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Thread: Why it's important to record police officers

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Why it's important to record police officers

    This video is an outstanding example of why it's important to record police officers.

    While the subject of this video is about a cop trying to profile a frisbee golfer as a pot-smoker, this could just as easily be a stop where firearms are involved.

    The reason I'm posting this here is because the driver did such a good job of handling the cop. He was calm, cool, and collected, even while the cop kept trying to get his goat.

    Excellent example.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    LEO playing dumb word games.. Citizen was OK however, at some point he needed to simply remain silent.. and ask am I free to go...

    Time is money,, the less time having a silly conversation with an idiot the better off a citizen will be..

    My .02

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    This video is an outstanding example of why it's important to record police officers.

    While the subject of this video is about a cop trying to profile a frisbee golfer as a pot-smoker, this could just as easily be a stop where firearms are involved.

    The reason I'm posting this here is because the driver did such a good job of handling the cop. He was calm, cool, and collected, even while the cop kept trying to get his goat.

    Excellent example.
    The best response I've heard in response to an officer trying to trap a citizen is, "I don't answer probative questions." This is effectively followed by "Am I free to go?" and, if necessary, "I do not consent to any searches or seizures of my person, papers or property." Otherwise, it's time to KYBMS!
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    [ ... ] "I don't answer probative questions." [ ... ] Otherwise, it's time to KYBMS!
    I don't think probative means what you think it does.

    I believe it is an instance of the unlettered struggling for the appearance of literacy and embracing the dictionary fallacy. To appear literate requires reading beyond narrow personal and professional interests, it requires a liberal education, the trivium AND quadrivium. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/v...lous/#comments
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    This officer it appears barely passed the "which hand is yours?" test.
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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    I don't think probative means what you think it does.
    I was quoting the speaker in the video; however, based on the following:

    Probative

    Having the effect of proof, tending to prove, or actually proving.

    When a legal controversy goes to trial, the parties seek to prove their cases by the introduction of evidence. All courts are governed by rules of evidence that describe what types of evidence are admissible. One key element for the admission of evidence is whether it proves or helps prove a fact or issue. If so, the evidence is deemed probative. Probative evidence establishes or contributes to proof.

    Probative facts are data that have the effect of proving an issue or other information. Probative facts establish the existence of other facts. They are matters of evidence that make the existence of something more probable or less probable than it would be without them. They are admissible as evidence and aid the court in the final resolution of a disputed issue. For example, in the case of a motor vehicle accident, a witness's testimony that she saw one automobile enter the intersection on a red light is a probative fact about whether the driver was at fault.

    ... it seems to me that an officer asking "probing" questions is seeking to establish "Probative facts [that] establish the existence of other facts" that would lead to other actions including search, seizure or arrest. I have no problem with using the word "probative," especially since it has a legalistic meaning and because the officer probably does not understand what the word is.

    If you don't like the use of that word, feel free to use some other word.
    Last edited by JamesCanby; 10-14-2014 at 09:01 AM.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I doubt the officer understood what the word means, he was clearly being a buffoon.
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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I doubt the officer understood what the word means, he was clearly being a buffoon.
    Sorry, I was not clear in my statement -- I was referring to an entirely different video wherein the driver refused to answer any questions that didn't specifically relate to the reason why the officer stopped him.

    Particularly useful, IMO, as an answer to questions such as:

    Where are you coming from?
    Where are you going?
    Do you have anything illegal in your car?
    Have you had anything to drink tonight?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    The best response I've heard in response to an officer trying to trap a citizen is, "I don't answer probative questions." This is effectively followed by "Am I free to go?" and, if necessary, "I do not consent to any searches or seizures of my person, papers or property." Otherwise, it's time to KYBMS!
    Such high praise ... thank you

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Such high praise ... thank you
    In what universe could you possibly think I was referring to you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    In what universe could you possibly think I was referring to you?
    I don't answer probative questions .... you were complimenting me (unknowingly) .. that's what I tell 'em.

    Its OK, your head won't explode.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 10-14-2014 at 11:45 AM.

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Why is it that everyone who plays frisbee golf smokes dope?
    Great counter question would be "Why is it that everybody that wears a badge is an @hole?"
    Last edited by F350; 10-14-2014 at 04:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    Great counter question would be "Why is it that everybody that wears a badge is an @hole?"
    Yeah, I'm *sure* that's a great counter question. I'll use it at parties. Maybe.

    I'm more inclined to use the non-"probative" response, regardless of the misnomer. Something along the lines of, "Declined," as in "I decline to answer all questions and do not consent to any searches of my person, effects, vehicles, or home."

    If they ask why, I'm inclined to respond with, "That's a question. Am I being detained? (pause) Since you're not detaining me, I'll be on my way."

    Calm... Cool... Polite...
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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    Great counter question would be "Why is it that everybody that wears a badge is an @hole?"

    Sorry, your post made me LOL and almost cover myself in milk (finally having dinner).

    As others have already noted, answering their questions can only get you in trouble. If you MUST say something, stick to repeating either "Am I free to go?" or the definition of the law (so that it will be recorded that the officer did not want to hear the law he was supposed to (allegedly) enforce.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    Sorry, I was not clear in my statement -- I was referring to an entirely different video wherein the driver refused to answer any questions that didn't specifically relate to the reason why the officer stopped him.

    Particularly useful, IMO, as an answer to questions such as:

    Where are you coming from?
    Where are you going?
    Do you have anything illegal in your car?
    Have you had anything to drink tonight?
    I was actually asked these questions in a traffic stop and refused to answer. When the trial came, I asked if the cop knew the information that he sought and he said no...and it actually impacted the outcome of the case.

    So, you never know what answer to a query can hurt you down the road...refuse to answer is the best policy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I was actually asked these questions in a traffic stop and refused to answer. When the trial came, I asked if the cop knew the information that he sought and he said no...and it actually impacted the outcome of the case.

    So, you never know what answer to a query can hurt you down the road...refuse to answer is the best policy.
    Excellent example.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Anyone else make note of the location of this article? A tech website, nothing to do with police accountability. How big is our problem with this sort of police behavior that we now have police accountability content creeping into dedicated industry specific sites?
    Advocate freedom please

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I was actually asked these questions in a traffic stop and refused to answer. When the trial came, I asked if the cop knew the information that he sought and he said no...and it actually impacted the outcome of the case.
    I don't follow this. It sounds like you left out a word or something.

    What was the trial for? What did you ask the cop if he knew the answer(s) to 'Where are you going?', and how was he supposed to already know that?

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