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Thread: How to monitor police activity while OC?

  1. #1
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    Question How to monitor police activity while OC?

    Hello,

    A while back I was more involved in OC. Getting back into it now. Besides being observant, what's the best way to know when police have been called about you?

    During one of my OC walks, a crazy neighbor (who I did not know) confronted me on the street. While I was walking by, he came out of his house to accost me. I did not respond and went on my way. I could see that he was getting on a phone to call the police, so I walked away down the block, out of his sight, and entered my dwelling. A short while later, the area was absolutely swarming with police. They had to have had at least five if not more vehicles there, searching up and down the street in a determined and coordinated way. Police had many long guns and looked ready to do battle. It was a manhunt. (I might have posted about this back when it happened - I forget.) Fortunately they had no sense of the suspect's location, nor any evidence which building he might have entered, and so they were confined to searching the street, and that was basically that.

    Anyway, that incident turned me off from OC, and I haven't done it much since. Now that I'm getting into it again, I'm concerned about the prejudice and fear of others who are not educated about our rights. If I had been caught outdoors by surprise by the police last time, things may have gone very differently: I'm certain that in the least I would have been put on the ground at gunpoint and disarmed (the cops looked really worked up). It's easy to imagine things turning out worse than that due to a mistake or misunderstanding.

    Since I abide by the law and do not commit crimes, I was wondering: is there an effective way to monitor police dispatch in the Seattle area? I would like to get a heads-up if a citizen has become unreasonably alarmed and made the mistake of reporting my lawful activity as a crime in progress. Are police scanners effective for this purpose, and is there any you'd recommend? This may give me the time that I need to react, such as calling the police myself, or deciding to leave the area, or deciding to stay in the area (if I was leaving), etc. Plus I would hate to leave an area and trigger a ruckus after I've departed without knowing it. Will such a call reliably go out across a frequency I can scan?

    Thanks in advance for any help,

    Hem
    Last edited by Hemry; 10-14-2014 at 12:05 AM.

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    Also:

    What would you do with the information that police have been called about you? What should you do?

    I am planning to bring a camera with me to record just in case, for my own protection. That will give me the warning to turn it on, if I cannot leave it running the entire time. However, if no crime has been committed (and certainly none will be by me), my understanding is that I have no obligation to stay. If a "situation" unfolds like I'm describing, I will likely be walking anyway, so staying would be a deliberate choice.

    I've watched some videos recently of OCers and drivers asserting their rights with police, which have bolstered my pride in the OC community, and my confidence in being able to do the same. Part of me would want to stay to flex my rights. The other part of me would want to avoid conflict if at all possible. A balance might be something like watching from a distance to check out the temperature of the situation.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    When I first started carrying openly, the local Sheriff's Department wasn't exactly thrilled. A big, burly cop said that 'each and every time they got a call about me that they were going to take it seriously and respond with overwhelming force.' And 'overwhelming' was definitely a bit emphasized.

    I just smiled, remained polite and asked if I it was sufficient advance notice that I'd be openly carrying the next Tuesday at _______ and could I go ahead and pencil them in so that they could plan accordingly. I also said that in the interests of being as cooperative as possible should I call them and tell them where I was going to be later that day so that they could coordinate their efforts.

    'Well we're going to respond every time, if you want to play that game, sir.'
    'I can't stop you from playing games, Sergeant, and I really do enjoy our talks. So... pencil you in for next Tuesday then?'

    It didn't take them long to be trained to leave me alone.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    If the situation looks like it may go south (and by that I mean you may wind up on the ground) you can either look for a comfy spot with no cockles or fire ants, or preemptively go to knees and ground with your hands up, loudly exclaiming, "Hands Up! Don't Shoot!" it might shame some into behaving better.

    Never object to being told to sit, stand, hop on one leg, or surrender your weapon temporarily; it's a battle you cannot win on the side of the road. Best course of action is to give a silly grin and cooperate since a confrontation is just what they need to escalate the situation.

    Many carriers study the law and can quote chapter and verse as to what law the police aren't following. Don't bother, Officer Friendly has been trained to Not listen to all the criminals telling him how they're not guilty because xxx xxx xxxxx. Much as it hurts at the time, remaining silent except to assert your right to remain silent is probably your best bet. You might or might not be able to talk your way out of an arrest but it's a surety that you can talk yourself into one.

    Lastly, "How do we know you're not a felon? or how do we know (whatever) is not a reasonable articulation of suspicion. "I suspect you're a criminal because you xxx'd" might be.

    Explaining your conduct as being legal doesn't mean Officer Friendly's suspicions are allayed, it just means that Officer Friendly has been asking the wrong questions and needs to continue his investigation to find out what crime you have committed. Don't play his game.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    I refuse to give then any information.

    I ask, "Am I free to leave?"

    If they say no, "This is no longer a consensual encounter and I will not be answering any more questions until I have legal council present."

    If they refuse to answer the first question the first time, just keep repeating the question. When they say that "yes you are free to leave" then do so.

    Carry an audio recorder recording the whole time, you do not have to notify them that you are recording. This is useful when it becomes a pleb said elite said situation. You will have what the elite said recorded so you can call them a liar on the witness stand.
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    Regular Member SovereignAxe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    I refuse to give then any information.

    I ask, "Am I free to leave?"

    If they say no, "This is no longer a consensual encounter and I will not be answering any more questions until I have legal council present."

    If they refuse to answer the first question the first time, just keep repeating the question. When they say that "yes you are free to leave" then do so.

    Carry an audio recorder recording the whole time, you do not have to notify them that you are recording. This is useful when it becomes a pleb said elite said situation. You will have what the elite said recorded so you can call them a liar on the witness stand.
    Unless they decide to erase everything on it when they arrest you.

    That's something I've been trying to figure out. Unfortunately no voice recorder that I know of encrypts its data, and I can't afford to be running down the battery on my smart phone running it as a voice recorder all the time.
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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    There is an app available for your phone to play a scanner channel for your local pee dee. Supposed to be free, use an earphone, listen to the comedy.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    How does the OP know he abides the law? This would imply that he knows all the laws. Almost a certainty that he does not.

    Everyone should assume that they are a lawbreaker...hence the heightened awareness of the need not to talk to the police or any gov't official.

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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    OC w a buddy/girl/child-in-stroller for a while. Mosey on down to...a Local ....coffee shop or juice bar....
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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Why not schedule a meeting with the town's police chief and tell him you have a neighbor who is wasting police time and resources by calling in spurious accounts when he sees you with a firearm. Get the chief to agree to talk to his men and the dispatchers and even possibly charge the neighbor with filing a false report?

    Direct action vs passive.

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    Regular Member EirikBlodok's Avatar
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    http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/ctid/2974

    this is a scanner link I use, it may be of some interest to people here.
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  12. #12
    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignAxe View Post
    Unless they decide to erase everything on it when they arrest you.

    That's something I've been trying to figure out. Unfortunately no voice recorder that I know of encrypts its data, and I can't afford to be running down the battery on my smart phone running it as a voice recorder all the time.
    There are apps that stream remotely and once recorded the data can never be erased, even by you if you log into it.

    http://reason.com/blog/2012/06/29/co...l-keep-authori

    http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/capi...ty-tool/nhNg9/

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    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
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    FALL,

    With all due respect this isn't Georgia and you're advice is pretty terrible.

    I have had several interactions with WA law enforcement. both good and bad.

    The behavior we stress here-
    .be polite
    .be educated on the law
    .always record
    .always ask-why am I being detained, am I free to leave
    .citing the law does work, my interactions with a local deputy lasted all of 20 seconds when I cited terry v ohio when he demanded ID without RAS.
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  14. #14
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    hem, query...
    how long ago did this experience occur? under what name did you post the encounter you are referencing?

    1. have you asked for a FOI about your incident to see exactly what was told to 911. you might discern the 911 call was placed because of your clothing? your demure? the caller might have said you spouted off? or you threatened the caller? or or or or...

    2. you might ascertain, unbeknownst to you there was a man hunt for a serial killer who escaped from police custody at relatively the same time.

    once armed with the information that set the caller off you can change that aspect of your open carry routine and possibly allay your projective fears a bit.

    two things are clear, one, there could be or is more to your encounter that you might or are failing to recollect in your post; which leads me to my second item: why are you projecting these thoughts of being man handled by police when, from your statements, you did not interact with the police.

    i am concerned that your projection, if you have not been man handled by police previously, which is totally uncharacteristic of a normal interaction response in dealing with LEs in general. additionally, your comment you wish to monitor LE frequencies is worrisome, just to see quote I would like to get a heads-up if a citizen has become unreasonably alarmed and made the mistake of reporting my lawful activity as a crime in progress. unquote

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 10-14-2014 at 10:23 PM.
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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EirikBlodok View Post
    http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/ctid/2974

    this is a scanner link I use, it may be of some interest to people here.
    I think Tunin Radio has some PDs and thats available via smartphone app as well as PC/laptop. Used to be you could get the local PD to enable your scanner to receive the digital police broadcasts but that was 10 years ago. No idea about nowadays
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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignAxe View Post
    Unless they decide to erase everything on it when they arrest you.

    That's something I've been trying to figure out. Unfortunately no voice recorder that I know of encrypts its data, and I can't afford to be running down the battery on my smart phone running it as a voice recorder all the time.
    I would recommend this app for your smartphone. It is intended for a different purpose, but you basically "arm" the app whenever you are walking around OC and then if a LEO approaches you - start recording. The app automatically records and broadcasts the audio/video to a secure server so you don't have to worry about it being deleted.

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    http://www.cnet.com/news/aclu-app-le...pe-the-police/
    Never had an issue with police, or citizens. Carry on, and don't stress and make to much out of it.
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  18. #18
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlepnier View Post
    FALL[s],
    With all due respect this isn't Georgia and you're advice is pretty terrible.
    It ain't Kalamazoo either, but I don't recall mentioning anything specific to Georgia. I guess hoping for something substantive is too much to expect?

    Is there a specific paragraph that you find objectionable?

    Perhaps you recommend looking for a thoroughly nasty place to be thrown down to?

    Or, maybe your advice is to object to the nice officer's commands, perhaps even to obstruct or fight with him?

    I gather you believe that quoting a state law that Officer Friendly either doesn't know or care about is going to change his mind about what is legal and what isn't?

    Or, is it that you just feel that someone is obligated to answer any question posed by the nice man who's just looking for evidence of a crime?
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 10-15-2014 at 07:01 AM.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    It ain't Kalamazoo either, but I don't recall mentioning anything specific to Georgia. I guess hoping for something substantive is too much to expect?

    Is there a specific paragraph that you find objectionable?

    Perhaps you recommend looking for a thoroughly nasty place to be thrown down to?

    Or, maybe your advice is to object to the nice officer's commands, perhaps even to obstruct or fight with him?

    I gather you believe that quoting a state law that Officer Friendly either doesn't know or care about is going to change his mind about what is legal and what isn't?

    Or, is it that you just feel that someone is obligated to answer any question posed by the nice man who's just looking for evidence of a crime?
    Your recommendations re-enforce bad behavior on the part of the officer, being polite yet firm and also knowing the law(they assume you don't so they think they can abuse you) is a better way to handle these encounters. not every officer will approach in a hostile manner and even if they do you should not respond in kind. even so, not every word coming out of an officers mouth is a lawful order that must be obeyed.

    The reason your geographic location matters is that laws are different and attitudes are different in Georgia than they are here. if you want to give advise do so for people in your area not in our state that's thousands of miles from you.

    Further what I quoted is actually a federal law not state, in fact it is a supreme court decision of some magnitude that every officer should know as it directly effects how they can and cannot do their job.

    This is a fine example of how to properly interact with a LEO who is acting improperly.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfdEb...layer_embedded

    Another excellent example-notice how pissed off the cops get when they realize he knows the law and they cannot mess with him.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7UMdniHWkI

    Then there is the complete silent treatment-

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n1BHJs5V5c
    Last edited by Schlepnier; 10-15-2014 at 10:41 AM.
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  20. #20
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Police can hassle you for anything whether armed or not. I once had a deputy that told me I was trespassing for walking alongside a public highway. I had run over something in the road and wanted to see what it was.
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  21. #21
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlepnier View Post
    snip...
    The reason your geographic location matters is that laws are different and attitudes are different in Georgia than they are here. if you want to give advise do so for people in your area not in our state that's thousands of miles from you.

    Further what I quoted is actually a federal law not state, in fact it is a supreme court decision of some magnitude that every officer should know as it directly effects how they can and cannot do their job.

    snip...
    schlepnier, perhaps you could pin point out to this individual, where Fall stated his information was specific to the Peach state as I know I have been accused of have poor reading comprehension, but goodness I didn't seen where he was specific?

    further, as you reference above, again with my poor reading comprehension, you state you quoted a federal law?

    finally to the initial poster...go find a book called 'you and the police' by boston t party...quite informative and a quick read...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    When I first started carrying openly, the local Sheriff's Department wasn't exactly thrilled. A big, burly cop said that 'each and every time they got a call about me that they were going to take it seriously and respond with overwhelming force.' And 'overwhelming' was definitely a bit emphasized.

    I just smiled, remained polite and asked if I it was sufficient advance notice that I'd be openly carrying the next Tuesday at _______ and could I go ahead and pencil them in so that they could plan accordingly. I also said that in the interests of being as cooperative as possible should I call them and tell them where I was going to be later that day so that they could coordinate their efforts.

    'Well we're going to respond every time, if you want to play that game, sir.'
    'I can't stop you from playing games, Sergeant, and I really do enjoy our talks. So... pencil you in for next Tuesday then?'

    It didn't take them long to be trained to leave me alone.
    I love it !!

  23. #23
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Yeah, next thing ya know, someone'll remind Schlepnier that I was born and spent my first 21 years in sleepy little Prosser before joining the military and expanding my horizons a bit. I've only been on the east coast for the last decade or so.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
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    Solus
    in his first post he relate how he interacted with his local LEO, this frames the manner of interaction in hi second post where he suggests a level of passive consent to unlawful behaviour by officers.

    The foundation of our republic is that we are the government. the government serves at the behest of the governed. LEOs at times forget they are public servants. since they are trained to take control of a situation this sometimes leads entreched patterns of bad behavior that if not challenged, will re-enforce this type of bad behaviour.

    The reasons why the federal statutes are important to know is because they apply everywhere, in addition to relevant local and state laws. They dictate the limits of an officers ability to detain, sieze, demand ID and so forth.

    Something like a "terry stop" is something every officer must know, if we as citizens also know the limitations it prevents abuse, as in the first video Iinked shows.
    +thought for the day+
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  25. #25
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    dog gone it Schlepnier, blame it on my poor reading comprehension again, but you keep stating the nice law enforcement should know these federal regulations but what occurred to the nice police force down the road from you in the beautiful round the bend of the road city of Roy?

    oh and you did in your last post mention 'terry stop' but can you tell me what specific federal statute this is so i can quote the statute # the next time i'm stopped by nice peace officers? there is a statute number, isn't there?

    Fall, you just ran away and escaped from Sunnside's stench...luck person

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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