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Thread: KC MO PD Sunshine Request Answer

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    KC MO PD Sunshine Request Answer

    I received the info I request on open Carry in KC MO see attached PDF for info I received.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    What a jumbled up mess of documents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    what a jumbled up mess of documents.
    qft.
    "Somebody ever tries to kill you, you try and kill em right back!" - Captain Malcolm Reynolds

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Excellent work, Renegadez!

    I hope to comment more after the St. Louis walk on the 25th.

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    So I guess KCMO is not going to enforce OC regulations? Or are they going to use the new law to have a reason to approach an OCer and demand papers?
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
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    It's wonderfully unclear!

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    It's wonderfully unclear!

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    Phew....I thought it may have been just me!
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
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    This is the part that bothers me as it says nothing of RAS

    Q. If I am on patrol and observe a subject carrying a firearm openly on their hip
    on a public sidewalk, can I stop them and run their information through a
    records check?
    A. Yes. The member may conduct an investigatory stop. The member should
    use their best judgment in determining if the subject should be questioned
    and released or other factors are involved and the subject should be placed
    under arrest and transported to the appropriate detention facility.

    BUT the next part down says NOT to Enforce Department Memorandum 14-04 which the ABOVE text was copied from note Daily informant is the KC MO PD daily newsletter in which the BELOW was copied from so it seems pretty clear to me that KC MO PD is to STAND DOWN and NOT enforce the OC KC City Council passed a few months ago.

    September 12, 2014
    Do NOTenforce BAN on 'Operi Carry'
    In August the City of Kansas City amended Ordinance 50-261 to prohibit
    openly carrying a firearm readily capable of lethal use. Due to recent action
    by the Missouri General Assembly, that provision of Ordinance 50-261 is no
    longer enforceable. For this reason, Department Memorandum 14-04
    entitled "Open Carry of a Firearm" has been rescinded.
    Members are reminded of the possibility that all subjects contacted at a
    scene may be in possession of a firearm. Officers should use discretion and
    their best judqrpent when making a determination on the best course of
    action depending on the totality of the circumstances.
    Last edited by Renegadez; 10-20-2014 at 02:52 PM.

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegadez View Post
    This is the part that bothers me as it says nothing of RAS

    Q. If I am on patrol and observe a subject carrying a firearm openly on their hip
    on a public sidewalk, can I stop them and run their information through a
    records check?
    A. Yes. The member may conduct an investigatory stop. The member should
    use their best judgment in determining if the subject should be questioned
    and released or other factors are involved and the subject should be placed
    under arrest and transported to the appropriate detention facility.

    BUT the next part down says NOT to Enforce Department Memorandum 14-04 which the ABOVE text was copied from note Daily informant is the KC MO PD daily newsletter in which the BELOW was copied from so it seems pretty clear to me that KC MO PD is to STAND DOWN and NOT enforce the OC KC City Council passed a few months ago.

    September 12, 2014
    Do NOTenforce BAN on 'Operi Carry'
    In August the City of Kansas City amended Ordinance 50-261 to prohibit
    openly carrying a firearm readily capable of lethal use. Due to recent action
    by the Missouri General Assembly, that provision of Ordinance 50-261 is no
    longer enforceable. For this reason, Department Memorandum 14-04
    entitled "Open Carry of a Firearm" has been rescinded.
    Members are reminded of the possibility that all subjects contacted at a
    scene may be in possession of a firearm. Officers should use discretion and
    their best judqrpent when making a determination on the best course of
    action depending on the totality of the circumstances.
    The first document is from 8/20/14....prior to the override. The second set of docs is subsequently afterwards. The policy changed with the override. The first doc is basically worthless....it tells them what to do prior to SB656; the second is their thoughts after SB656 was overrode.
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    The first document is from 8/20/14....prior to the override. The second set of docs is subsequently afterwards. The policy changed with the override. The first doc is basically worthless....it tells them what to do prior to SB656; the second is their thoughts after SB656 was overrode.
    True, but it's so unclear in that doc that I bet a lot of officers will still be stopping people like it says they should in the earlier doc.
    "Somebody ever tries to kill you, you try and kill em right back!" - Captain Malcolm Reynolds

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oramac View Post
    True, but it's so unclear in that doc that I bet a lot of officers will still be stopping people like it says they should in the earlier doc.

    Don't doubt it a bit.
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    The first document is from 8/20/14....prior to the override. The second set of docs is subsequently afterwards. The policy changed with the override. The first doc is basically worthless....it tells them what to do prior to SB656; the second is their thoughts after SB656 was overrode.
    Red Baron correct the first is actually a copy of DEPARTMENT MEMORANDUM which is to be considered a legal document. The second is an informal article in the KC MO PD morning news letter folowed up by internal email saying DO NOT DO this I am not sure if any legal standing that has... As In hey Sarge i never got the memo.... So.. I busted this guy for carrying a firearm. I would have liked to seen alot clearer stance but it is what it is for now. I will file this in the wallet while OC'ing until something better comes along.

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    "officer safety is paramount"...

    Not to ME !

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    Just wondering what was in the HUGE REDACTED space!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegadez View Post
    Just wondering what was in the HUGE REDACTED space!!!
    Probably nothing sinister actually. If I had to guess, it's probably just a bunch of email addresses or something like that.
    "Somebody ever tries to kill you, you try and kill em right back!" - Captain Malcolm Reynolds

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oramac View Post
    Probably nothing sinister actually. If I had to guess, it's probably just a bunch of email addresses or something like that.
    What Oramac stated and/or info on current open cases.....nevertheless, redacted info usually raises an eyebrow about what is there but can't be seen.
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
    ~Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegadez View Post
    I received the info I request on open Carry in KC MO see attached PDF for info I received.
    Good set of records...did u have to pay anything for these?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    What a jumbled up mess of documents.

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    Page 5..."Would you please the officers in your division." ...maybe not a bad deal for the officers, depending on who is doing the pleasing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
    Page 5..."Would you please the officers in your division." ...maybe not a bad deal for the officers, depending on who is doing the pleasing.
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

    μολὼν λαβέ

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    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegadez View Post
    I received the info I request on open Carry in KC MO see attached PDF for info I received.
    Request the info again, this time only the official department memo stuff, not any of that spam contained in the e-mail chain. Also, pose a question regarding the intoxicated folks can't possess a firearm as it relates to the actual statutes. It seems that everything past the second comma in RSMo 571.030.1(5) is ignored. Also, how do they square 571.030.1(5) with 571.030.5. What is the "policy" as it relates to private property.

    Is there case law regarding the entirety of 571.030.1(5)? Any legal beagles out there?

    Im gunna pose this question to my state rep and the future senator. I'll let ya know what the response is.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Request the info again, this time only the official department memo stuff, not any of that spam contained in the e-mail chain. Also, pose a question regarding the intoxicated folks can't possess a firearm as it relates to the actual statutes. It seems that everything past the second comma in RSMo 571.030.1(5) is ignored. Also, how do they square 571.030.1(5) with 571.030.5. What is the "policy" as it relates to private property.

    Is there case law regarding the entirety of 571.030.1(5)? Any legal beagles out there?

    Im gunna pose this question to my state rep and the future senator. I'll let ya know what the response is.
    MMM EErrrr OC I am not sure what you just asked!!! It all sounded like legal speak to to me. I am not sure about after the comma or how any of this relates as far as private property I always thought you could OC on your own property regardless of any laws but I am again not fully educated in all the laws. I did dig this up on the statues i do not now if this well help solve any questions.

    http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710000030.HTM

    To me it seems the KC city council has not really done anything to change the ban law they put in effect legally. I am not sure a "memo" to the KC MO PD telling them to ignore it is the same as taking the law off the books by whatever process that entails to become compliant with the SB656 law.

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    They did change the ordinance on 10/9 to make OC legal with a CCW permit. Apparently they didn't tell the police force...

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    is there a copy online I can download or look at to keep handy just in case an officer failed to get the "memo"? Thanks

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    Regular Member redhawk44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegadez View Post
    MMM EErrrr OC I am not sure what you just asked!!! It all sounded like legal speak to to me. I am not sure about after the comma or how any of this relates as far as private property I always thought you could OC on your own property regardless of any laws but I am again not fully educated in all the laws. I did dig this up on the statues i do not now if this well help solve any questions.

    http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710000030.HTM

    To me it seems the KC city council has not really done anything to change the ban law they put in effect legally. I am not sure a "memo" to the KC MO PD telling them to ignore it is the same as taking the law off the books by whatever process that entails to become compliant with the SB656 law.
    Here is the new site

    http://moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/statutesAna.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by redhawk44 View Post
    Interesting! I hadn't realized they put up a new site. Especially since the old site is still active as well.....
    "Somebody ever tries to kill you, you try and kill em right back!" - Captain Malcolm Reynolds

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