The MURDER of Timothy Mitchell

Primus said:

Wow your a hero we should all strive to be like....

First you start with the "well he should've done this or ran that way or his here or I would've ninja kicked him in the left knee cap or he shouldve poked him in the right eye.....".

Second, are we supposed to he impressed you can shoot a stationary target at 12 yards? Awesome double taps bro.

Hopefully someday your NOT in a situation such as this. You'll either get killed trying to "spear him" or you'll find out quick that shooting double taps mad quick like at a piece of paper is NOT remotely like real life.

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Think about why a LEO has a squad car. He's reasonably safe inside it. Think about this situation. Was there any reason, any reason whatsoever to exit his car and draw his sidearm? I'd say no. He should have called for backup and a wrecker and just stayed where he was. Yes, the man was eluding, yes, he would eventually needed to be arrested, but where is he going to go on foot? You just let him roam around and when he gets tired and backup is there, you scoop him up.

To me, it's bravado, lack of patience and over-entitlement ("let's shoot us someone because we have guns and we gotta use the bullets before they go bad, m'kay?")

Had he done the above it would have never been an issue. Instead, he forced the issue and put his career in jeopardy. Why?

Maverick9 said:

Think about why a LEO has a squad car. He's reasonably safe inside it. Think about this situation. Was there any reason, any reason whatsoever to exit his car and draw his sidearm? I'd say no. He should have called for backup and a wrecker and just stayed where he was. Yes, the man was eluding, yes, he would eventually needed to be arrested, but where is he going to go on foot? You just let him roam around and when he gets tired and backup is there, you scoop him up.

To me, it's bravado, lack of patience and over-entitlement ("let's shoot us someone because we have guns and we gotta use the bullets before they go bad, m'kay?")

Had he done the above it would have never been an issue. Instead, he forced the issue and put his career in jeopardy. Why?

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Reasonably safe in a car? What? What kind of car do you drive? A car is the LAST place you want to be when being attacked by a person with unknown weapons.

Bullets? Right through the car like butter.

Knives? Too easy. Smash a window and start stabbing at your target.

Hands? Also smash window and start smashing face.

Now cop has to defend against any and all attacks while seated in a car. Ever try drawing from a level 3 or 4 holster while seated and leaning on that side? Try it and get back to me....

Listen I get it, it sucks seeing an "unarmed" guy get shot. I AGREE the cop could've/should've tried some less lethal first. But, I don't know what he had on him. Does he have taser? Also like I said before, what was this guys history? Why were they chasing him? Thy had to call off he chase because of speed? Does that mean he was posing a danger before he crashed? (Driving erratic intentionally)

Lastly, cops don't just sit in a cruiser and hide because a guy is scary because they are paid to get guys like this. IF he had sat in his cruiser and the got away you would he sitting here calling him a coward. Instead he gets out and confronts like he's supposed to and now he's a "murderer". He didn't tell the dude to come towards him (like the not so bright guy with dog). He didn't tell the guy to lead them on a chase. I doubt he told him to do the initial crime that started the whole thing.

This is another case of a short video DESIGNED to be sensational and get everyone fired up. Along with words like "murder". Why was only that last portion posted? Why none of the chase itself? Why none of the prior incident that caused the problem?

I don't think there is anything different the cop could have done. He saw a car he had been chasing in the ditch, attempted to make an arrest, and the guy came towards him. He even backed up towards the car, but had no time to get in the car retreat, which is not his job. And in a castle state a person does not even have to be a police officer to use force in this situation.

I dislike police misconduct just as much as most people do, but I am brutally honest, use common sense and logic. From the video this case is clearly justified.

This is a tough one. If the chase had to be temporarily abandoned I would guess his vehicle was in real danger of hurting someone. That being the case it's hard to fault the cop for having his gun drawn upon confronting the driver. The problem is at that point his only response to non-compliance is going to be killing. I certainly don't believe he had to kill the man. The man never attempted to hurt the cop that I can tell. But as a fleeing suspect it's pretty much been established once the cops catch up to you they are going to kill you if you give them the slightest chance. Once he decided not to comply with the cop's assumed commands to get on the ground he being a fleeing suspect was worm food.

Primus, you can take personal digs and mock my training all you want. That doesn't change the fact that my tactics will make me and do make me a more responsible shooter, probably more responsible than you based on your condescention.

The Truth said:

Primus, you can take personal digs and mock my training all you want. That doesn't change the fact that my tactics will make me and do make me a more responsible shooter, probably more responsible than you based on your condescention.

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Well when you throw your ninja skills out there as if your a delta operator who's going to save lives based on "double taps" you kind of open yourself up for it.

Condescension isn't a very good basis for assigning "responsible shooter" to someone. I've been doing "double taps" probably before you ever carried a handgun. As have many other guys on this forum. Difference is I don't pretend me hitting 41 holes in a stationary paper makes me operator status. Especially not compared to people in real life scenarios.

I have no qualms with your training ( I actually applaud and think more should do the same". My issue is with the usual internet bravado and criticizing of others that are in situations you've never been in nor ever will be in.

I wasn't trying to brag at all, I was merely pointing out how even some really simple training could help save lives. The more cool, confident , and well trained the cop, the less likely he or she is to make a bad decision.

IMO this was suicide by cop. Advancing on an officer who has his weapon drawn is asking to get shot.

budlight said:

IMO this was suicide by cop. Advancing on an officer who has his weapon drawn is asking to get shot.

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What if the person had been a 15 year old girl? Is she asking to get shot? Is it responsible for the officer to shoot an unarmed teenager? Yet even a teenager can stick their finger in your eye. Just how much more dangerous is a drunken driver staggering around, unable to walk a straight line?

It shows how far we've gone off the notion of protect and serve when a cop acts like a scaredy-cat, getting out of his car and running up to an unarmed drunk with handgun out in a frightened posture, no option chosen other than shoot to kill.

What happened to the brave, skilled officer who does not want to ever have to resort to drawing his firearm, let alone shoot some unarmed person to death? Here he doesn't even give repeated warnings, he just shoots in less than half a dozen seconds after the confrontation began.

10 years ago that would have not been acceptable in any way. Now, we argue about its validity.

Maverick9 said:

What if the person had been a 15 year old girl? Is she asking to get shot? Is it responsible for the officer to shoot an unarmed teenager? Yet even a teenager can stick their finger in your eye. Just how much more dangerous is a drunken driver staggering around, unable to walk a straight line?

It shows how far we've gone off the notion of protect and serve when a cop acts like a scaredy-cat, getting out of his car and running up to an unarmed drunk with handgun out in a frightened posture, no option chosen other than shoot to kill.

What happened to the brave, skilled officer who does not want to ever have to resort to drawing his firearm, let alone shoot some unarmed person to death? Here he doesn't even give repeated warnings, he just shoots in less than half a dozen seconds after the confrontation began.

10 years ago that would have not been acceptable in any way. Now, we argue about its validity.

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Sure... Let's what if.

What if the guy judo chopped the and took his gun then killed 48 little kids?

What if the "scardy cat" cop sat in the cruiser then the guy smashes the window kills cop takes car runs into a bus full of nuns?

What if he waited for back up and the guy ran away to his girlfriends house and killed her and their 15 kids?

What if.....

You get the point.

The cop protected and served everyone else in the community. Don't want to get shot? Don't do the 86 (exaggeration) things this dude did. To include ADVANCING on an armed individual.

What's sad is you sound like the trayvon crew or even better the Ferguson crew... "Oh was turning his life around... Oh he was a sweet heart never hurt anyone (other then a shop owner) oh he was just drunk wasn't his fault....."

What If this was a medial emergency instead? People with hypoglycemia say and do strange things, should he have just killed the person who skipped breakfast? The officer closed the space here initially not the citizen. Had he not done so, things may have ended better. But then bubba wouldn't have the cool "cop Pop" notch on his pistol handle, now would he?

Pretty soon we'll be fretting over pop pop pop pop then stop or I'll shoot commands.

That seems to be where this trend is going?

Primus said:

Sure... Let's what if.

What if the guy judo chopped the and took his gun then killed 48 little kids?

What if the "scardy cat" cop sat in the cruiser then the guy smashes the window kills cop takes car runs into a bus full of nuns?

What if he waited for back up and the guy ran away to his girlfriends house and killed her and their 15 kids?

What if.....

You get the point.

The cop protected and served everyone else in the community. Don't want to get shot? Don't do the 86 (exaggeration) things this dude did. To include ADVANCING on an armed individual.

What's sad is you sound like the trayvon crew or even better the Ferguson crew... "Oh was turning his life around... Oh he was a sweet heart never hurt anyone (other then a shop owner) oh he was just drunk wasn't his fault....."

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Whether a person is turning their life around does not mean squat. I am surprised that a claimed police officer would not understand that force is either justified or not justified. This case IMO is clearly justified, because of evidence provided in the video. TM was justified because the young man was beating another man to death, MB IMO was not justified, nothing justifies killing a man with his hands raised.

The problem I have is people who are so ignorant they cannot use common sense to see past their bias. A police officer who does not understand the use of force, and actually thinks some people deserve to die based on their personality do not belong behind a badge, or a gun.

WalkingWolf said:

Whether a person is turning their life around does not mean squat. I am surprised that a claimed police officer would not understand that force is either justified or not justified. This case IMO is clearly justified, because of evidence provided in the video. TM was justified because the young man was beating another man to death, MB IMO was not justified, nothing justifies killing a man with his hands raised.

The problem I have is people who are so ignorant they cannot use common sense to see past their bias. A police officer who does not understand the use of force, and actually thinks some people deserve to die based on their personality do not belong behind a badge, or a gun.

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Shhhh.... The adults are speaking....

FreeInAZ said:

What If this was a medial emergency instead? People with hypoglycemia say and do strange things, should he have just killed the person who skipped breakfast? The officer closed the space here initially not the citizen. Had he not done so, things may have ended better. But then bubba wouldn't have the cool "cop Pop" notch on his pistol handle, now would he?

Pretty soon we'll be fretting over pop pop pop pop then stop or I'll shoot commands.

That seems to be where this trend is going?

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Again... What if....

What if aliens made him do it?

I guess we can wait till the autopsy comes out to confirm he was just stupid and drunk. Not a diabetic.

Primus said:

Shhhh.... The adults are speaking....

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Yes I know, you should be seen and not heard...

WalkingWolf said:

Yes I know, you should be seen and not heard...

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Now now...let's not feed the TROLL, please.

Like button???

Maverick9 said:

What if the person had been a 15 year old girl? Is she asking to get shot? Is it responsible for the officer to shoot an unarmed teenager? Yet even a teenager can stick their finger in your eye. Just how much more dangerous is a drunken driver staggering around, unable to walk a straight line?

It shows how far we've gone off the notion of protect and serve when a cop acts like a scaredy-cat, getting out of his car and running up to an unarmed drunk with handgun out in a frightened posture, no option chosen other than shoot to kill.

What happened to the brave, skilled officer who does not want to ever have to resort to drawing his firearm, let alone shoot some unarmed person to death? Here he doesn't even give repeated warnings, he just shoots in less than half a dozen seconds after the confrontation began.

10 years ago that would have not been acceptable in any way. Now, we argue about its validity.

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In Germany, everything is of a much higher quality, even the popo's.

Primus, you have the words in your avatar a bit scrambled up.

Primus said:

Sure... Let's what if.

What if the guy judo chopped the and took his gun then killed 48 little kids?

What if the "scardy cat" cop sat in the cruiser then the guy smashes the window kills cop takes car runs into a bus full of nuns?

What if he waited for back up and the guy ran away to his girlfriends house and killed her and their 15 kids?

What if.....

You get the point.

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What if we had cops who were trained to man up instead of getting terrified and shooting at every possible threat? ffs

marshaul said:

What if we had cops who were trained to man up instead of getting terrified and shooting at every possible threat? ffs

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What if people just stopped getting s**** faced and leading guys on car chases? What if guys did what they were told? What if people just behaved in general?