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The MURDER of Timothy Mitchell

The Truth

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The title would seem to be inflammatory, knee jerk reaction.

How is it a knee jerk reaction? There's video of the shooting! Don't you think shooting this man to death was a bit of a knee jerk reaction?

Murder, possibly justified or excusable, is part of the determination in a criminal trial; whereas this is being pursued as a civil matter.

Right, this is my point exactly. The prosecutor is kept firmly secure in the hip pockets of cops like this one who use excessive or deadly force on unarmed people. The cop will never see the inside of a criminal court because his master, the prosecutor, in all his infinite wisdom, opines that the shooting was justified. Replace the cop with an ordinary citizen and there's no question of what the outcome would be. Grand juries are just as much of a joke.

I figured you'd move the thread. Too many views on the General Discussion board. Ohhh Grapeshot...
 

77zach

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Actually this sounds more like suicide by cop. Statements paired with actions such as high speed chase and then advancing on cop who has gun drawn.....

So what's the complaint? He got what he wanted apparently. I mean the cop is a public servant right? So that guy is the cops boss. So he told him what he wanted. :D

Back to reality.... Context is everything. The entire set of actions not just "walking towards him" matters. Hence why I aaked where was the rest of the video and what occurred before.

Something happened. Did he murder someone? Did he jay walk? Was he being chased for a tail light out?

Like I said... Stupid sensationalism at its finest.

Oh Primus, if only that were always true for mundane non-cops such as myself. You did read/watch the George Zimmerman trial right?
 

The Truth

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Actually this sounds more like suicide by cop. Statements paired with actions such as high speed chase and then advancing on cop who has gun drawn.....

So what's the complaint? He got what he wanted apparently. I mean the cop is a public servant right? So that guy is the cops boss. So he told him what he wanted. :D

Sadly, I know you are not kidding. I also know that this is the thought process of a lot of these guys with multiple kills under their belts. You really think you're doing the guy a favor. Hey, maybe you are - but it's not your place to do so.

Back to reality.... Context is everything. The entire set of actions not just "walking towards him" matters. Hence why I aaked where was the rest of the video and what occurred before.

Something happened. Did he murder someone? Did he jay walk? Was he being chased for a tail light out?

Already answered this and posted a link to where I got the info. Also Google is your friend.

Like I said... Stupid sensationalism at its finest.

What exactly is sensationalist about this? The fact that I used all caps in a certain word, the fact that I disagree with a prosecutor, or something else? Ad hominem is a dirty drug my friend...


I must question people's sanity when they agree that a clearly intoxicated person stumbling towards them unarmed poses an immediate threat to their lives. The guy looks like he's about to fall over the entire time. Without sound, it's hard to tell when he's actually shot!
 
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Grapeshot

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How is it a knee jerk reaction? There's video of the shooting! Don't you think shooting this man to death was a bit of a knee jerk reaction?



Right, this is my point exactly. The prosecutor is kept firmly secure in the hip pockets of cops like this one who use excessive or deadly force on unarmed people. The cop will never see the inside of a criminal court because his master, the prosecutor, in all his infinite wisdom, opines that the shooting was justified. Replace the cop with an ordinary citizen and there's no question of what the outcome would be. Grand juries are just as much of a joke.

I figured you'd move the thread. Too many views on the General Discussion board. Ohhh Grapeshot...

It is a knee jerk reaction because all of the facts are not known - remains to be seen.

The thread was moved because the General Discussion sub-forum is for things not pertaining to OC, but still in the RKBA realm.

It is acceptable in MI [SUP](1)[/SUP] because that is where it occurred and [SUP](2)[/SUP] because a individual officer's actions are under scrutiny. I blanket indictment of the system (like your 2nd paragraph) reaches too far.

I have never moved, edited, or deleted a thread because it had a high volume of views. There is a protocol established to which I adhere.
 

Plan B

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You can find videos like this every day, what's the big deal that got this one posted?
 

FreeInAZ

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Ok a couple of things to mull over- If this was a law abiding citizen simply involved in some type of traffic incident (drunks often cut people off and end up in a crash), would a citizen be charged with a crime based on what we see in the video? The officers use of deadly force is at best in this case very questionable. This is why they carry tasers, pepper spray and other less than lethal items. The officer seems very casual about shooting this guy from his body language, wonder why? Fieger a competent lawyer will most likely hammer this department & county for a large award. There is much we can't hear - once or if the audio is released we should get a better notion of what was said and the "commands" issued. Lots of things going on here - guy may have a brain/head injury, maybe drunk, etc... Those things said, when did not following a order lawful or not become a instant death sentence? I think a mere mortal citizen would be sitting in state prison right now in this case. YMMV
 

davidmcbeth

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Ok a couple of things to mull over- If this was a law abiding citizen simply involved in some type of traffic incident (drunks often cut people off and end up in a crash), would a citizen be charged with a crime based on what we see in the video? <snip>

Without a doubt he would be sitting in jail right now.
 

notalawyer

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First of all if you draw on me might oughta kill me quick, because there is no peaceful ending to that situation. I'm not talking about me and a cop, you addressed me personally so that's how I'm replying. Second of all, as long as I am not assaulting you physically or threatening you, you would be breaking the law in most places by murdering me via mag dump for walking towards you, and in some places you'd be breaking the law for brandishing too. If we are in a public area I'll walk as close or as far away from you as a feel like, and I'll walk towards you if that's what I've got to do to get where I'm going.

Also, advocating illegal acts is both illegal (duh) and against forum rules.

Hopefully you're kidding.

Really?

The use of 'you' is perfectly acceptable in an informal situation such as this. Although there are more grammatically correct forms, Like using 'one'. But of course, any reasonable person would understand that, especially in an online forum.

Also, a reasonable person would conclude, based on my remarks, that I (one) would have already had a lawful reason to have a firearm pointed in your (another's) general direction. With that threshold already surmounted, if the soon-to-be room temperature individual continued to advance, I (one) could easily articulate a reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm.


Also, advocating illegal acts is both illegal (duh) and against forum rules.
Failure to use common sense and reading comprehension skills should also be a criminal act. :uhoh:
 

The Truth

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Really?

The use of 'you' is perfectly acceptable in an informal situation such as this. Although there are more grammatically correct forms, Like using 'one'. But of course, any reasonable person would understand that, especially in an online forum.

Also, a reasonable person would conclude, based on my remarks, that I (one) would have already had a lawful reason to have a firearm pointed in your (another's) general direction. With that threshold already surmounted, if the soon-to-be room temperature individual continued to advance, I (one) could easily articulate a reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm.


Failure to use common sense and reading comprehension skills should also be a criminal act. :uhoh:

Yeah - I don't play word games, sorry.
 

Primus

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No, it isn't. Statements that use absolutes like "every" or "never" are seldom true. Maybe in your state that is true, but I have doubts about that, as well. I know that in my home state all homicides are not murder. Some homicides are accidents, some are manslaughter. Murder requires malice aforethought. A homicide committed by an insane person is not murder. An insane person can not form the intent to commit murder.
I was using homicide and murder as the same. I apologize if that came out wrong and I appreciate the correction. You explained my intent better I.
 

The Truth

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The defendant got what he asked for...."DEAD" What is to question about that?

I wish my mind worked in such an obtuse fashion, but it doesn't. Sorry, I value the right to live.

As it's been said before, replace the cop with a citizen and this is textbook "trigger happy," and what not to do. But it was LE, and the suspect wanted to die, so all is well with the world, eh?

If cops would replace their aggressive shooting in these cases (unarmed suspect) with aggressive physicality the world would be a better place. Spear the guy, rack his arms behind his back, hell dislocate his shoulders who cares, even taze the $h!t outta the guy. I'm just sick of seeing a guy take a couple steps "toward" a cop, or "not submit fast enough," and get shot to death unnecessarily. Inept cops and a lack of training IMO, combined with some passive aggressive "license to kill" attitudes. It is my belief that cops like this hope and pray that one day they can "bag them a bad guy."

Reminds me of Jimbo and Ned on South Park. "QUICK, SHOOT EM THEY'RE COMIN' RIGHT FOR US!"
 
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WalkingWolf

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I'd cite this as an example of better training being needed, but I'm not sure if it qualifies as murder.

A strong argument could be made that advancing on an armed person who is himself retreating constitutes demonstrated lethal intent and means (what happens when he reaches the cop? how far does the cop have to retreat to avoid the guy?).

Discuss.

Agree, if the cop is telling the truth this is a justified shooting. Chase or no chase I would shoot in that situation, especially now that I am older and weaker.
 

The Truth

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If the cop had taken cover by his cruiser to wait on backup instead of running up to the guy - and the guy advanced to within 20 feet or so of the cop's cruiser, I'd agree good shoot.

Just like in my own life, if someone attacks me and I feel my life was in danger I'll shoot until the threat is stopped. There is a reason I carry. But I'm not going to shoot and kill some crazy a$$hole who approaches me reeking of beer, stumbling, telling me to kill them. I'm gonna high tail it outta there if AT ALL POSSIBLE. I do not look forward to the day that I have to shoot, and I hope it never happens.....and I'm surely not going to dump a whole mag on em. Reloading takes time that is precious in a confrontation, which is why I spend about 5 hours a month or so extensively practicing doubletap body shots immediately followed by a single headshot. BANGBANG..BANG, repeat.

I'll post pics of my target next time. I'm comfortable enough in my shooting ability that anymore than 6 shots would be just putting more holes in a dead body on its way down to the ground. Last time I was at the range I practiced with half full mags/full mags. One target I took 41 shots, all of them double taps except one (it was towards the end of my session and I had an odd number of bullets left), all of them at about 35 feet, all in very rapid succession with about 1 second in between double taps. If it were a human target, all headshots, I would have been 41 for 41. All 41 bullets were inside of about an 8 inch group, and that's being liberal with measurements. Only about 6 (maybe 7) of the bullets were outside of about a 5 inch group.
 

Primus

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If the cop had taken cover by his cruiser to wait on backup instead of running up to the guy - and the guy advanced to within 20 feet or so of the cop's cruiser, I'd agree good shoot.

Just like in my own life, if someone attacks me and I feel my life was in danger I'll shoot until the threat is stopped. There is a reason I carry. But I'm not going to shoot and kill some crazy a$$hole who approaches me reeking of beer, stumbling, telling me to kill them. I'm gonna high tail it outta there if AT ALL POSSIBLE. I do not look forward to the day that I have to shoot, and I hope it never happens.....and I'm surely not going to dump a whole mag on em. Reloading takes time that is precious in a confrontation, which is why I spend about 5 hours a month or so extensively practicing doubletap body shots immediately followed by a single headshot. BANGBANG..BANG, repeat.

I'll post pics of my target next time. I'm comfortable enough in my shooting ability that anymore than 6 shots would be just putting more holes in a dead body on its way down to the ground. Last time I was at the range I practiced with half full mags/full mags. One target I took 41 shots, all of them double taps except one (it was towards the end of my session and I had an odd number of bullets left), all of them at about 35 feet, all in very rapid succession with about 1 second in between double taps. If it were a human target, all headshots, I would have been 41 for 41. All 41 bullets were inside of about an 8 inch group, and that's being liberal with measurements. Only about 6 (maybe 7) of the bullets were outside of about a 5 inch group.

Wow your a hero we should all strive to be like....

First you start with the "well he should've done this or ran that way or his here or I would've ninja kicked him in the left knee cap or he shouldve poked him in the right eye.....".

Second, are we supposed to he impressed you can shoot a stationary target at 12 yards? Awesome double taps bro.

Hopefully someday your NOT in a situation such as this. You'll either get killed trying to "spear him" or you'll find out quick that shooting double taps mad quick like at a piece of paper is NOT remotely like real life.
 

lockman

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Your links broken.

And why only 3 minutes of video? What happened prior to the shooting? Why was this dude walking toward the officer? To shake his hand?

Why were the cops chasing him?

PS. Every time someone is killed by another its MURDER. Difference is whether or not its "justified" as in say self defence. So why your title is meant be sensational. Its really just stupid.

Many use 'murder' and 'homicide' interchangeably. homicide is an act of taking a human life by the hands or actions of another. It can be lawful, unlawful, justified or not.
 

Plan B

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First of all if you draw on me might oughta kill me quick, because there is no peaceful ending to that situation. I'm not talking about me and a cop, you addressed me personally so that's how I'm replying. Second of all, as long as I am not assaulting you physically or threatening you, you would be breaking the law in most places by murdering me via mag dump for walking towards you, and in some places you'd be breaking the law for brandishing too. If we are in a public area I'll walk as close or as far away from you as a feel like, and I'll walk towards you if that's what I've got to do to get where I'm going.

Also, advocating illegal acts is both illegal (duh) and against forum rules.

Hopefully you're kidding.

Do a mag dump on someone, and your claim to self defense goes right out the window. The force applied to the situation must be appropriate to the situation at hand. A charging pitbull maybe, but unless the guy is running right at you, then a mag dump is extreme. You are only going to get mag bans through mag dumps. And possibly hit someone with a stray.

Failure to use common sense and reading comprehension skills should also be a criminal act. :uhoh:


Great, just what we need, to be paying for more people to be sitting in jail for yet some more victimless "crimes".

common sense...hellloooo
 
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