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IF 594 passes

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,241
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
As I read I-591, what I see is that the state would only be allowed to enact background checks up to the level required by Federal law but nowhere does it require the state to comply with Federal requirements. I'm not seeing how having a limit in place is worse than no limit at all. I'm curious as to how many people here have actually read the real text of I-591.

Regarding confiscation, who really cares if a law is passed that repeats what the Constitution says, I fail to see how that makes it a a bad law.

This is almost like pre-emption. Washington may have a law as strong as it wants as long as it does not exceed the federal standard(non-existent at this time).

594 may very well pass. I saw outsiders organizing churches full of people into the 594 fantasy. Sad. 591 would, at least, put a brake on the outside influence. Where is Ghandi when we need him?

The Ghandi Rule: as quoted in the Seattle Times, May 15, 2001, the Dalai Lama said:
If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun. Not at the head, where a fatal wound might result. But at some other body part, such as a leg.
 

()pen(arry

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2010
Messages
735
Location
Seattle, WA; escaped from 18 years in TX
This is almost like pre-emption. Washington may have a law as strong as it wants as long as it does not exceed the federal standard(non-existent at this time).

There is a meaningful and Constitutionally-critical difference, in that preemption is a restriction imposed by the state upon its subdivisions, whereas 591 would be the willful adoption by the state of federal restrictions upon itself. Whatever your view of this specific case, is that a precedent you want to set? Would that be strategic?

The Ghandi Rule: as quoted in the Seattle Times, May 15, 2001, the Dalai Lama said:
If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun. Not at the head, where a fatal wound might result. But at some other body part, such as a leg.

Is it Gandhi or the Dalai Lama? Regardless, the metaphor in this case would actually be that with the State of Washington pointing a gun at us, we choose to shoot ourselves in the leg.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
"It is unlawful for any government agency to require background checks on the recipient of a firearm unless a uniform national standard is required."

This is the text from 591, that prevented me from voting for it.
This can be construed to mandate that our state agents would have to comply with a federal version of 594 if done. Uniformity also smacks of a furtherance, that A) the feds are the superior and states are nothing but a province B) a destruction of the 10th amendment
 

mikeyb

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
554
Location
Bothell
If 594 passes... i'm gonna look into moving to Montana.

Everytime I read the bill I get pissed off. It's so f**king stupid. I had to edumacate some yutes on FB on what this initiative will do if passed. "Guns are dangerous" was their basic support structure. :banghead:
 

44Brent

Regular Member
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
772
Location
Olympia, WA
This can be construed to mandate that our state agents would have to comply with a federal version of 594 if done. Uniformity also smacks of a furtherance, that A) the feds are the superior and states are nothing but a province B) a destruction of the 10th amendment

I disagree -- there is absolutely no way this could possibly construe that this creates a NEW requirement for the State of Washington ]to comply with a so-called "federal version of 594", by anyone who has passed basic elementary reading skills. Even a 6th grader could figure this one out.

If the U.S. Congress or President infringes on states rights, they are going to do it with or without reading a state law.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
This can be construed to mandate that our state agents would have to comply with a federal version of 594 if done. Uniformity also smacks of a furtherance, that A) the feds are the superior and states are nothing but a province B) a destruction of the 10th amendment

I disagree -- there is absolutely no way this could possibly construe that this creates a NEW requirement for the State of Washington ]to comply with a so-called "federal version of 594", by anyone who has passed basic elementary reading skills. Even a 6th grader could figure this one out.

If the U.S. Congress or President infringes on states rights, they are going to do it with or without reading a state law.


"It is unlawful for any government agency to require background checks on the recipient of a firearm unless a uniform national standard is required."

Yes plain english right there unless a uniform national standard is required.
Our state agents are not required to enforce state law. This can be construed that they would be.
You attempt at insulting falls flat, I know folks who are a lot smarter than both of us who read it the same way.
The actions of what the feds do or do not do is irrelevant to my comment.
There are those who believe that federal law is the supreme law over the states. I do not and nothing in the constitution backs that up with the exception to the limited enumerated powers.
 
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sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
It is very clear that the majority of voters in Washington, the legislature and Washington courts do not believe that,howerver. Otherwise, marijuana would not be legal in this state, correct? Washington legalized marijuana by a majority vote and neither the legislature nor any court has overturned it despite that fact that it is still 99% illegal by Federal law. So why would those same voters, legislators and courts think that I-591 would require Washington to abide by Federal firearms laws?

That goes along with my point. If they worded the marijuana bill to have a clause like Unless the feds say so......what would have become of marijuana legalization, as it is now our agents are not obligated to enforce federal law in that regard.

I know that often times we get caught up in the is ought/fallacy, many will point out what is, and rightfully so. The feds have taken tremendous amount of unconstitutional power. Than many like myself will point out what ought to be, the feds remaining in there constitutional restrictions. My is that if we accept what is, what ought to be will never happen.

Also why I say is construed is not necessarily by me but by the courts (yet if I can see how it can be, I am pretty sure statist will grasp onto that even quicker), the 2A can't be clearer than how it is yet look how many infringements the courts have allowed upon it. The whole constitution for that matter is pretty clear about the enumerated powers, yet the courts and the powers to be have construed and taken things out of context to grant unconstitutional powers and call it constitutional.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
The bottom line is vote our conscience, I can only explain why I won't vote or didn't vote for 591. I was pretty much doctor no and NOTA on this ballet. Repeal all tax increases and no to any more. And a local dog got my voter over our horrible unopposed prosecutor.
 

END_THE_FED

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2010
Messages
925
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
Where was the 2nd amendment Foundation? Where was the NRA? Where was the GOA? Why were there no T.V. ads? Why were there no radio or print ads? A lot of "pro-gun" folks probably voted yes out of ignorance, thinking it applied only to sales. Not realizing it would criminalize something as simple as taking your friends shooting. I know several gun owners who didn't know that it effected things like loans or taking people shooting until I told them. We could have benefited greatly if the 2nd amendment foundation, NRA, GOA ran some ads to educate folks.

I am not a member of any of these groups. I am curious whether or not these groups even sent letters to their members to educate them about this awful law.
 

44Brent

Regular Member
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
772
Location
Olympia, WA
I am not a member of any of these groups. I am curious whether or not these groups even sent letters to their members to educate them about this awful law.

You just answered your own question of "Where was the 2nd amendment Foundation? Where was the NRA? Where was the GOA?" I certainly received warnings from GOA and NRA.

The full text of the initiative was published in the voter's guide. Is it not the responsibility of each citizen to READ the thing on which they are voting?

Here's my observation: the initiative might be in conflict with other parts of the law relating to community property ownership between married people.
 
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ghosthunter

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
283
Location
MOUNT VERNON, Washington, USA
That's how I see it, 594 was a test to see if big money could beat the gun lobby.
This is just the start there will be a like 594 Initative on the ballot every year now. They taste blood and they will not stop.

I think one of the first things you will see next is a move to ban open carry. Within the next two years.
And a move to hold gun owners responsible for their gun storage.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Washington is a blue state, that means it is progressive. I doubt that money was a major factor. Money will not sway people who are not dumb enough to fall for the lame law. Sorry you have more gun control, hopefully your state will not remain blue.

The fact is background checks do not work. The idea that a criminal would go through a background check to sell or buy a firearm is laughable. That is why they are criminals. But in Blue states the majority believe in Utopia.
 

theflea19

New member
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
9
Location
Bothell Washington
Guns gifted before measure

just wondering since both measures passed what I will need to do with 2 guns my dad gifted to me a year ago.






The fact is background checks do not work. The idea that a criminal would go through a background check to sell or buy a firearm is laughable. That is why they are criminals. But in Blue states the majority believe in Utopia.[/QUOTE]
 

Alpine

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
671
Location
Idaho
Anyone know a link to a pie chart showing the donors/donations for 594?
 

ardent

Newbie
Joined
Nov 5, 2014
Messages
5
Location
washington
just wondering since both measures passed what i will need to do with 2 guns my dad gifted to me a year ago.


You don't need to do anything unless you transfer them.



The fact is background checks do not work. The idea that a criminal would go through a background check to sell or buy a firearm is laughable. That is why they are criminals. But in blue states the majority believe in utopia.
[/quote]
 

ardent

Newbie
Joined
Nov 5, 2014
Messages
5
Location
washington
How would anyone know if I ever gave them to someone else?

Don't think of this in terms of how it can potentially affect you. Think of this in terms of how much future legislation will affect you, and what will that look like? Obviously enforcement is a total joke, but are you willing to risk becoming a felon for it?
 
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