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The MURDER of Timothy Mitchell

The Truth

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"Criminal charges were not brought against Officer Justin Schlabach in the July shooting death of Timothy Mitchell. Marquette County Prosecutor Matt Wiese said Schlabach lawfully acted in self-defense when Mitchell aggressively advanced toward him after a high-speed chase."

http://wnmufm.org/post/geoffrey-fieger-representing-parents-man-shot-munising-officer

Video of the shooting:

[video=youtube;G-aTO6JImA0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-aTO6JImA0[/video]
 

Primus

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"Criminal charges were not brought against Officer Justin Schlabach in the July shooting death of Timothy Mitchell. Marquette County Prosecutor Matt Wiese said Schlabach lawfully acted in self-defense when Mitchell aggressively advanced toward him after a high-speed chase."

http://wnmufm.org/post/geoffrey-fieger-representing-parents-man-shot-munising-officer

Video of the shooting:

[video=youtube;G-aTO6JImA0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-aTO6JImA0[/video]
Your links broken.

And why only 3 minutes of video? What happened prior to the shooting? Why was this dude walking toward the officer? To shake his hand?

Why were the cops chasing him?

PS. Every time someone is killed by another its MURDER. Difference is whether or not its "justified" as in say self defence. So why your title is meant be sensational. Its really just stupid.
 

davidmcbeth

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Your links broken.

And why only 3 minutes of video? What happened prior to the shooting? Why was this dude walking toward the officer? To shake his hand?

Why were the cops chasing him?

PS. Every time someone is killed by another its MURDER. Difference is whether or not its "justified" as in say self defence. So why your title is meant be sensational. Its really just stupid.

Maybe he's running for public office and just wanted his vote. I see a car in the ditch..and he is/was an attny.



I guess we'll find out more as the civil case moves forward. The cam vid is not that great.
 

The Truth

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Your links broken.

And why only 3 minutes of video? What happened prior to the shooting? Why was this dude walking toward the officer? To shake his hand?

Why were the cops chasing him?

PS. Every time someone is killed by another its MURDER. Difference is whether or not its "justified" as in say self defence. So why your title is meant be sensational. Its really just stupid.

I'm pretty sure if it's justified SD it's not considered murder. The all caps are meant to signify The Truth, not a prosecutor's opinion.

There is only 3 minutes because... did you even watch it? The cops had backed off and just caught up to him after he crashed.

The guy was just in a high speed chase with the cop and had crashed. The cop claims the man said he was going to have to kill him. I guess that's license to kill now? The guy took a couple steps toward the cop. You may interpret the movements differently, but I saw no threatening movement, just a shaken up idiot who just crashed his car after running from the cops probably yapping his trap at the cop he had just run from. Also, the reason he was being chased was because he was just in some sort of altercation. It was known that the man was "highly intoxicated." Apparently the cops had backed off for a while because speed was in such excess.

I'm not defending any criminal action on the part of the guy who ran. I'm pointing out the skewed perspective of what happened.

http://abc10up.com/munising-area-resident-killed-in-police-shootout/
 

marshaul

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I'd cite this as an example of better training being needed, but I'm not sure if it qualifies as murder.

A strong argument could be made that advancing on an armed person who is himself retreating constitutes demonstrated lethal intent and means (what happens when he reaches the cop? how far does the cop have to retreat to avoid the guy?).

Discuss.
 

Primus

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I'd cite this as an example of better training being needed, but I'm not sure if it qualifies as murder.

A strong argument could be made that advancing on an armed person who is himself retreating constitutes demonstrated lethal intent and means (what happens when he reaches the cop? how far does the cop have to retreat to avoid the guy?).

Discuss.

Well said. I also agree more training may have help.

As I asked.... Why was the guy walking towards the cop who had his gun drawn? To shake his hand? Does the cop put his gun away and his hands up and hope the guy doesn't kick his head in or kill him?
 

davidmcbeth

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Well said. I also agree more training may have help.

As I asked.... Why was the guy walking towards the cop who had his gun drawn? To shake his hand? Does the cop put his gun away and his hands up and hope the guy doesn't kick his head in or kill him?

We train monkeys :monkey:monkey:monkey:monkey:monkey not people
 

davidmcbeth

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I'm pretty sure if it's justified SD it's not considered murder. The all caps are meant to signify The Truth, not a prosecutor's opinion.

There is only 3 minutes because... did you even watch it? The cops had backed off and just caught up to him after he crashed.

The guy was just in a high speed chase with the cop and had crashed. The cop claims the man said he was going to have to kill him. I guess that's license to kill now? The guy took a couple steps toward the cop. You may interpret the movements differently, but I saw no threatening movement, just a shaken up idiot who just crashed his car after running from the cops probably yapping his trap at the cop he had just run from. Also, the reason he was being chased was because he was just in some sort of altercation. It was known that the man was "highly intoxicated." Apparently the cops had backed off for a while because speed was in such excess.

I'm not defending any criminal action on the part of the guy who ran. I'm pointing out the skewed perspective of what happened.

http://abc10up.com/munising-area-resident-killed-in-police-shootout/

Based on new info in the thread ... I declare IMO it was murder.
 

The Truth

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Well said. I also agree more training may have help.

As I asked.... Why was the guy walking towards the cop who had his gun drawn? To shake his hand? Does the cop put his gun away and his hands up and hope the guy doesn't kick his head in or kill him?

If I were the cop, I would not have shot the guy like that. The guy was "highly intoxicated" and the dispatchers were aware of this. I have to assume that they communicated this fact to the pursuing officers. There is also no mention of the man being armed, and he wasn't armed, nor did he pretend to have a gun, reach for a gun, or say that he had a gun. The cop claims the guy said "you're going to have to kill me." That's it. Sorry, but lethal force was not necessary in my opinion. Aren't cops trained with any type of self defense other than mag dumps?
 

notalawyer

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If you tell me you are going to kill me, while I have my gun drawn, and advance towards me, I'll likely do a mag dump into you. :eek:
 
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77zach

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It seems not. It seems as though they view every other tool in their arsenal as merely compliance-gaining devices.

Perfectly put, "compliance-gaining" devices. This is the difference between "civilian" carry and cop carry in Amerika now.

This is possibly 2nd degree murder.

Funny, we put George Zimmerman on trial for 2nd degree when it was clearly self defense, yet this cop gets off completely free for what is not so clearly self defense. Why?

Because "some animals are more equal than other animals. "
 

Jeff. State

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Why was this dude walking toward the officer? To shake his hand?

So if someone who is unarmed is walking towards me the same way the deceased "walked towards" the officer I wont be charged with killing him if I shoot him DRT?????
 

The Truth

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If you tell me you are going to kill me, while I have my gun drawn, and advance towards me, I'll likely do a mag dump into you. :eek:

Totally irrelevant. Who said anything about "I'm going to kill you!"? What is it with people and garbage strawman/red herring arguments lately? The only thing that the guy said was "...you're going to have to kill me..." according to the cop that killed him. This thread wouldn't even exist if the guy had said, "I'm going to kill you!" to the cop.

Another interesting twist is the cop had an audio recording device as well but it was mysteriously not turned on at the time of the shooting. You would think that the cop would have made up a better lie than "you're going to have to kill me" if his recorder was off.

Apparently all the cop had to do was claim the suspect said "I'm going to kill you" and he would be justified in murdering a "highly intoxicated" unarmed man according to some here.
 
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notalawyer

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Totally irrelevant. Who said anything about "I'm going to kill you!"? What is it with people and garbage strawman/red herring arguments lately? The only thing that the guy said was "...you're going to have to kill me..." according to the cop that killed him. This thread wouldn't even exist if the guy had said, "I'm going to kill you!" to the cop.

Another interesting twist is the cop had an audio recording device as well but it was mysteriously not turned on at the time of the shooting. You would think that the cop would have made up a better lie than "you're going to have to kill me" if his recorder was off.

Apparently all the cop had to do was claim the suspect said "I'm going to kill you" and he would be justified in murdering a "highly intoxicated" unarmed man according to some here.

Forgive me I misread you post.....I've corrected mine reply below.

You continue to advance towards me while I have a gun drawn on you, I'll will likely map dump into you.


Is that better?
 

The Truth

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Forgive me I misread you post.....I've corrected mine reply below.

You continue to advance towards me while I have a gun drawn on you, I'll will likely map dump into you.


Is that better?

First of all if you draw on me might oughta kill me quick, because there is no peaceful ending to that situation. I'm not talking about me and a cop, you addressed me personally so that's how I'm replying. Second of all, as long as I am not assaulting you physically or threatening you, you would be breaking the law in most places by murdering me via mag dump for walking towards you, and in some places you'd be breaking the law for brandishing too. If we are in a public area I'll walk as close or as far away from you as a feel like, and I'll walk towards you if that's what I've got to do to get where I'm going.

Also, advocating illegal acts is both illegal (duh) and against forum rules.

Hopefully you're kidding.
 

Grapeshot

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The title would seem to be inflammatory, knee jerk reaction.

Murder, possibly justified or excusable, is part of the determination in a criminal trial; whereas this is being pursued as a civil matter.
 

77zach

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Forgive me I misread you post.....I've corrected mine reply below.

You continue to advance towards me while I have a gun drawn on you, I'll will likely map dump into you.


Is that better?

Do that in Florida, and I imagine most states, you're going to prison unless you are a blessed cop. But you (I assume) know that, being a lawyer.

Now, if he came at me with a deadly weapon, and said "you're going to have to kill me", I would probably shoot, and the law would be on my side.
 
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Primus

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Actually this sounds more like suicide by cop. Statements paired with actions such as high speed chase and then advancing on cop who has gun drawn.....

So what's the complaint? He got what he wanted apparently. I mean the cop is a public servant right? So that guy is the cops boss. So he told him what he wanted. :D

Back to reality.... Context is everything. The entire set of actions not just "walking towards him" matters. Hence why I aaked where was the rest of the video and what occurred before.

Something happened. Did he murder someone? Did he jay walk? Was he being chased for a tail light out?

Like I said... Stupid sensationalism at its finest.
 

davidmcbeth

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I don't think that prior actions in this case means that much .. eluding police warrants a shooting in this case? no.

he's not in the car anymore ... so its irrelevant

having a guy walk toward you is not sufficient
 
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