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Thread: The MURDER of Timothy Mitchell

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    The MURDER of Timothy Mitchell

    "Criminal charges were not brought against Officer Justin Schlabach in the July shooting death of Timothy Mitchell. Marquette County Prosecutor Matt Wiese said Schlabach lawfully acted in self-defense when Mitchell aggressively advanced toward him after a high-speed chase."

    http://wnmufm.org/post/geoffrey-fieg...nising-officer

    Video of the shooting:

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    "Criminal charges were not brought against Officer Justin Schlabach in the July shooting death of Timothy Mitchell. Marquette County Prosecutor Matt Wiese said Schlabach lawfully acted in self-defense when Mitchell aggressively advanced toward him after a high-speed chase."

    http://wnmufm.org/post/geoffrey-fieg...nising-officer

    Video of the shooting:

    Your links broken.

    And why only 3 minutes of video? What happened prior to the shooting? Why was this dude walking toward the officer? To shake his hand?

    Why were the cops chasing him?

    PS. Every time someone is killed by another its MURDER. Difference is whether or not its "justified" as in say self defence. So why your title is meant be sensational. Its really just stupid.
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Your links broken.

    And why only 3 minutes of video? What happened prior to the shooting? Why was this dude walking toward the officer? To shake his hand?

    Why were the cops chasing him?

    PS. Every time someone is killed by another its MURDER. Difference is whether or not its "justified" as in say self defence. So why your title is meant be sensational. Its really just stupid.
    Maybe he's running for public office and just wanted his vote. I see a car in the ditch..and he is/was an attny.



    I guess we'll find out more as the civil case moves forward. The cam vid is not that great.

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Your links broken.

    And why only 3 minutes of video? What happened prior to the shooting? Why was this dude walking toward the officer? To shake his hand?

    Why were the cops chasing him?

    PS. Every time someone is killed by another its MURDER. Difference is whether or not its "justified" as in say self defence. So why your title is meant be sensational. Its really just stupid.
    I'm pretty sure if it's justified SD it's not considered murder. The all caps are meant to signify The Truth, not a prosecutor's opinion.

    There is only 3 minutes because... did you even watch it? The cops had backed off and just caught up to him after he crashed.

    The guy was just in a high speed chase with the cop and had crashed. The cop claims the man said he was going to have to kill him. I guess that's license to kill now? The guy took a couple steps toward the cop. You may interpret the movements differently, but I saw no threatening movement, just a shaken up idiot who just crashed his car after running from the cops probably yapping his trap at the cop he had just run from. Also, the reason he was being chased was because he was just in some sort of altercation. It was known that the man was "highly intoxicated." Apparently the cops had backed off for a while because speed was in such excess.

    I'm not defending any criminal action on the part of the guy who ran. I'm pointing out the skewed perspective of what happened.

    http://abc10up.com/munising-area-res...lice-shootout/
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    I'd cite this as an example of better training being needed, but I'm not sure if it qualifies as murder.

    A strong argument could be made that advancing on an armed person who is himself retreating constitutes demonstrated lethal intent and means (what happens when he reaches the cop? how far does the cop have to retreat to avoid the guy?).

    Discuss.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    I'd cite this as an example of better training being needed, but I'm not sure if it qualifies as murder.

    A strong argument could be made that advancing on an armed person who is himself retreating constitutes demonstrated lethal intent and means (what happens when he reaches the cop? how far does the cop have to retreat to avoid the guy?).

    Discuss.
    Well said. I also agree more training may have help.

    As I asked.... Why was the guy walking towards the cop who had his gun drawn? To shake his hand? Does the cop put his gun away and his hands up and hope the guy doesn't kick his head in or kill him?
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Well said. I also agree more training may have help.

    As I asked.... Why was the guy walking towards the cop who had his gun drawn? To shake his hand? Does the cop put his gun away and his hands up and hope the guy doesn't kick his head in or kill him?
    We train monkeys not people

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    I'm pretty sure if it's justified SD it's not considered murder. The all caps are meant to signify The Truth, not a prosecutor's opinion.

    There is only 3 minutes because... did you even watch it? The cops had backed off and just caught up to him after he crashed.

    The guy was just in a high speed chase with the cop and had crashed. The cop claims the man said he was going to have to kill him. I guess that's license to kill now? The guy took a couple steps toward the cop. You may interpret the movements differently, but I saw no threatening movement, just a shaken up idiot who just crashed his car after running from the cops probably yapping his trap at the cop he had just run from. Also, the reason he was being chased was because he was just in some sort of altercation. It was known that the man was "highly intoxicated." Apparently the cops had backed off for a while because speed was in such excess.

    I'm not defending any criminal action on the part of the guy who ran. I'm pointing out the skewed perspective of what happened.

    http://abc10up.com/munising-area-res...lice-shootout/
    Based on new info in the thread ... I declare IMO it was murder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Well said. I also agree more training may have help.

    As I asked.... Why was the guy walking towards the cop who had his gun drawn? To shake his hand? Does the cop put his gun away and his hands up and hope the guy doesn't kick his head in or kill him?
    If I were the cop, I would not have shot the guy like that. The guy was "highly intoxicated" and the dispatchers were aware of this. I have to assume that they communicated this fact to the pursuing officers. There is also no mention of the man being armed, and he wasn't armed, nor did he pretend to have a gun, reach for a gun, or say that he had a gun. The cop claims the guy said "you're going to have to kill me." That's it. Sorry, but lethal force was not necessary in my opinion. Aren't cops trained with any type of self defense other than mag dumps?
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    Aren't cops trained with any type of self defense other than mag dumps?
    It seems not. It seems as though they view every other tool in their arsenal as merely compliance-gaining devices.

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    If you tell me you are going to kill me, while I have my gun drawn, and advance towards me, I'll likely do a mag dump into you.
    Last edited by notalawyer; 10-15-2014 at 09:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    It seems not. It seems as though they view every other tool in their arsenal as merely compliance-gaining devices.
    Perfectly put, "compliance-gaining" devices. This is the difference between "civilian" carry and cop carry in Amerika now.

    This is possibly 2nd degree murder.

    Funny, we put George Zimmerman on trial for 2nd degree when it was clearly self defense, yet this cop gets off completely free for what is not so clearly self defense. Why?

    Because "some animals are more equal than other animals. "
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Why was this dude walking toward the officer? To shake his hand?
    So if someone who is unarmed is walking towards me the same way the deceased "walked towards" the officer I wont be charged with killing him if I shoot him DRT?????

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    If you tell me you are going to kill me, while I have my gun drawn, and advance towards me, I'll likely do a mag dump into you.
    Totally irrelevant. Who said anything about "I'm going to kill you!"? What is it with people and garbage strawman/red herring arguments lately? The only thing that the guy said was "...you're going to have to kill me..." according to the cop that killed him. This thread wouldn't even exist if the guy had said, "I'm going to kill you!" to the cop.

    Another interesting twist is the cop had an audio recording device as well but it was mysteriously not turned on at the time of the shooting. You would think that the cop would have made up a better lie than "you're going to have to kill me" if his recorder was off.

    Apparently all the cop had to do was claim the suspect said "I'm going to kill you" and he would be justified in murdering a "highly intoxicated" unarmed man according to some here.
    Last edited by The Truth; 10-15-2014 at 09:44 PM. Reason: pronouns, how do they work?
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    Totally irrelevant. Who said anything about "I'm going to kill you!"? What is it with people and garbage strawman/red herring arguments lately? The only thing that the guy said was "...you're going to have to kill me..." according to the cop that killed him. This thread wouldn't even exist if the guy had said, "I'm going to kill you!" to the cop.

    Another interesting twist is the cop had an audio recording device as well but it was mysteriously not turned on at the time of the shooting. You would think that the cop would have made up a better lie than "you're going to have to kill me" if his recorder was off.

    Apparently all the cop had to do was claim the suspect said "I'm going to kill you" and he would be justified in murdering a "highly intoxicated" unarmed man according to some here.
    Forgive me I misread you post.....I've corrected mine reply below.

    You continue to advance towards me while I have a gun drawn on you, I'll will likely map dump into you.


    Is that better?

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Forgive me I misread you post.....I've corrected mine reply below.

    You continue to advance towards me while I have a gun drawn on you, I'll will likely map dump into you.


    Is that better?
    First of all if you draw on me might oughta kill me quick, because there is no peaceful ending to that situation. I'm not talking about me and a cop, you addressed me personally so that's how I'm replying. Second of all, as long as I am not assaulting you physically or threatening you, you would be breaking the law in most places by murdering me via mag dump for walking towards you, and in some places you'd be breaking the law for brandishing too. If we are in a public area I'll walk as close or as far away from you as a feel like, and I'll walk towards you if that's what I've got to do to get where I'm going.

    Also, advocating illegal acts is both illegal (duh) and against forum rules.

    Hopefully you're kidding.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    The title would seem to be inflammatory, knee jerk reaction.

    Murder, possibly justified or excusable, is part of the determination in a criminal trial; whereas this is being pursued as a civil matter.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Forgive me I misread you post.....I've corrected mine reply below.

    You continue to advance towards me while I have a gun drawn on you, I'll will likely map dump into you.


    Is that better?
    Do that in Florida, and I imagine most states, you're going to prison unless you are a blessed cop. But you (I assume) know that, being a lawyer.

    Now, if he came at me with a deadly weapon, and said "you're going to have to kill me", I would probably shoot, and the law would be on my side.
    Last edited by 77zach; 10-15-2014 at 11:32 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Actually this sounds more like suicide by cop. Statements paired with actions such as high speed chase and then advancing on cop who has gun drawn.....

    So what's the complaint? He got what he wanted apparently. I mean the cop is a public servant right? So that guy is the cops boss. So he told him what he wanted.

    Back to reality.... Context is everything. The entire set of actions not just "walking towards him" matters. Hence why I aaked where was the rest of the video and what occurred before.

    Something happened. Did he murder someone? Did he jay walk? Was he being chased for a tail light out?

    Like I said... Stupid sensationalism at its finest.
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    I don't think that prior actions in this case means that much .. eluding police warrants a shooting in this case? no.

    he's not in the car anymore ... so its irrelevant

    having a guy walk toward you is not sufficient

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    The title would seem to be inflammatory, knee jerk reaction.
    How is it a knee jerk reaction? There's video of the shooting! Don't you think shooting this man to death was a bit of a knee jerk reaction?

    Murder, possibly justified or excusable, is part of the determination in a criminal trial; whereas this is being pursued as a civil matter.
    Right, this is my point exactly. The prosecutor is kept firmly secure in the hip pockets of cops like this one who use excessive or deadly force on unarmed people. The cop will never see the inside of a criminal court because his master, the prosecutor, in all his infinite wisdom, opines that the shooting was justified. Replace the cop with an ordinary citizen and there's no question of what the outcome would be. Grand juries are just as much of a joke.

    I figured you'd move the thread. Too many views on the General Discussion board. Ohhh Grapeshot...
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Actually this sounds more like suicide by cop. Statements paired with actions such as high speed chase and then advancing on cop who has gun drawn.....

    So what's the complaint? He got what he wanted apparently. I mean the cop is a public servant right? So that guy is the cops boss. So he told him what he wanted.

    Back to reality.... Context is everything. The entire set of actions not just "walking towards him" matters. Hence why I aaked where was the rest of the video and what occurred before.

    Something happened. Did he murder someone? Did he jay walk? Was he being chased for a tail light out?

    Like I said... Stupid sensationalism at its finest.
    Oh Primus, if only that were always true for mundane non-cops such as myself. You did read/watch the George Zimmerman trial right?
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Actually this sounds more like suicide by cop. Statements paired with actions such as high speed chase and then advancing on cop who has gun drawn.....

    So what's the complaint? He got what he wanted apparently. I mean the cop is a public servant right? So that guy is the cops boss. So he told him what he wanted.
    Sadly, I know you are not kidding. I also know that this is the thought process of a lot of these guys with multiple kills under their belts. You really think you're doing the guy a favor. Hey, maybe you are - but it's not your place to do so.

    Back to reality.... Context is everything. The entire set of actions not just "walking towards him" matters. Hence why I aaked where was the rest of the video and what occurred before.

    Something happened. Did he murder someone? Did he jay walk? Was he being chased for a tail light out?
    Already answered this and posted a link to where I got the info. Also Google is your friend.

    Like I said... Stupid sensationalism at its finest.
    What exactly is sensationalist about this? The fact that I used all caps in a certain word, the fact that I disagree with a prosecutor, or something else? Ad hominem is a dirty drug my friend...


    I must question people's sanity when they agree that a clearly intoxicated person stumbling towards them unarmed poses an immediate threat to their lives. The guy looks like he's about to fall over the entire time. Without sound, it's hard to tell when he's actually shot!
    Last edited by The Truth; 10-15-2014 at 11:51 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    How is it a knee jerk reaction? There's video of the shooting! Don't you think shooting this man to death was a bit of a knee jerk reaction?



    Right, this is my point exactly. The prosecutor is kept firmly secure in the hip pockets of cops like this one who use excessive or deadly force on unarmed people. The cop will never see the inside of a criminal court because his master, the prosecutor, in all his infinite wisdom, opines that the shooting was justified. Replace the cop with an ordinary citizen and there's no question of what the outcome would be. Grand juries are just as much of a joke.

    I figured you'd move the thread. Too many views on the General Discussion board. Ohhh Grapeshot...
    It is a knee jerk reaction because all of the facts are not known - remains to be seen.

    The thread was moved because the General Discussion sub-forum is for things not pertaining to OC, but still in the RKBA realm.

    It is acceptable in MI (1) because that is where it occurred and (2) because a individual officer's actions are under scrutiny. I blanket indictment of the system (like your 2nd paragraph) reaches too far.

    I have never moved, edited, or deleted a thread because it had a high volume of views. There is a protocol established to which I adhere.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    You can find videos like this every day, what's the big deal that got this one posted?

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