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CPL = Anti Gun

Plan B

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Thank you.

In theory you're right but I can't see how thats going to happen without a bloodbath. Can you image the battle if you get OCers started fighting police and feds with all the military gear they have? Be quite short and huge loss of life. NOT what we need at all.

Then, they were called redcoats, now, the term fedcoats is starting to appear regularly.

IMO this is the reason that DOJ backed down at the ranch. .

The ranch was our warning to the US government. Fergusen was their answer. The militia members proved without a doubt that they are full of hot air. There is never going to be an American Revolution because the only people that could fight one, pu**ied out. There has never in history been a more obvious show of the tyranny of the American police state, that there was down there. American patriots showed their true colors this time, no wonder their flag is yellow.
 

rightwinglibertarian

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Then, they were called redcoats, now, the term fedcoats is starting to appear regularly.



The ranch was our warning to the US government. Fergusen was their answer. The militia members proved without a doubt that they are full of hot air. There is never going to be an American Revolution because the only people that could fight one, pu**ied out. There has never in history been a more obvious show of the tyranny of the American police state, that there was down there. American patriots showed their true colors this time, no wonder their flag is yellow.

While not the most G rated way of putting it, I agree. Everyone in content to talk bu those that have the means won't act and those that can and will are marginalized and censored for basically being patriots and defending freedom. If as I seem to be seeing, there would not be a bloodbath and huge loss of life, then by all means stand up for the Constitution by any legal means possible. Shame it's not possible organize such rallies here but defying tyranny isnt allowed. We must accept the slavery we are under and use largely noneffective means to fight a gigantic battle Long as people are convinced they are fighting the battle it matters not whether they are or not, most (even patriots) will be content.
 

WalkingWolf

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What you are not understanding is, for there to be a revolution there has to be a blood bath. As ugly as that sounds until there is a large scale assault on the people by the government the masses will not react. Ferguson not only was it a local matter, it was not a blood bath. There was not even near the devastation of the Miami and LA riots. Which both did get attention of the public and the feds. Both incidents resulted in the conviction of police officers, Katrina also resulted in the conviction of police officers, and the courts stepped in on a illegal gun grab.

If you think that a simple demonstration is going to achieve a large scale change you are sadly mistaken. The history of other countries revolutions and our own should be a wake up call, it is never pretty.
 

rightwinglibertarian

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What you are not understanding is, for there to be a revolution there has to be a blood bath.

I think the Bundy Ranch shows it doesn't have to be and shows armed Patriots can act with restraint. Far as I know they had the firepower to take many of the trespassers out, yet didnt because they knew full well the result, Take that scenario and spread it nationwide and then what? A government that realizes the People mean business without loss of life. I have a feeling I will see revolution in my lifetime and my feelings are incredibly mixed. On the one hand freedom is precious and should be defended and yet life is just as precious
 

WalkingWolf

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I think the Bundy Ranch shows it doesn't have to be and shows armed Patriots can act with restraint. Far as I know they had the firepower to take many of the trespassers out, yet didnt because they knew full well the result, Take that scenario and spread it nationwide and then what? A government that realizes the People mean business without loss of life. I have a feeling I will see revolution in my lifetime and my feelings are incredibly mixed. On the one hand freedom is precious and should be defended and yet life is just as precious

Thomas Jefferson said:
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

The Bundy Ranch is one incident and the government avoided violence not because of "precious" lives, but because of backlash. All in all it was a propaganda nightmare for the administration, outside of that it accomplished little. The march to remove rights continues. Jefferson was a wise man, in his time and if living ours. He got it right.
 

Plan B

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Sad thing is, that the people could crush this oppressive force now, rather quickly but they don't realize it.
 

Grapeshot

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Sad thing is, that the people could crush this oppressive force now, rather quickly but they don't realize it.

This thread is degenerating - gone from permits to insurrection - not acceptable. Stay on topic please.

"WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts."
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules
 

Grapeshot

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The American Revolution was illegal.
That is true, but this isn't a history forum.

Our goal and limits here are defined by the words of John Pierce (paraphrased) - "We promote and defend the right to open carry handguns as we go about our normal everyday lives." That then leads us to the art of public relations and how we are perceived by others - we are the good guys and obey the laws.

All else beyond the basic tenet(s) of OCDO are w/few exceptions off topic and/or rule violations.
 

rightwinglibertarian

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This thread is degenerating - gone from permits to insurrection - not acceptable. Stay on topic please.

"WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts."
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

The American Revolution was illegal.

That is true, but this isn't a history forum.

Our goal and limits here are defined by the words of John Pierce (paraphrased) - "We promote and defend the right to open carry handguns as we go about our normal everyday lives." That then leads us to the art of public relations and how we are perceived by others - we are the good guys and obey the laws.

All else beyond the basic tenet(s) of OCDO are w/few exceptions off topic and/or rule violations.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. I believe a look at the terms and conditions might be a good idea. We cannot properly defend against violations against 2A rights if we do not acknowledge and tackle the other issues. The very fabric of American culture hangs on not just 2A rights but 1st, fourth and 5th, which are regularly violated. In my opinion those who sweep such things under the carpet are part of the problem.

We need to understand what is and is not law else we simply become slaves. The final authority is the Constitution. Not a judge that may or may not violate their oath, not an LEO and not a city official. If we all educate each other on what is and is not law Constitutionally, we will all be far better off rather than accept infringements of many Constitutional Amendments
 

Plan B

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That is true, but this isn't a history forum.

Our goal and limits here are defined by the words of John Pierce (paraphrased) - "We promote and defend the right to open carry handguns as we go about our normal everyday lives." That then leads us to the art of public relations and how we are perceived by others - we are the good guys and obey the laws.

All else beyond the basic tenet(s) of OCDO are w/few exceptions off topic and/or rule violations.

Well, we are making history. I dont mean to sound cliche

One thing I can say about this forum and its moderators, you are better that those anti gun pages. If you say something they dont like or disagree with, the people or posts are deleted hidden or banned. Kudos to all of you people. Seriously, props.

I'm afraid that the cited rule may become impossible to employ practically here, or anywhere else. At the current rate of decadence, the idea of any form of lawful gun ownership in this country is going to be a....history lesson.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Grapeshot

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Well, we are making history. I dont mean to sound cliche

One thing I can say about this forum and its moderators, you are better that those anti gun pages. If you say something they dont like or disagree with, the people or posts are deleted hidden or banned. Kudos to all of you people. Seriously, props.

I'm afraid that the cited rule may become impossible to employ practically here, or anywhere else. At the current rate of decadence, the idea of any form of lawful gun ownership in this country is going to be a....history lesson.

We try to moderate with a light hand, informing and redirecting allows the offender to adjust their future responses/posts with a measure of grace. The goal being to retain and make more effective those who are of a mind to further their RKBA, particularly OC.

Patience is shown to the CC only persons (it is their right to chose) and even to the antis when they deem to post. Responding to the latter is good practice and lets the world see our facts versus their fiction.

While we have some more stringent means of moderation available from infraction points to complete banning. Points are not often awarded w/o a warning of some type. Banning is quite rare except for blatant spammers and extreme cases of egregious conduct.

Actually I think if you look at the growth and acceptance of guns for self-defense across the country, you will see that we are winning, not losing.

GIF map showing growth of right to carry since 1986:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Rtc.gif

Look at the drop down menu for OCDO maps - note some are being reworked:
http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=101

Shall issue states are now all but a small handful:
http://www.handgunlaw.us/

I say again with a rousing cheer - we are winning !
 
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WalkingWolf

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I don't know if I would call it winning, we are making strides. But most of the strides are not in the court room so they are not long lasting and they are not based on the constitution. They are based on laws allowing us to get permission from the government to rights, thus making them privileges. As what can be given with a stroke of the pen and the federal, state, local government can be taken away just as easily. It only takes a shift in public sentiment, and a shift in power in congress or state legislatures.

Right now IMO how rights foundation are built on a house of cards, not a solid foundation. I agree that we have more privileges then we had in the past, but let's not delude ourselves that they are recognized as rights, and that they cannot be gone in a flash. The only way we will have semi permanent rights is with solid sound court decisions, not the legislatures. Actually over the long run the may be doing us more harm than good, because many settle for cake, instead of holding out for food of substance.

I predict if Hillary is elected we will see a major shift in politics, and more important at the court level. Watch those strides disappear quickly. I do not advocate for overthrow or breaking laws. Mostly because what we end up with will most likely not be better. But I am a realist and I realize at the way we are going about fighting gun control it is not if we lose it is when.
 
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Plan B

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GIF map showing growth of right to carry since 1986:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Rtc.gif

Look at the drop down menu for OCDO maps - note some are being reworked:
http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=101

Shall issue states are now all but a small handful:
http://www.handgunlaw.us/

I say again with a rousing cheer - we are winning !

Thanks Its appreciated.
I will look at the links. But before I do, on a kneejerk seeing the first link I type this. Growth of carry ince 1986...WTF?!? I'm talking about do we have more, or do we have less right to carry since 1786, not 1986 lol. Since the decade following 1776, I'd say we have fewer firearms rights.
 

Plan B

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8 years of Hillary, and I think we might have to delete that whole "law abiding only" rule. You might be able to carry a single shot buckshot .22lr that has to be reloaded by the state polcie department, and can only be fired by a person wearing a coded ring.
 

Grapeshot

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Thanks Its appreciated.
I will look at the links. But before I do, on a kneejerk seeing the first link I type this. Growth of carry ince 1986...WTF?!? I'm talking about do we have more, or do we have less right to carry since 1786, not 1986 lol. Since the decade following 1776, I'd say we have fewer firearms rights.
Things went down hill in a hand basket with the Jim Crow laws in the 1800s, then further with the high profile crime syndicate murders and robberies into the 20th century. You don't turn all of that around in one day. BTW - the efforts didn't start in 1986, that was just the date the author chose as a base to show the most recent growth.

Some people just complain about a glass being half empty. Others see it as half full now and help to fill it a little bit more each day.
 

rightwinglibertarian

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Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
827
Location
Seattle WA
Well, we are making history. I dont mean to sound cliche

One thing I can say about this forum and its moderators, you are better that those anti gun pages. If you say something they dont like or disagree with, the people or posts are deleted hidden or banned. Kudos to all of you people. Seriously, props.

I'm afraid that the cited rule may become impossible to employ practically here, or anywhere else. At the current rate of decadence, the idea of any form of lawful gun ownership in this country is going to be a....history lesson.

I don't know if I would call it winning, we are making strides. But most of the strides are not in the court room so they are not long lasting and they are not based on the constitution. They are based on laws allowing us to get permission from the government to rights, thus making them privileges. As what can be given with a stroke of the pen and the federal, state, local government can be taken away just as easily. It only takes a shift in public sentiment, and a shift in power in congress or state legislatures.

Right now IMO how rights foundation are built on a house of cards, not a solid foundation. I agree that we have more privileges then we had in the past, but let's not delude ourselves that they are recognized as rights, and that they cannot be gone in a flash. The only way we will have semi permanent rights is with solid sound court decisions, not the legislatures. Actually over the long run the may be doing us more harm than good, because many settle for cake, instead of holding out for food of substance.

I predict if Hillary is elected we will see a major shift in politics, and more important at the court level. Watch those strides disappear quickly. I do not advocate for overthrow or breaking laws. Mostly because what we end up with will most likely not be better. But I am a realist and I realize at the way we are going about fighting gun control it is not if we lose it is when.

I'm afraid this rings very true. We must accept what is or give up.

The fact is many government organisations act like criminals

The fact is judges make rulings that violate the constitution and therefore have no right to make

The fact is the system in general accepts these to be laws and will act accordingly

We've got to decide if what is, is the Constitutions authority or whether it is LEOs, judges and AGs opinion. If it's the latter we may as well lay down our arms and surrender now. We can't stick our head in the sand and pretend that real progress is being made. It isn't. As Walkingwolf quite rightly stated

They are based on laws allowing us to get permission from the government to rights, thus making them privileges. As what can be given with a stroke of the pen and the federal, state, local government can be taken away just as easily. It only takes a shift in public sentiment, and a shift in power in congress or state legislatures.

A right is absolute and can only be taken away once a person has been found guilty of a crime. The Constitution gives us the rights. 4th, 5th and as focused on here on OCDO 2A rights. Until we realize that these are rights that cannot lawfully be taken away, I fear the progress made will only be token progress to 'shut us up.'
 

Plan B

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We've got to decide if what is, is the Constitutions authority or whether it is LEOs, judges and AGs opinion. If it's the latter we may as well lay down our arms and surrender now. We can't stick our head in the sand and pretend that real progress is being made. It isn't. As Walkingwolf quite rightly stated



A right is absolute and can only be taken away once a person has been found guilty of a crime. The Constitution gives us the rights. 4th, 5th and as focused on here on OCDO 2A rights. Until we realize that these are rights that cannot lawfully be taken away, I fear the progress made will only be token progress to 'shut us up.'

Exactly. Thats one thing that has always bugged me about this forum. I have been censored and deleted under this "advocate for law abiding" rule a couple times, and it's almost always been because I was upholding the supreme law, while advocating the duty of a free man to break the superficial one. The law was written in violation of the authors oath, nullifying the persons written ideas and authority. The law cannot be enforced without breaking yet another oath. People have forgotten their duties to their nation and everyday people are imprisoned under the threat of rape for nothing more than exercising a right that was supposed to be protected by those who imprisoned him. Something is really really wrong with that. Might get censored for pointing out WHO is doing these dirty deeds.
 
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Primus

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Exactly. Thats one thing that has always bugged me about this forum. I have been censored and deleted under this "advocate for law abiding" rule a couple times, and it's almost always been because I was upholding the supreme law, while advocating the duty of a free man to break the superficial one. The law was written in violation of the authors oath, nullifying the persons written ideas and authority. The law cannot be enforced without breaking yet another oath. People have forgotten their duties to their nation and everyday people are imprisoned under the threat of rape for nothing more than exercising a right that was supposed to be protected by those who imprisoned him. Something is really really wrong with that. Might get censored for pointing out WHO is doing these dirty deeds.
Paragraphs are your friend. My friend.
 
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