when he asked for my driver's license,
    So, you always get hasseled, you park on the grass, you get pulled over for speeding. You my friend are a stand up guy who should be above reproach.

    I have been camping all over Central Texas for the past 25 years and have never been bothered by the Park Rangers, maybe I am doing something wrong.

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superbee24 View Post
    So, you always get hasseled, you park on the grass, you get pulled over for speeding. You my friend are a stand up guy who should be above reproach.

    I have been camping all over Central Texas for the past 25 years and have never been bothered by the Park Rangers, maybe I am doing something wrong.
    What? You create an account to make this post? What is your point here?
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    What? You create an account to make this post? What is your point here?

    I have been on these forum for years (just never bothered to sign in). The OP also signed in just to post (his post count is 2) but I don't see you calling him out.

    My point is pretty clear, maybe the problem is the OP not the Ranger.

    Like I said, I have been camping for over two decades and NEVER had an issue with any Ranger, but did have "concerns" over morons who speed through the campgrounds where kids are playing and generally act like fools.

    I appreciate the Ranger doing his job and keeping the campgrounds safe for EVERYONE.

    Peace out Brother :-)
    Last edited by superbee24; 11-06-2014 at 05:58 PM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superbee24 View Post
    I have been on these forum for years (just never bothered to sign in). The OP also signed in just to post (his post count is 2) but I don't see you calling him out.

    My point is pretty clear, maybe the problem is the OP not the Ranger.

    Like I said, I have been camping for over two decades and NEVER had an issue with any Ranger, but did have "concerns" over morons who speed through the campgrounds where kids are playing and generally act like fools.

    I appreciate the Ranger doing his job and keeping the campgrounds safe for EVERYONE.

    Peace out Brother :-)
    Well, thanks for the clarification
    Advocate freedom please

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