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Thread: Constitutional Carry in Virginia is not just a fantasy...more on 18.2-308

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Constitutional Carry in Virginia is not just a fantasy...more on 18.2-308

    Article I of the Virginia Constitution

    Section 13. Militia; standing armies; military subordinate to civil power.

    That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state, therefore, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.


    Nowhere in this section of Virginia's Constitution, which defines the right to keep and bear arms, does it enumerate the right for any branch of government in Virginia to restrict the right to bear arms in any way.




    Take for instance Article III Section 12 of the Constitution of Mississippi:

    The right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but the Legislature may regulate or forbid carrying concealed weapons.


    There would need to be a Constitutional Amendment in Mississippi for them to gain Constitutional Carry rights.

    It is my opinion that the right to Constitutional Carry already exists in Virginia, and any law infringing on the RKBA is thus un-Constitutional.

    18.2-308 has been a subject of some controversy lately when (B) Section (6) and related hunting regulations were brought up at the latest VADGIF Board meeting as being un-Constitutional in Virginia.

    How hard could it really be to make a serious push for Constitutional Carry in the Commonwealth? Why is it "too much to bite off and chew at once," when the argument for it is so simple, and already exists?

    My ears are open...
    Last edited by The Truth; 10-17-2014 at 12:54 AM. Reason: fonts
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    I would prefer the wording to be:

    Look *******, everyone can carry however, wherever, and whenever they freaking choose. Got a problem with that? Then go Pock yourself.

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    18.2-308 has got to go

    For those who aren't aware of the law in question...

    18.2-308. Carrying concealed weapons; exceptions; penalty.

    A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. A second violation of this section or a conviction under this section subsequent to any conviction under any substantially similar ordinance of any county, city, or town shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony, and a third or subsequent such violation shall be punishable as a Class 5 felony. For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature. It shall be an affirmative defense to a violation of clause (i) regarding a handgun, that a person had been issued, at the time of the offense, a valid concealed handgun permit.

    B. This section shall not apply to any person while in his own place of abode or the curtilage thereof.

    C. Except as provided in subsection A of 18.2-308.012, this section shall not apply to:

    1. Any person while in his own place of business;

    2. Any law-enforcement officer, wherever such law-enforcement officer may travel in the Commonwealth;

    3. Any person who is at, or going to or from, an established shooting range, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

    4. Any regularly enrolled member of a weapons collecting organization who is at, or going to or from, a bona fide weapons exhibition, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

    5. Any person carrying such weapons between his place of abode and a place of purchase or repair, provided the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

    6. Any person actually engaged in lawful hunting, as authorized by the Board of Game and Inland Fisheries, under inclement weather conditions necessitating temporary protection of his firearm from those conditions, provided that possession of a handgun while engaged in lawful hunting shall not be construed as hunting with a handgun if the person hunting is carrying a valid concealed handgun permit;

    7. Any State Police officer retired from the Department of State Police, any officer retired from the Division of Capitol Police, any local law-enforcement officer, auxiliary police officer or animal control officer retired from a police department or sheriff's office within the Commonwealth, any special agent retired from the State Corporation Commission or the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board, any conservation police officer retired from the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries, any Virginia Marine Police officer retired from the Law Enforcement Division of the Virginia Marine Resources Commission, any campus police officer appointed under Chapter 17 ( 23-232 et seq.) of Title 23 retired from a campus police department, any retired member of the enforcement division of the Department of Motor Vehicles appointed pursuant to 46.2-217, and any retired investigator of the security division of the Virginia Lottery, other than an officer or agent terminated for cause, (i) with a service-related disability; (ii) following at least 15 years of service with any such law-enforcement agency, board or any combination thereof; (iii) who has reached 55 years of age; or (iv) who is on long-term leave from such law-enforcement agency or board due to a service-related injury, provided such officer carries with him written proof of consultation with and favorable review of the need to carry a concealed handgun issued by the chief law-enforcement officer of the last such agency from which the officer retired or the agency that employs the officer or, in the case of special agents, issued by the State Corporation Commission or the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board. A copy of the proof of consultation and favorable review shall be forwarded by the chief or the Board to the Department of State Police for entry into the Virginia Criminal Information Network. The chief law-enforcement officer shall not without cause withhold such written proof if the retired law-enforcement officer otherwise meets the requirements of this section. An officer set forth in clause (iv) who receives written proof of consultation to carry a concealed handgun shall surrender such proof of consultation upon return to work or upon termination of employment with the law-enforcement agency. Notice of the surrender shall be forwarded to the Department of State Police for entry into the Virginia Criminal Information Network. However, if such officer retires on disability because of the service-related injury, and would be eligible under clause (i) for written proof of consultation to carry a concealed handgun, he may retain the previously issued written proof of consultation. A retired law-enforcement officer who receives proof of consultation and favorable review pursuant to this subdivision is authorized to carry a concealed handgun in the same manner as a law-enforcement officer authorized to carry a concealed handgun pursuant to subdivision 2;

    7a. Any person who is eligible for retirement with at least 20 years of service with a law-enforcement agency or board mentioned in subdivision 7 who has resigned in good standing from such law-enforcement agency or board to accept a position covered by a retirement system that is authorized under Title 51.1, provided such person carries with him written proof of consultation with and favorable review of the need to carry a concealed handgun issued by the chief law-enforcement officer of the agency from which he resigned or, in the case of special agents, issued by the State Corporation Commission or the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board. A copy of the proof of consultation and favorable review shall be forwarded by the chief, Board or Commission to the Department of State Police for entry into the Virginia Criminal Information Network. The chief law-enforcement officer shall not without cause withhold such written proof if the law-enforcement officer otherwise meets the requirements of this section.

    For purposes of applying the reciprocity provisions of 18.2-308.014, any person granted the privilege to carry a concealed handgun pursuant to subdivision 7 or this subdivision, while carrying the proof of consultation and favorable review required, shall be deemed to have been issued a concealed handgun permit.

    For purposes of complying with the federal Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004, a retired or resigned law-enforcement officer who receives proof of consultation and review pursuant to subdivision 7 or this subdivision shall have the opportunity to annually participate, at the retired or resigned law-enforcement officer's expense, in the same training and testing to carry firearms as is required of active law-enforcement officers in the Commonwealth. If such retired or resigned law-enforcement officer meets the training and qualification standards, the chief law-enforcement officer shall issue the retired or resigned officer certification, valid one year from the date of issuance, indicating that the retired or resigned officer has met the standards of the agency to carry a firearm;

    8. Any State Police officer who is a member of the organized reserve forces of any of the armed services of the United States, national guard, or naval militia, while such officer is called to active military duty, provided such officer carries with him written proof of consultation with and favorable review of the need to carry a concealed handgun issued by the Superintendent of State Police. The proof of consultation and favorable review shall be valid as long as the officer is on active military duty and shall expire when the officer returns to active law-enforcement duty. The issuance of the proof of consultation and favorable review shall be entered into the Virginia Criminal Information Network. The Superintendent of State Police shall not without cause withhold such written proof if the officer is in good standing and is qualified to carry a weapon while on active law-enforcement duty.

    For purposes of applying the reciprocity provisions of 18.2-308.014, any person granted the privilege to carry a concealed handgun pursuant to this subdivision, while carrying the proof of consultation and favorable review required, shall be deemed to have been issued a concealed handgun permit;

    9. Any attorney for the Commonwealth or assistant attorney for the Commonwealth, wherever such attorney may travel in the Commonwealth;

    10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel; and

    11. Any enrolled participant of a firearms training course who is at, or going to or from, a training location, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported.

    D. This section shall also not apply to any of the following individuals while in the discharge of their official duties, or while in transit to or from such duties:

    1. Carriers of the United States mail;

    2. Officers or guards of any state correctional institution;

    3. Conservators of the peace, except that an attorney for the Commonwealth or assistant attorney for the Commonwealth may carry a concealed handgun pursuant to subdivision C 9. However, the following conservators of the peace shall not be permitted to carry a concealed handgun without obtaining a permit as provided in this article: (i) notaries public; (ii) registrars; (iii) drivers, operators or other persons in charge of any motor vehicle carrier of passengers for hire; or (iv) commissioners in chancery;

    4. Noncustodial employees of the Department of Corrections designated to carry weapons by the Director of the Department of Corrections pursuant to 53.1-29; and

    5. Harbormaster of the City of Hopewell.

    (Code 1950, 18.1-269; 1960, c. 358; 1964, c. 130; 1975, cc. 14, 15, 594; 1976, c. 302; 1978, c. 715; 1979, c. 642; 1980, c. 238; 1981, c. 376; 1982, cc. 71, 553; 1983, c. 529; 1984, cc. 360, 720; 1985, c. 427; 1986, cc. 57, 451, 625, 641; 1987, cc. 592, 707; 1988, cc. 359, 793; 1989, cc. 538, 542; 1990, cc. 640, 648, 825; 1991, c. 637; 1992, cc. 510, 705; 1993, cc. 748, 861; 1994, cc. 375, 697; 1995, c. 829; 1997, cc. 916, 921, 922; 1998, cc. 662, 670, 846, 847; 1999, cc. 628, 666, 679; 2001, cc. 25, 384, 657; 2002, cc. 699, 728, 826; 2004, cc. 355, 423, 462, 876, 885, 900, 901, 903, 905, 926, 995, 1012; 2005, cc. 344, 420, 424, 441, 839; 2006, c. 886; 2007, cc. 87, 272, 408, 455; 2008, cc. 69, 75, 80, 309, 464, 742; 2009, cc. 235, 779, 780; 2010, cc. 387, 433, 576, 586, 602, 677, 700, 709, 740, 741, 754, 841, 863; 2011, cc. 231, 234, 384, 410; 2012, cc. 132, 175, 291, 557, 776; 2013, cc. 559, 746; 2014, cc. 45, 225, 450.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    It shall be an affirmative defense to a violation of clause (i) regarding a handgun, that a person had been issued, at the time of the offense, a valid concealed handgun permit.
    Also, doesn't this mean you are not exempt from being arrested for CC, but if you have a CHP that is your affirmative defense against the charge in the court of law?

    Exceptions are listed in 18.2-308(C) and I see nothing about a CHP.
    Last edited by The Truth; 10-17-2014 at 01:28 AM. Reason: clause
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quite correct - CC is illegal. A CHP is just your "get out of jail" card - but it can require that you first do directly to jail. And wait there.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    I cross referenced the list of DGIF Board Members with the members of the House Committees, and guess whose name I found?

    http://hodcap.state.va.us/publicatio...hart2014-5.pdf

    SPRUILL. Is this the same Clayton L. Spruill?

    If so, he is on the House Delegates Committee for Commerce and Labor, and also the Committee for Cities and Towns.

    His committees may not be relevant necessarily, but the fact that there is an open public forum in which he can be addressed with relevance to DGIF is a pretty big deal to me. I'm going to keep digging.
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    So far I have narrowed down the most important members of DGIF for the cause.

    Clayton L Spruill - House Delegates Committee on Commerce and Labor, House Delegates Committee on Cities and Towns

    Charles H Cunningham - DGIF Vice-Chair, Political Director of State and Local Affairs for the NRA. He's worked for NRA since 1984.

    Bill Bolling - 10 years in the Virginia Senate, Lieutenant Governor of Virginia 2006-2014




    There is no information on Robert "Bob" W. Duncan, Although I believe he is of some rank on the Board. He did the most talking at the Board meeting.

    There is no information on Matt Hull either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Regular Member Baked on Grease's Avatar
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    While I agree that concealing IS a Right, the courts disagree. They said that concealing is such an evil and dangerous thing to society that it must not have ever been a Right and therefore the States are allwed to restrict it...
    "A Right Un-exercised is a Right Lost"

    "According to the law, [openly carrying] in a vehicle is against the law if the weapon is concealed" -Flamethrower (think about it....)

    Carrying an XDm 9mm with Hornady Critical Defense hollowpoint. Soon to be carrying a Ruger along with it....

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baked on Grease View Post
    While I agree that concealing IS a Right, the courts disagree. They said that concealing is such an evil and dangerous thing to society that it must not have ever been a Right and therefore the States are allwed to restrict it...
    Isn't it odd then, that OCers have less freedom than CCers in some circumstances?

    "sure, you can carry there, just register with us and pay a fee and you've bought your freedom!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    Isn't it odd then, that OCers have less freedom than CCers in some circumstances?

    "sure, you can carry there, just register with us and pay a fee and you've bought your freedom!"
    I'd rather spend my money on bullets thanks !

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    Isn't it odd then, that OCers have less freedom than CCers in some circumstances?

    "sure, you can carry there, just register with us and pay a fee and you've bought your freedom!"
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I'd rather spend my money on bullets thanks !
    Meanwhile and after, I first highly recommend following Virginia law when in Virginia. Don't believe there was ever a response to Skidmark's generous invitation to come visit here.
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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    DAVIDE, i would have to agree with you. we already have constitutional carry in VA, it is called OPEN CARRY

    B.O.G. technically you are right carrying a gun is a right. but i consider hiding it just plan rude
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    VA calls it a "Concealed Handgun Permit," I call it a "Fashion Permit" as it allows more fashion leeway. Have to pay them my hard earned money for the privilege of draping fabric over my otherwise legal firearm. Also very discriminatory against women with their unique fashion choices.
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    Isn't it odd then, that OCers have less freedom than CCers in some circumstances?

    "sure, you can carry there, just register with us and pay a fee and you've bought your freedom!"
    Nah. CCers have to carry ID, and they can't drink alcohol.

    Sounds lame to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    DAVIDE, i would have to agree with you. we already have constitutional carry in VA, it is called OPEN CARRY

    B.O.G. technically you are right carrying a gun is a right. but i consider hiding it just plan rude
    we have a gentleman in our midst !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baked on Grease View Post
    While I agree that concealing IS a Right, the courts disagree. They said that concealing is such an evil and dangerous thing to society that it must not have ever been a Right and therefore the States are allwed to restrict it...
    Courts cannot vote on a right anymore than a legislative member can,,,if they do, that vote is null and void.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    For those who aren't aware of the law in question...

    18.2-308. Carrying concealed weapons; exceptions; penalty.
    [...]
    D. This section shall also not apply to any of the following individuals while in the discharge of their official duties, or while in transit to or from such duties:
    [...]
    5. Harbormaster of the City of Hopewell.
    We don't need constitutional carry. If you want to carry concealed without a permit, become Harbormaster of the City of Hopewell. Now you have something to aspire to...

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