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Thread: Wrong way democracy. B. Fein, TWT

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    Wrong way democracy. B. Fein, TWT

    In 1929, the Rose Bowl pitted the University of California against Georgia Tech. Calís star center and linebacker, Roy Riegels, recovered a Georgia Tech fumble but unwittingly galloped 60 yards in the wrong direction toward his own goal line. The blunder set the stage for an 8-7 Cal defeat.

    Americaís foreign policy is similarly earmarked by wrong-way runs in promoting democracy.
    • In 1953, we orchestrated the overthrow of Iranís democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammed Mossedeq
    • In 1954, we engineered the toppling of Guatemalaís democratically elected Jacabo Arbenz
    • In 1963, we were complicit in a military coup in South Vietnam and the murder of President Ngo Dinh Diem.
    • In 1965, we intervened militarily in the Dominican Republic to thwart the political return of Juan Bosch,
    • In 1970, we immediately recognized and supported Cambodiaís Lol Nol after his military coup against Prince Norodom Sihanouk.
    • In 1973, we collaborated in the overthrow of Chilean President Salvador Allende


    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...way-democracy/

    Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. George Santayana, The Life of Reason (1905-1906), Reason in Common Sense http://www.gutenberg.org/author/George+Santayana)
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    Putting in the Shaw (sp?) was a good move..he was very pro-america, till he got booted in '79.

    But is a crap shoot that usually ends up bad; and we have no business messing with internal gov'ts of other nations.

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    agreed, but..............

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Putting in the Shaw (sp?) was a good move..he was very pro-america, till he got booted in '79.

    But is a crap shoot that usually ends up bad; and we have no business messing with internal gov'ts of other nations.
    Those in power need to play with their power. Personally, I think we should defend our own borders and to hell with the rest of the world. Forget about expanding Democracy. For whatever reason, all of our efforts repeatedly go so very wrong and we end up with a huge mess to deal with afterwards.

    Vietnam...Kennedy said we have to go there to stop the spread of communism. Johnson expanded the military numbers in the field of war. We ended up abandoning the country and guess what, it was taken over by Communism anyhow. All those people died, both American and Vietnamese, for no damn reason. Ridiculous example of America believing we had to make the rest of the world like us. I do believe we have to be strong to defend ourselves and our way of life, but we need to keep it here and not worry about making it the world standard.

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    Could it be that democracy as commonly perceived is at root? There is vast historical comment of our Founding Father's distrust of common democracy. Indeed, democracy (δημοκρατία) as practiced by the Ancient Greeks through sortition in no way resembles our universal enfranchisement.

    Here, from Aristotle,
    "Democracy arose from the idea that those who are equal in any respect are equal absolutely. All are alike free, therefore they claim that all are free absolutely... The next is when the democrats, on the grounds that they are all equal, claim equal participation in everything. ... It is accepted as democratic when public offices are allocated by lot; and as oligarchic when they are filled by election. (Aristotle, 'Politics' http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/6762)
    Last edited by Nightmare; 10-21-2014 at 04:34 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Could it be that democracy as commonly perceived is at root? There is vast historical comment of our Founding Father's distrust of common democracy. Indeed, democracy (δημοκρατία) as practiced by the Ancient Greeks through sortition in no way resembles our universal enfranchisement.

    Here, from Aristotle,
    Indeed. Our Founding Fathers' distrust of democracy is why we have a republic, not a democracy: "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government..." - Article IV, Section 4, U.S. Constitution. Each and every State Constitution mirrors the term, "Republican."

    It's the Dems who keep wrongly teaching our kids we live in a "democracy." Put simply, they lie.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Or teaching de facto rather than normatively or prescriptively de jure, teaching is rather than ought.
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    Nothing wrong with voting by lot until you are not apart of the lot that voted not your way. Kind smells the same with our republican form of government(s)...for those who actually participate that is.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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